Tank crashing suddenly?!

[Indiana Jones]

You neeed to go to the pet store and get an ammonia chelator product, that will inactivate the ammonia. Then massive ******* water change. 80%, repeat. 20% takes out only 1/5 of the problem, then the next 20% takes out only 1/5 of that problem. AKA two 20% water changes only removes 24% of the ammonia.

Thanks. Does this mean I'm starting my cycle all over again?

 

[TheBackAndForth]

Thanks. Does this mean I'm starting my cycle all over again?

It means your tank got more nutrient that can handle and you need to get that ammonia out of their then back down on your livestock,

for most newer hobbiest the culprit is actually overfeeding. Don't put any food in until you get it under control

That being said, you should be able to control this with ammonia chelators and large water changes. Make sure to oxygenate your water by stirring well and follow the chelator bottle directions closely, redose if you do a big water change proportionally

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I'm sorry for your losses.

 

[killer2001]

My theory: continuously dosing Stability caused reduce oxygen levels in the tank, killing some livestock. Since the tank is still new, it was not able to process all the ammonia from that death, this caused an ammonia spike on top of lowered oxygen levels, thus killing the remaining livestock in the tank.

 

[Tamberav]

Update- all of my fish died. Only thing alive now is the remaining CUC.

so sorry. I would recommend having salt and water on hand for emergencies. If the water is bad and you see fish gasping then putting them in a bucket with new saltwater to match salinity and temp and an air stone can be life saving.

 

[jabberwock]

Man, so sorry that this happened to you and your fish. How big is the tank? Regroup and come up with a plan to move forward slowly. Your LFS is just trying to sell you stuff. I would stop listening to their advice all together.

 

[MnFish1]

I have used stability with starting perhaps 50 tanks. It is basically a bacterial product to help with a rapid cycle. MY GUESS - is that it's a heterotrophic bacterial mixture - which can help process ammonia - with perhaps autotrophs as well - I have no clue. I also know that I have never had a problem with it. Stability should not cause a bacterial bloom - without cloudy water - OR excess nutrients. Here are a couple suggestions:

1. Is there any evidence of red gills (which may suggest ammonia damage)
2. Oxygen deprivation (unless its well underway and fatal) - seems to result in the fish gasping at the surface as compared to lying on the sand
3. Did you quarantine the fish?
4. Anything else you can think of? For example your CUC may have introduced a disease.
5. The fact that the fish died and the inverts did not - suggests a couple things - 1. Inverts can be tougher (they are used to being in tide pools, etc - so can tolerate more ammonia). 2. The CUC brought in a disease

IMHO - your LFS was not incorrect in recommending adding bacteria to a relatively new tank when you are adding a fair bit of new things. Stability is benign IMHO. That said I might ask your LFS for replacement fish. or at least a discount.

Sorry for the loss of your fish. it's a good idea - to have good testing kits - to at least look at what the levels of various things are when setting up a new tank. Again - sorry you had to go through this. Often 1 death - in a small tank - causes a cascade of problems.

 

[Indiana Jones]

so sorry. I would recommend having salt and water on hand for emergencies. If the water is bad and you see fish gasping then putting them in a bucket with new saltwater to match salinity and temp and an air stone can be life saving.

that is a great idea

 

[Indiana Jones]

Man, so sorry that this happened to you and your fish. How big is the tank? Regroup and come up with a plan to move forward slowly. Your LFS is just trying to sell you stuff. I would stop listening to their advice all together.

My tank is a Red Sea E170. It is 45 gallons total, 37 DT and 8 for sump. How long would you wait before adding the first fish? I don't want my cycle to regress if I can help it.

 

[sfin52]

Stability is like Dr times one and only and absolutely could cause a bacteria bloom. It removed oxygen you had deaths and thus the ammonia spike. Large water changes should help

 

[sfin52]

My theory: continuously dosing Stability caused reduce oxygen levels in the tank, killing some livestock. Since the tank is still new, it was not able to process all the ammonia from that death, this caused an ammonia spike on top of lowered oxygen levels, thus killing the remaining livestock in the tank.

Thats my thoughts too

 

[Indiana Jones]

I have used stability with starting perhaps 50 tanks. It is basically a bacterial product to help with a rapid cycle. MY GUESS - is that it's a heterotrophic bacterial mixture - which can help process ammonia - with perhaps autotrophs as well - I have no clue. I also know that I have never had a problem with it. Stability should not cause a bacterial bloom - without cloudy water - OR excess nutrients. Here are a couple suggestions:

1. Is there any evidence of red gills (which may suggest ammonia damage)
2. Oxygen deprivation (unless its well underway and fatal) - seems to result in the fish gasping at the surface as compared to lying on the sand
3. Did you quarantine the fish?
4. Anything else you can think of? For example your CUC may have introduced a disease.
5. The fact that the fish died and the inverts did not - suggests a couple things - 1. Inverts can be tougher (they are used to being in tide pools, etc - so can tolerate more ammonia). 2. The CUC brought in a disease

IMHO - your LFS was not incorrect in recommending adding bacteria to a relatively new tank when you are adding a fair bit of new things. Stability is benign IMHO. That said I might ask your LFS for replacement fish. or at least a discount.

Sorry for the loss of your fish. it's a good idea - to have good testing kits - to at least look at what the levels of various things are when setting up a new tank. Again - sorry you had to go through this. Often 1 death - in a small tank - causes a cascade of problems.

1. No evidence of red gills that I noticed. The fish were doing great a couple of days ago.
2. My return pump has been breaking the surface of the water, but oxygen deprivation could be possible.
3. I did not quarantine.
4. CUC could have brought the disease. LFS told me to stop doing weekly water changes. Today was my first water change in a few weeks.
5. All my fish died, and a couple hermits. The urchin is still losing a lot of spines. I'm not sure why.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[MnFish1]

1. No evidence of red gills that I noticed. The fish were doing great a couple of days ago.
2. My return pump has been breaking the surface of the water, but oxygen deprivation could be possible.
3. I did not quarantine.
4. CUC could have brought the disease. LFS told me to stop doing weekly water changes. Today was my first water change in a few weeks.
5. All my fish died, and a couple hermits. The urchin is still losing a lot of spines. I'm not sure why.

Thanks for all the advice.

Urchins tend to lose spines when they are 'sick'. I don't remember reading - do you happen to have an ammonia test kit?

 

[Rmckoy]

I appreciate the insight. Ill have to be more careful next time before dosing anything. I was told the Stability would help take care of my diatom/algae issue. The tank definitely appears cleaner, but sacrificing my fish isn't what I had in mind.

Imagine
After cycling the bacteria that’s there is capable of processing the ammonia produced by the livestock you have .
What ever bacteria is not used will starve and die and it will maintain its balance .
when adding more livestock if added too many too fast the bacteria can’t produce fast enough to process the new demand .
So the other side .
if you have a healthy amount of bacteria and added more . What’s going to happen ?
Something has to make room ?
Or a bacterial bloom will happen . When it does it uses up oxygen that the current livestock requires .

 

[Rmckoy]

Urchins tend to lose spines when they are 'sick'. I don't remember reading - do you happen to have an ammonia test kit?

Or when parameters fluctuate too much .
nutrients too high will also cause it .
but agree more often it’s when they’re not healthy or happy

 

[sfin52]

I appreciate the insight. Ill have to be more careful next time before dosing anything. I was told the Stability would help take care of my diatom/algae issue. The tank definitely appears cleaner, but sacrificing my fish isn't what I had in mind.

Stability is like Dr tims. It won't help with algea or anything like that

 

[vetteguy53081]

another thing to note, this morning my skimmer was going crazy with bubbles. Like out of control bubbles, it has never done this before.

Stability should be dosed occasionaly and not consistently why the skimmer is going nuts as you may have overwhelmed the biological cultures within tank.
On the ammonia, what test kits are you using as I suspect may be higher.
Have you done a water change? If not, do at least 30% in about 3 days.
What filters/filtration are you utilizing ?

 

[Indiana Jones]

Urchins tend to lose spines when they are 'sick'. I don't remember reading - do you happen to have an ammonia test kit?

I have the Red Sea Marine Care test kit. Ammonia dropped to 0 after doing large WC today.

 

[Indiana Jones]

Stability should be dosed occasionaly and not consistently why the skimmer is going nuts as you may have overwhelmed the biological cultures within tank.
On the ammonia, what test kits are you using as I suspect may be higher.
Have you done a water change? If not, do at least 30% in about 3 days.
What filters/filtration are you utilizing ?

I did a 30% WC today.
Filtration is just the standard filter sponge, and the skimmer. Also have carbon in the media rack.
I was adding 3 capfuls of Stability a day. Today was the last day to dose Stability according to the bottle directions. But I think your right, it may have been too much.

 

[jabberwock]

My tank is a Red Sea E170. It is 45 gallons total, 37 DT and 8 for sump. How long would you wait before adding the first fish? I don't want my cycle to regress if I can help it.

Could you post a picture of it? It will help determine how far along it might be. You can keep a cycle going without fish by "ghost feeding". This is feeding small amounts every few days to keep the bacteria alive. You need an ammonia test kit. I have no idea why the LFS would tell you to stop doing water changes. On a new tank, that just does not seem right. Weekly 10% to 20% water changes. Once your tank is much more mature, you can slow down on water changes. That might take 1 year. Give it a week or so, and do water changes every few days and monitor ammonia until there is none. Then you can add 1 fish. If that urchin dies, get it out of the tank because that will be a hot ammonia mess. You need to adopt a mindset of going slow and having patience. Don't do anything if nothing is wrong.