Tank cycle

[CostaRicanReefer]

I have seen some videos and some people online say that you can kickstart a cycle with dry rock and live sand and some added bacteria from products like turbostart or by mixing(in this case) dry rock and caribsea pink Fiji sand with my neighbours life rock and sand and add fish immediately to seed the cycle and corals after a month
Is there any benefits of doing this instead of a dry ghost feeding cycle
All this while using a master testing kit twice a day to check for parameters
Also can I snails and shrimp while doing a cycle kickstart or should I wait for a couple of weeks or so,
Can I use carbon, gfo or purigen at the start or would you recommend as a reaction to an off parameter of water like phosphates
On a side note is it ok for just doing 1.2 inches of sand instead of 2
Pounds of rock on a 22 gallon + 8 gallons of aio sump volume(i also plan on using a marinepure block)

 

[brandon429]

Do it oppositely, add fish after some time and stock early with some easy starter corals that will grow under pretty much any light

Experimenting with skip cycle reefing is ok, retail bac dosers are for that purpose and work well. There are many posts and articles about mass fish loss via disease in marine fish stocked without a quarantine/ fallow approach so that’s why delaying fish is best, time to research options and set up a chosen method. If someone was determined to use fish that can be done as well, I’d trust the refrigerated fritz based on Dr Reefs testing

Specifically in the fish disease forum there are a hundred examples of tanks who stocked fish last, 76 days later for a reason, which is why I'm referring the option to you. As soon as you input a quarantined fish into a bare reef, you violate that quarantine when you add a snail. Or a new rock. Or a five dollar chunk of zoanthids a month later for example unless they passed through qt as well. Additionally, lots of my nano reef friends don’t even use fish, so they indeed stocked all corals first, and last, its really not that controversial


We simply provide high-quality feed, spot fed to the corals and that makes up for the new rock

 

[CostaRicanReefer]

Do it oppositely, add fish after some time and stock early with some easy starter corals that will grow under pretty much any light

Experimenting with skip cycle reefing is ok, retail bac dosers are for that purpose and work well. There are many posts and articles about mass fish loss via disease in marine fish stocked without a quarantine/ fallow approach so that’s why delaying fish is best, time to research options and set up a chosen method. If someone was determined to use fish that can be done as well, I’d trust the refrigerated fritz based on Dr Reefs testing

So just so that I understand correctly, I can add corals before fish? why? this has been really confusing to me personally, I know how the nitrogen cycle works, and it seems like to just add bacteria, live rock and sand from an already established tank and then you can add a fish, wait around 2-3 weeks for the bacteria to be completely established and then proceed with more fish at a gradual rate, I want to do pretty much the method that some people are doing, that after adding the bacteria and some rock and sand from an already established tank mixed with their own live sand and dry rock they add fish, start to regularly check for parameters and waterchange at least once a day depending on your readings. would like to know if this is possible and safe, I also forgot to mention that I have a rodi filter for the tank as well

If so is there some easy soft corals or zoas that you recommend(no xenia please), and would like to know how can I tell good zoas from the ones that have palitoxin?

 

[Marco S]

I have never heard of anyone advising someone new to add coral first, (especially during a cycle). Everything I have read or seen lead me to the belief that you add corals to an established tank with consistent water parameters, so I would not recommend trying it.

As far as the quick cycle goes, follow the directions on the bottle. I have used Bio Spira and Fritz Turbo Start 900 successfully several times completing the cycle in 5 - 8 days every time, (well almost every time). I added fish the same day I added the bacteria and have not lost any due to Ammonia or Nitrite yet. I used Bio Spira with all my quarantine tanks with no sand or rock and added fish the same day. I never noticed any Ammonia at all testing every day. Around day 2 I started seeing Nitrite and it stuck around for 2 - 3 days, but never got high enough to harm the fish. Nitrate showed up around day 5 and as soon as the Nitrite went to 0 I added more fish and started adding meds for the QT process.

For my DT I did not use fish to cycle since they were not done with QT yet so I dosed Ammonia and used Fritz Turbo Start 900. I have 120 Lbs of Dry Life Rock, 40 lbs of Marco Rock, two large Marine Pure bricks, a box of the Marine Pure balls and 140 lbs of Fiji Pink Live Sand. That process did take a bit longer, (14 days) probably because I was dosing Ammonia slowly instead of the fish adding it consistently. Either way, it was done pretty quick and just in time for me to start adding my fish that had completed the QT process. I did not add any CUC until the algae started showing up which was a few more weeks after the tank cycled. It all worked out since I kept my inverts in QT for 76 days.

I have not added any coral yet, but have a lot of LPS, a few softies and 2 SPS in QT at the moment. I used my DT water, already seeded Marine Pure balls, sand and a few rocks to start the coral QT. I did add a bottle of Bio Spira as well, (just to be sure). I started adding coral the next day and tested religiously every day for the first month. I never saw any ammonia or Nitrite during that process. I was also testing DKH, Calcium and Magnesium and doing water changes to keep everything as consistent as possible. I use my DT water for water changes so they do not have much of a change when they finally go into the DT.

That is my experience with using bottled bacteria and I hope that is helpful. Whatever you decide to do, good luck! And welcome to R2R!!!

 

[SPR1968]

You might find these articles helpful to have a read through as they will answer many of your questions

The bacteria in bottles work and there is a thread on here somewhere about testing them. I’ve used ATM Colony to set up my tank without issues.

And I also wouldn’t add corals first, I would get your tank cycled and water parameters stable before adding them or they might not like it and will tell you very quickly.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-an-aquarium.306554/

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

And welcome to R2R, it’s great to have you with us!

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/



the recommend includes planning so you don’t lose your new setup to massive invasions, we have threads for those too and this recommend was coming from a few steps ahead planning. Today’s bottle bac lets you add fish first if you please, but the other way is better long term as we study actual example tanks by follow up patterns

If you want to stick some zoanthids and a candy coral up under lights in a system with rock, sand, bottle bac and you’d like to get started without a huge wait, we show that to not be as controversial as it’s being made to sound. Corals and a light clean up crew are less initial bioloading to a new system and therefore cause less early algae problems


Your real challenge isn’t the first bioloading you choose, it will be what your plan is when you get new dinos invasion challenge, or an early algae challenge. Have a good plan there
B

 

[Mastiffsrule]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/



the recommend includes planning so you don’t lose your new setup to massive invasions, we have threads for those too and this recommend was coming from a few steps ahead planning. Today’s bottle bac lets you add fish first if you please, but the other way is better long term as we study actual example tanks by follow up patterns

If you want to stick some zoanthids and a candy coral up under lights in a system with rock, sand, bottle bac and you’d like to get started without a huge wait, we show that to not be as controversial as it’s being made to sound. Corals and a light clean up crew are less initial bioloading to a new system and therefore cause less early algae problems


Your real challenge isn’t the first bioloading you choose, it will be what your plan is when you get new dinos invasion challenge, or an early algae challenge. Have a good plan there
B

Interesting thoughts. Alway like you views. Not saying it necessarily right or wrong, but would be neat to see a tank built like that.

The only downside that comes to my mind is a lot of the hardier soft coral could turn invasive. Not so much the candy or hammers. But zoa, paly and things like toadstool can take over. Just my experience. I put in palys and toadstools and other leathers in the begging and I quickly lost rock space.

I would think you’re not leaning towards putting in sps at that stage?

Just my thought.

Oops, hope all is well.

 

[brandon429]

I couldn’t see how it’s any different than the all plastic frag tanks that line the walkways of the massive reef conventions, instant setups tanks housing five grand in frags as long as you want them to, or simple nano reefs that are simply setup with either kind of rock and some starter corals and fish are never added.

The frag tanks were all plastic inserts in the dt. No rock, just a canister filter and the right light. If you feed these systems and change the water then they grow corals, not just hold them a few days. My lfs ran a plumbed frag tank for years where many frags had locked into place on the plastic grids and it was a sump with bioballs and then an all plastic frag tank

His tank will have a reef light, reef sand handling bioload just fine and some rocks. If he wants to add a simple coral first, the system doesn’t shut down and die any different than it did for the people skipping the cycle at the reef convention.

If my goal was to use acropora on day one of a build, it would be using live rock not dry rock for the assembly, then it wouldn’t matter. Live rock is as old as the previous tanks it came from, moving to another tank doesn’t start it over.

No starter coral ever harmed my reef and one can lift out the rocks as needed when things are and simply prune or re arrange as needed

I now believe fully we should build this reef, have a light on it that is proven from another thread to grow corals, do the skip cycle bottle bac start w wet sand, and add a candy coral lps those are ideal and awesome color.
Buy frozen rods reef feed or buy roti feast or roti pods or benepets reef, one of those will feed the corals fine a couple times a week in the morning, spot injected tiny amnt

Apparently it will be shocking to science if you pull this off, and I think you can.
B

 

[brandon429]

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/tank-tear-down-question.631127/

Need a plan so you aren’t redoing due to fish disease in a month

I envisioned you adding the qt fish awaiting use, then having to put every single other addition through 76 day fallow in a different tank in order to not mess up your first qt attempt. Many people nowadays stock out the tank first, then go fallow for 76 days -then- add the qt fish. I got the recommend idea from reading fish disease forum posts