Tank Cycling

[Davy Jones]

With all the knowledge and experience out there now, challenging some of the things we used to believe as "reefing law" What is the absolute most fool proof way to cycle a tank now days? I am going to be rebooting my red sea reefer tank in the next couple of months and would like to do it correctly to avoid some of the issues i had when i did the tank transfer.

This is my current thought:

Mixture of pukani and fiji rock from BRS. I plan on drilling and placing acryllic rods and epoxy into the rock for the structure.

45 LBS Tropic Eden reef flakes and 10 lbs of two little fishies live sand

I will try to buy a small-medium live rock from another reefer or the lfs, as well as use Dr Tims one and only (not to speed up the process but to add differing bacteria strains). Diversity in bacteria is a good thing ive learned Ill toss in a table shrimp around day 3 or so to provide nutrients.

After 2 weeks i will have the tank lit for 2 hours a day to start growing diatoms and let them eventually die off. Ill add a small clean up crew around the 3-4 week mark and maybe transfer over my clown fish or Kole tang shortly after.

Once i add the first fish, I will move the chaeto reactor from the temporary tank to this one. Likely around the 6 week mark or so.

Im hoping by around 8 weeks after being wet i can transfer over the rest of the livestock and shut down the temporary system.


I know the cycle is probably the most important thing to a successful tank long term so i would like to do it right this time. In the past i have moved a little too quickly but in this instance im not in a hurry since i have a second tank running.

PLEASE give me any advice or let me know things i can do better with this.

Thanks all!

 

[Brew12]

Your plan looks pretty good. I did the table shrimp method on my 120g system but wouldn't go that route again. I feel the best practice is to use pure ammonia as a food source to cycle the tank. This way you know exactly how much you are adding and how fast it is being processed. Any other method is just guesswork.

If you are interested I put my thoughts together on the subject here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-an-aquarium.306554/

 

[Nanologist]

Personally I would use pure ammonia instead of throwing decaying shrimp or food in. Not only is it much cleaner it's also much easier to measure and get an accurate amount in.

Dr. Tim has a product or you can use pure janitorial ammonia from Ace Hardware. I've used both very successfully in a fishless cycle. Usually just a drop or two per gallon to get 1-2ppm ammonia. There are quite a few ammonia calculators out there and Dr. Tims has all the info you'll need to use it.

http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Ammonium-Chloride-Solution-for-Fishless-Cycling_p_190.html

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957

*Edit - @Brew12 great minds think alike! I was just typing my response while you posted yours! [emoji6]

 

[Davy Jones]

Your plan looks pretty good. I did the table shrimp method on my 120g system but wouldn't go that route again. I feel the best practice is to use pure ammonia as a food source to cycle the tank. This way you know exactly how much you are adding and how fast it is being processed. Any other method is just guesswork.

If you are interested I put my thoughts together on the subject here.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cycling-an-aquarium.306554/

Awesome thread! I will read through it! Thank you!

Personally I would use pure ammonia instead of throwing decaying shrimp or food in. Not only is it much cleaner it's also much easier to measure and get an accurate amount in.

Dr. Tim has a product or you can use pure janitorial ammonia from Ace Hardware. I've used both very successfully in a fishless cycle. Usually just a drop or two per gallon to get 1-2ppm ammonia. There are quite a few ammonia calculators out there and Dr. Tims has all the info you'll need to use it.

http://store.drtimsaquatics.com/Ammonium-Chloride-Solution-for-Fishless-Cycling_p_190.html

http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1307957

*Edit - @Brew12 great minds think alike! I was just typing my response while you posted yours! [emoji6]

Got it, Pure ammonia is better then decaying shrimp!

Is there a better quality ammonia test than the API i have? or will it be sufficient for that test. I use red sea and hanna for everything else

 

[Brew12]

Is there a better quality ammonia test than the API i have? or will it be sufficient for that test. I use red sea and hanna for everything else

I feel the API is fine and it is what I use for ammonia and nitrite. It will accurately read zero and that is all you need to worry about imo. I don't see any reason that to pay any more than necessary for a test kit you may only use for a few days.

 

[beaslbob]

start the macro algae or chaeto reactor in the new tank as the very first thing.

Assuming worse case that there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria available, the chaeto will consume ammonia first then nitrate once the aerobic bacteria build up. resulting in at most a small short nitrate bump as opposed to the usual ammonia->nitrite->nitrate spikes.

Besides the chaeto will import aerobic bacteria to the new system.

my .02

 

[Davy Jones]

start the macro algae or chaeto reactor in the new tank as the very first thing.

Assuming worse case that there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria available, the chaeto will consume ammonia first then nitrate once the aerobic bacteria build up. resulting in at most a small short nitrate bump as opposed to the usual ammonia->nitrite->nitrate spikes.

Besides the chaeto will import aerobic bacteria to the new system.

my .02

Since i have all my livestock in a smaller tank, i am setting up the reactor on that one to maintain nutrients and keep things healthy until i move them over. It is more important to me that that tank stays healthy than the cycle be cut back a week or 2 in time

 

[Brew12]

start the macro algae or chaeto reactor in the new tank as the very first thing.

Assuming worse case that there is absolutely no aerobic bacteria available, the chaeto will consume ammonia first then nitrate once the aerobic bacteria build up. resulting in at most a small short nitrate bump as opposed to the usual ammonia->nitrite->nitrate spikes.

Besides the chaeto will import aerobic bacteria to the new system.

my .02

I'm a big fan of this recommendation and put macro algae in my tank when I start up a new QT.

Worst case, the chaeto doesn't have enough nutrients to grow and starts to die off. As it dies off it will release nutrients to at least slow the rate it fades. No real down side.

 

[brandon429]

one helpful detail for your new cycle is that you don't have to test for anything, so what test you use doesn't matter. If you take the arrangement you mentioned above, run it, wait 40 days, then do a large water change and start reefing, you'll be ready.

If you need to get things ready in two weeks, then test away and take chances with this or that kit. its nice to know that theres no way you couldn't cycle by day 40, with the specifics you mentioned, owing to what bacteria do on their own timeframe, we need not verify any of it so far. handy cyclers tip

other arrangements would take longer, yours is 40 for a few reasons.

 

[Davy Jones]

one helpful detail for your new cycle is that you don't have to test for anything, so what test you use doesn't matter. If you take the arrangement you mentioned above, run it, wait 40 days, then do a large water change and start reefing, you'll be ready.

If you need to get things ready in two weeks, then test away and take chances with this or that kit. its nice to know that theres no way you couldn't cycle by day 40, with the specifics you mentioned, owing to what bacteria do on their own timeframe, we need not verify any of it so far. handy cyclers tip

other arrangements would take longer, yours is 40 for a few reasons.

Nope, no need to run it in 2 weeks or anything crazy. Ideally ill purchase rock and scaping material towards teh middle of next month, and i wan tto have the tank wet by october 10th. The plan is then to move everything into the tank around december 10th or so. I am leaving on a 9 day vacation towards the end of january and would like to be stable in the larger aquarium before leaving.

 

[brandon429]

nice nice.

and, if you want to run that 40 day cycle setup we'd appreciate a digestion test verification before you stock the tank...if its API ran and reports anything but zero pls get a confirming non API kit lol

at day 40 and after as large of a water change as you can muster, spike the ammonia one last time until your system water reads about 1 ppm (using liquid ammonia and a calculator something like this one below)
http://www.fishforums.net/aquarium-calculator.htm
then retest in 24 hours, I bet its zero. If it reads .25, and you just made a .75 improvement in 24 hours, that motion signals complete cycling, the final .25 matters not. its API's fun stamp to confuse us, and then some kits are good agreed.

*caveat:

that final water change is something new that's coming about in cycling, not everyone used to do that. For two decades we have people reporting on their final wastewater numbers, after cycling with rotten shrimp and several eventual ppm's liquid ammonia...a real reef w never see that amount of straight bioloading in a 40 day window. The reasons cycles seem to stall (they do not, barring medication events, something nobody does in cycling) is because people are API reporting a bunch of wastewater where indeed a little nitrite might be present (but wont be if you test the clean condition tank)

we only care what ammonia does anyway, nitrite readings are not required in reefkeeping and nitrate is only for algae control tuning it has nothing to do with a cycle. only what ammonia does matters and it matters how long we have surfaces underwater--40 days in this case. Dr Tims w make yours comply before 40 days, but we like that general timeframe bc we can get the same ammonia ability across tanks without any testing, literally none at all.

If you owned no test kits, merely that online calc, some ammonia, some bottle bac, 40 days and a big water change still equals as cycled as someone who saliferted the entire process. they just however might be able to verify things by week 2.

 

[mcarroll]

I like ammonia better than rotting shrimp, but I can't get pure ammonia around here and I never figured out how folks can tell how much ammonia their fish will put off. How do they know what's the right amount?

I know folks make shrimp and ammonia work...I just wonder these things.

I guess I may be old school, but I build the bio-load the old way.....smallest critters to biggest....just a little at a time....all the way to the last fish. No ammonia spikes, no algae blooms, no problem. I think more or less what Brandon said.

 

[Davy Jones]

I guess I may be old school, but I build the bio-load the old way.....smallest critters to biggest....just a little at a time....all the way to the last fish. No ammonia spikes, no algae blooms, no problem. I think more or less what Brandon said.

I know what you mean, I know it is a short time frame but I will probably move the livestock in the temporary tank to the main tank over the course of a week or 2 at most once the main cycle is completed. I know with bacteria we should be looking at more than that time per fish addition but it's not realistic for my situation. I'll dose some bottled bac for those 2-3 weeks and do a larger w/c but I'm confident it'll be okay. The hardest part will be removing byropsis from the rock that has anemones and coral already on it before it goes into that tank

 

[Big G]

Consider placing a Seachem ammonia alert badge in your tank for the duration of your start up to final transfer of fish. Make sure to place it low in the tank away from bright light as the light may effect the accuracy. Enjoy the build. Cheers!

 

[mcarroll]

The hardest part will be removing byropsis from the rock that has anemones and coral already on it before it goes into that tank

Maybe consider removing the corals from the rock instead? If you've got the rock out, that seems like it could be the better option....gets the bryopsis rock separated so it can be treated separately too. Hypothetically an interesting option.

 

[Davy Jones]

Maybe consider removing the corals from the rock instead? If you've got the rock out, that seems like it could be the better option....gets the bryopsis rock separated so it can be treated separately too. Hypothetically an interesting option.

Most corals can be removed, but I have a zoas colony on one rock, and various anemones. The bubble tips are easy to get off but the rock flowers and maxi minis are not. Infact I ended up killing 2/3 maxi minis trying to move them into this tank

 

[mcarroll]

Not quite a universal plan then....