Tank cycling

[jdwmba88]

Do these seem like expected ammonia and nitrite levels after 3 weeks? I started with live sand, dry rock, and added a bottle of Seachem Stability. The LFS made it seem like I could add fish with in a day or 2 after adding the stability. That was 2 weeks ago.

 

[Mykawl]

Looks about right maybe a little on the long side considering live sand and adding Seachem stability, did you start your cycle with dosing 2ppm ammonia?

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

nothing out of the ordinary, a cycle will take as long as it takes, there is no hard and fast times, could be 2 weeks could be 2 months, you will find the ammonia goes down gradually and the nitrite will go to zero in a matter of a couple of days. patience is key, also don't bother with Stability, at best you will cycle a day or 2 faster, that's all

 

[Blitheran]

Im on day 39 things will take time

 

[jdwmba88]

Looks about right maybe a little on the long side considering live sand and adding Seachem stability, did you start your cycle with dosing 2ppm ammonia?

I didn't dose any ammonia

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

Just keep doing what you are doing, making sure there is always a source of ammonia and the tank will do the rest

 

[Mykawl]

I didn't dose any ammonia

You have to add a food source for the bacteria to grow from dr Tim’s “ammonium chloride” is only $5 and most widely used, another popular option is a dead shrimp from the grocery store and letting it rot. But you’ll need carbon cause it will stink.

Tanks nowadays should be able to cycle within a week for like $20 and instantly if you have nice live rock. Anyways if your getting impatient and have a measly $5 to spend buy some dr Tim’s “the one and only” Some more popular options are microbacter 7 by brightwell and turbostart900 or something.

Your general goal is to be able to dose 2ppm ammonia and have it zero out within 24 hours

Edit: I didn’t realize Seachem stability was all in one cycling product was wondering where your ammonia was coming from. You can just wait it out probably another week or add a different bacteria product, the more variety the better off your tank will be, another popular one I forget to mention is bio Spira

 

[jaxredsoxfan]

You have measurable nitrite, so things are moving along. Soon the nitrites will drop to 0 and the nitrates will show up. I'd just let it do its thing, just make sure it has some ammonia addition- could be a few pinches of flake every few days. You're on your way!

 

[Mykawl]

Lastly, once your ammonia zeros out some reefers consider the tank safe as nitrite is quite harmless to fish because of sciency stuff http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

[Mykawl]

Im on day 39 things will take time

Testing nitrate is ineffective until nitrite zeros out because of how the test kits work

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

Lastly, once your ammonia zeros out some reefers consider the tank safe as nitrite is quite harmless to fish

Nitrite IS poisonous to fish, please do not add fish until nitrite is zero

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

Testing nitrate is ineffective until nitrite zeros out because of how the test kits work

Nitrate is not dependant on Nitrite amount, if it is its the first ive heard of it and ive been doing things wrong for more years than I can remember

 

[Mykawl]

Unless I misread that study they observed no ill effects @3ppm and only 2 of 5 fish died @ 300ppm... there was difficulty breathing @ 33 ppm but this is highly irrelevant because no fish tank should get that high plus the cycle will stall @5ppm
also should we take this further and say people shouldn’t be running reef tanks unless they can maintain 0.1 nitrate? Since that’s how the ocean runs and we obviously know nitrate isnt ideal as well.

However I agree if you can be patient 0 nitrite is definitely ideal.

As for nitrate test kits being effected by the presence of nitrite is discussed here https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/no-nitrite-or-nitrate-during-cycle-week-3.309122/page-2
And here

Aquarium water test kits and testing methods

Aquarium water test kits are abundant. This is our overview of some common testing methods.

www.algone.com

~”Most nitrate test kits transform nitrates back into nitrites before measuring the combined values.”

If I’m wrong please point me in the right direction as this is my current understanding

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

Unless I misread that study they observed no ill effects @3ppm and only 2 of 5 fish died @ 300ppm... there was difficulty breathing @ 33 ppm but this is highly irrelevant because no fish tank should get that high plus the cycle will stall @5ppm
also should we take this further and say people shouldn’t be running reef tanks unless they can maintain 0.1 nitrate? Since that’s how the ocean runs and we obviously know nitrate isnt ideal as well.

Please do not take this the wrong way mate but I suggest you do some more research on nitrite and the nitrogen cycle, 3ppm nitrite would probably kill everything in the tank

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

”Most nitrate test kits transform nitrates back into nitrites before measuring the combined values.”

If this is true then its new to me, maybe someone from #reefsquad could clarify this

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

also should we take this further and say people shouldn’t be running reef tanks unless they can maintain 0.1 nitrate? Since that’s how the ocean runs and we obviously know nitrate isnt ideal as well.

I think the concensus nowadays is to have nitrate values above 5ppm. I have kept fowlr tanks for years with nitrate as high 100ppm with no ill effects on my fish, from what I can remember nitrate has to be about 400ppm to even start showing signs of distress in fish, however corals are different but still need nitrate present, to see thriving reef tanks with nitrates at 50ppm is not uncommon

 

[Mykawl]

Acute toxicity and sublethal effects of ammonia and nitrite for juvenile cobia Rachycentron canadum

Nitrogenous compounds can be toxic to aquatic animals especially when they are reared at high stocking densities. Cobia (Rachycentron canadum) is a fa…

www.sciencedirect.com

Here another study

I’ll link this again Incase you didn’t see it

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php#6

Or just skip to this

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php#6

 

[lapin]

Measuring:
There are 2 main methods for testing nitrates that can be called cadmium reduction and azo dye methods.
Both rely on converting nitrate to nitrite and then measuring nitrite. Therefore nitrate is actually measured indirectly. This can be confusing because it means that if nitrite is already present then that will be included in the nitrate estimate.
Some nitrate kits contain an inhibitor sometimes sulfamic acid that reacts with and removes nitrite. The resulting nitrate measurement is more accurate.
Test strips usually use the Azo dye method. The technical description is: "Nitrate is reduced to nitrite by a reducing agent. In the presence of an acidic buffer, the nitrite is converted to nitrous acid which diazotizes an aromatic amine, this coupled with N-(1-naphthyl)-ethylenediamine to form a red-violet azo dye".
The cadmium reduction method is used in some kits and photometer methods. Usually the reacted sample needs to be shaken a number of times and then left to stand before any measurements are taken. Read the instructions and make sure you are consistent so that results are more reliable. Technically the cadmium reduction method is: "Cadmium metal reduces nitrates in the sample to nitrite. The nitrite ion reacts in an acidic medium with sulfanilic acid to form an intermediate diazonium salt. The salt couples with gentisic acid to form an amber colored solution".
Test kits for nitrate like the Hanna Instruments HI3874 use the cadmium reduction method.

 

[leedsrhinojohn]

so basically it depends on which test kit you use?

 

[Mykawl]

Sorry for hijacking op’s thread, sorry for arguing @leedsrhinojohn hope we can be friends arguing makes me sick to my stomach ha but learning is prio. I’m only trying to inform and help but definitely 0 nitrite is ofcourse ideal you’ll see everyone stress the importance of patience and going slow with these reef tanks they’ve been super humbling to me and mines only a month old!

All that being said taking advice from people like @leedsrhinojohn with many years f experience is your best bet. Trial and error and subsequently experience seems to triump in fish keeping.

Only reason I suggested ignoring nitrate until nitrite is 0 is cause you’ll be needing all those tests in the future so don’t waste em although some people are very relaxed with nitrate but that’s another conversation. I just tested my LFS water and nitrate was 150+!!! Never seen a vial turn blood red like that before lol