Tank Establishing and Corals

[fishy4thomas]

So I want to add a mandarinfish to my tank, but its only been running for about 2 months now. I would add it in about 3 to 4 months, but everyone is saying I need to have an established tank. How long will that take or what are some signs? And also, does an established tank NEED corals?? Hope you guys can help #reefsquad

 

[fishguy242]

hi i would wait until more aged,j m opinion ,more will follow

 

[fishy4thomas]

hi i would wait until more aged,j m opinion ,more will follow

How long do you think is "aged"? 1 year? Under or over a year?

 

[fishguy242]

when tank is crawling with reproducing pods

 

[Fishbird]

Part of the reason it’s so hard, if not impossible to answer your question is because there are so many variables.

How big is your tank?

Do you have other copepod eating fish in the tank? (You will if you add the pink streaked wrasse or possum wrasse mentioned in the other thread)

Do you have a place for the copepods to breed, like a refugium? (I think you said you don’t)

Are you willing and able to culture pods? If not are you willing to add a bottle of copepods from algae barn every week or two to your tank?

Are you willing and able to get a captive bred mandarin and feed it several times a day with frozen food *and* supplement your tank with live copepods? (Read the articles on keeping mandarins on AlgaeBarn’s website. Captive bred fish might be willing to take prepared foods but they still have the short inefficient digestive tract that means they have to eat basically constantly.)

 

[fishy4thomas]

when tank is crawling with reproducing pods

Ok understood but i dont need corals right?

 

[Fishbird]

You don’t need corals to have a mandarin.

What if you asked for a HOB refugium for your birthday? Then you would have a place for your copepods to breed and you would be able to start working towards setting your tank up to support a mandarin in the future?

 

[fishy4thomas]

Part of the reason it’s so hard, if not impossible to answer your question is because there are so many variables.

How big is your tank?

Do you have other copepod eating fish in the tank? (You will if you add the pink streaked wrasse or possum wrasse mentioned in the other thread)

Do you have a place for the copepods to breed, like a refugium? (I think you said you don’t)

Are you willing and able to culture pods? If not are you willing to add a bottle of copepods from algae barn every week or two to your tank?

Are you willing and able to get a captive bred mandarin and feed it several times a day with frozen food *and* supplement your tank with live copepods? (Read the articles on keeping mandarins on AlgaeBarn’s website. Captive bred fish might be willing to take prepared foods but they still have the short inefficient digestive tract that means they have to eat basically constantly.)

So to start: No i do not have any wrasse, I have 2 clownfish. And no i do not have a refugium but I would be willing to dose the pods into a pod hotel (you know what that is, right?). Yes I would be getting a captive bred mandarin. And to answer the first question: my tank is 20 gallons( i know lots of people say thats to small but lots of other people and my LFS told me as long as theres lots of live rock and food its gonna be alright)

 

[fishy4thomas]

You don’t need corals to have a mandarin.

What if you asked for a HOB refugium for your birthday? Then you would have a place for your copepods to breed and you would be able to start working towards setting your tank up to support a mandarin in the future?

Thats something i did think about. It could work yeah

 

[Copingwithpods]

Forget the astablished tank and age and all that. To successfully keep a mandarin 1 of 2 things need to happen (or both), you need a self sustaining population of copepods/amphipods (or you can dose them) or it needs to trained on frozen and fed multiple times a day.

The reason I say forget that "astablished" notion is because you might have a 1 or 2 year old tank with very few copepods, if copepod predators are keeping them in check the age of the tank doesn't really matter. Small damsels are copepod eating machines and will quickly out compete a slower mandarin. Won't matter if the tank is 3 years old or 5 years old if you have alot of predators you'll never have a large population. Other factors play a role as well, rockwork, safe heavens for reproduction, copepod food sources, refugium ect.

 

[fishy4thomas]

Forget the astablished tank and age and all that. To successfully keep a mandarin 1 of 2 things need to happen (or both), you need a self sustaining population of copepods/amphipods (or you can dose them) or it needs to trained on frozen and fed multiple times a day.

The reason I say forget that "astablished" notion is because you might have a 1 or 2 year old tank with very few copepods, if copepod predators are keeping them in check the age of the tank doesn't really matter. Small damsels are copepod eating machines and will quickly out compete a slower mandarin. Won't matter if the tank is 3 years old or 5 years old if you have alot of predators you'll never have a large population. Other factors play a role as well, rockwork, safe heavens for reproduction, copepod food sources, refugium ect.

Thats very interesting. I was thinking the exact thing. My LFS said as long as it doesnt starve it will be happy. Thanks a lot!

 

[AbdominalSnowman]

Thats very interesting. I was thinking the exact thing. My LFS said as long as it doesnt starve it will be happy. Thanks a lot!

Keep in mind that your LFS is in the business of making money. While a lot of knowledge (good and sometimes bad) can be attained from an LFS owner or employee, it is important that you as a hobbyist take the time to fact check most things they tell you.
Them telling you that it will be okay as long as it eats, is just a more appealing way of saying it's going to die if the environment you place it in cannot support its needs. Don't think of it as being told you can't ever keep that fish, but that there are concrete steps you can take now to ensure the fish will be able to survive down the road.
Keep asking questions and learning, that's part of the fun of aquarium keeping!

 

[fishy4thomas]

Keep in mind that your LFS is in the business of making money. While a lot of knowledge (good and sometimes bad) can be attained from an LFS owner or employee, it is important that you as a hobbyist take the time to fact check most things they tell you.
Them telling you that it will be okay as long as it eats, is just a more appealing way of saying it's going to die if the environment you place it in cannot support its needs. Don't think of it as being told you can't ever keep that fish, but that there are concrete steps you can take now to ensure the fish will be able to survive down the road.
Keep asking questions and learning, that's part of the fun of aquarium keeping!

That is true. Learning is one of the most enjoyable parts of this hobby. Before I got my tank, I didnt know clownfish were all born male XDD now i know thats basic aquarium info haha

 

[Fishbird]

Yeah sorry if I wasn’t clear. I know you don’t currently have a wrasse, but didn’t you have a thread earlier today asking for fish recommendations? In that thread the wrasses i mentioned were recommended, and if you get a wrasse now, that will effect your copepod population.

I do know what a copepod hotel is. I haven’t seen anybody write about their experience with copepod hotels but I haven’t looked either. I would want to know if fish really can’t get into the hotel.

Like everybody is saying, I know you can find some people who will say you can keep a mandarin in a 20 gallon tank. You’ll find a lot more, including the people who breed captive bred mandarins, saying you need a much bigger tank *and* a refugium *and* an established population of copepods to be successful long term (more than a year).

Here is an article from AlgaeBarn (and they sell captive bred mandarins).

Mandarin Goby Fish Care | Using Copepods to Feed Mandarin Dragonet

Learn how to keep your Mandarin happy and healthy using live foods.

www.algaebarn.com

As the poster above said, and your LFS said, as long as the mandarin gets enough to eat, they will be ok. The other side of that coin is that to make sure they can get enough to eat, you likely need more live rock than can physically fit into a 20 gallon tank and/or a refugium for breeding copepods and/or the ability to regularly add copepods to the tank. I would look up the price of bottles of copepods to see if you’re ok paying this every few weeks.

The good thing is that you seem really invested in getting a mandarin and there are things you can do now to get yourself ready to take care of said mandarin. Set up a refugium. Set up a pot hotel and see if it works. Learn how to culture copepods and phyto (to feed the pods). Think about whether you can get a bigger tank and more live rock. You can do this! I just think you’re going to need to take some active steps before you get your mandarin.

 

[fishy4thomas]

Yeah sorry if I wasn’t clear. I know you don’t currently have a wrasse, but didn’t you have a thread earlier today asking for fish recommendations? In that thread the wrasses i mentioned were recommended, and if you get a wrasse now, that will effect your copepod population.

I do know what a copepod hotel is. I haven’t seen anybody write about their experience with copepod hotels but I haven’t looked either. I would want to know if fish really can’t get into the hotel.

Like everybody is saying, I know you can find some people who will say you can keep a mandarin in a 20 gallon tank. You’ll find a lot more, including the people who breed captive bred mandarins, saying you need a much bigger tank *and* a refugium *and* an established population of copepods to be successful long term (more than a year).

Here is an article from AlgaeBarn (and they sell captive bred mandarins).

Mandarin Goby Fish Care | Using Copepods to Feed Mandarin Dragonet

Learn how to keep your Mandarin happy and healthy using live foods.

www.algaebarn.com

Thanks!

 

[fishy4thomas]

Yeah sorry if I wasn’t clear. I know you don’t currently have a wrasse, but didn’t you have a thread earlier today asking for fish recommendations? In that thread the wrasses i mentioned were recommended, and if you get a wrasse now, that will effect your copepod population.

I do know what a copepod hotel is. I haven’t seen anybody write about their experience with copepod hotels but I haven’t looked either. I would want to know if fish really can’t get into the hotel.

Like everybody is saying, I know you can find some people who will say you can keep a mandarin in a 20 gallon tank. You’ll find a lot more, including the people who breed captive bred mandarins, saying you need a much bigger tank *and* a refugium *and* an established population of copepods to be successful long term (more than a year).

Here is an article from AlgaeBarn (and they sell captive bred mandarins).

Mandarin Goby Fish Care | Using Copepods to Feed Mandarin Dragonet

Learn how to keep your Mandarin happy and healthy using live foods.

www.algaebarn.com

As the poster above said, and your LFS said, as long as the mandarin gets enough to eat, they will be ok. The other side of that coin is that to make sure they can get enough to eat, you likely need more live rock than can physically fit into a 20 gallon tank and/or a refugium for breeding copepods and/or the ability to regularly add copepods to the tank. I would look up the price of bottles of copepods to see if you’re ok paying this every few weeks.

The good thing is that you seem really invested in getting a mandarin and there are things you can do now to get yourself ready to take care of said mandarin. Set up a refugium. Set up a pot hotel and see if it works. Learn how to culture copepods and phyto (to feed the pods). Think about whether you can get a bigger tank and more live rock. You can do this! I just think you’re going to need to take some active steps before you get your mandarin.

Really great article! They didnt say much about aquarium size, but it truly did help. Thanks!

 

[NashobaTek]

Another option is to make a brine shrimp hatchery and a mandrin target feeder. I have 1 male and 2 females in my 125 and they are fat and happy. This tank was started in January this year. Also have a dusky batfish who is growing like a weed.

 

[fishy4thomas]

Another option is to make a brine shrimp hatchery and a mandrin target feeder. I have 1 male and 2 females in my 125 and they are fat and happy. This tank was started in January this year. Also have a dusky batfish who is growing like a weed.

That seems like a good idea. Im also really happy lots of people are interested in mandarins!