Tank going downhill fast

[lost66]

Do I see biopsis? That film can be dino or cyano. Cyano super easy to fix, if dino then having this tank size I would restart the system. Microscope can confirm.

What I would do is just to remove that rock, scrub it and rinse fresh salt water. Clean everything, add filter socks to catch what you scrubbed. And repeat if issues are back. If you are afraid of corals just remove them for this process and keep on a rack or something.
In the meantime stabilize parameters and keep your phosphate/nitrate low but not 0.

Unfortunately, this type of neglect is kind of severe (but common, don't blame yourself too much. it is part of the hobby) and you will have many, many different advises. Different schools, different approaches but for sure you have to figure out what happened exactly so it will not come back.

 

[Reef_puck]

Added some more snails and an urchin. Did some lawn mowing and some bubble mowing during a 10g water change. Let’s see what happens. Will probably change another 10g next week.

 

[zdrc]

Added some more snails and an urchin. Did some lawn mowing and some bubble mowing during a 10g water change. Let’s see what happens. Will probably change another 10g next week.

Sounds like a solid plan. I personally think that weekly water changes do wonders for tank health. However, I can understand why those with huge tanks tend to avoid water changes. Mixing and changing larger amounts of water can be a headache, and it's much easier/cheaper to use aggressive mechanical filtration methods to keep nutrients down. However, with just a 40 gallon I think all you need is weekly or bi-weekly water changes.

I have a 12 gallon nano that's even younger than yours also with bubble algae. I started with maricultured live rock from the gulf, and interestingly the bubble algae doesn't grow on the rock. However, it grows really well on snail shells, frag plugs, and exposed coral skeleton. I think this is pretty reliable evidence that algae problems will get better as the tank gets older.

If you keep up with basic tank maintenance and wait it out, I'm sure it will get better with time.

Also, how do you measure salinity? I've noticed that my refractometer's calibration can change on a weekly basis. I think it's always a good idea to verify that your salinity is correct.

 

[Reef_puck]

Some more pics as the water cleared a little. Also see the Zoas pic. Allot of them won’t open. Is that from slightly higher nitrates (50)? Or what else would make them and the hammer/frogspawn not open up?

 

[Bucs20fan]

It could be from the ticked off toadstool leather, it may be bombing the tank with chemicals. Just food for thought. Running carbon would help if this is the case.

 

[Reef_puck]

Lost the purple firefish.

Ammon still not showing
Nitrate still close to 50. Water change did not make a dent.

so I need to find another way for nitrate export. AIO talks are good for simplicity but not good if you need to add additional equipment/mods.

 

[zdrc]

As far as I know macroalgae, carbon dosing, and water changes are the only ways to actually lower nitrate. Mechanical filtration (e.g. protein skimmer) will remove large organics that would become nitrate and phosphate, but they won't remove any nitrate that's already in the water. Easiest way to get that 50 ppm nitrate down immediately is going to be with water changes. You can add something like a skimmer (if one fits) to keep it from getting back up to 50.

I highly doubt that the water change did nothing. Did you test the water before and immediately after the water change? If you performed the tests a week apart then we can assume that you're adding about 15 ppm of net nitrate to the tank per week via fish food. To get the nitrate lower you're going to need to do a larger water change or a bunch of small ones on consecutive days. You should see the nitrate go down. Then you can add some mechanical filtration to keep the nitrate from going back up.

 

[Fishy888]

Just curious, what is your phosphate levels now? If both nitrates and phosphates are non-zero I would try to get truly live rock. If nothing else new, truly live rock will introduce bacteria that will beat back the dinos. You absolutely need nitrates and phosphates for said good bacteria. If you get some live rock put it in a place on the sand where it touches another rock. It'll take some time but you'll notice the difference within a couple of weeks. Just keep testing for N and P every day. The live rock solution made my dinos go extinct. Hope this helps.

 

[TheDuude]

Sounds like a perfect candidate for a rip clean to me.

Validate your test results if possible by testing at LFS.
Save around 50% of the water, scrub the rocks and rinse with the other half of tank water, discard the sand, rock back in tank, fill with fresh and saved old water.

I would go no Sandbed. Add it back later once you get your nitrates under control.

Don't let the temps get way off and this method has worked on a couple tanks in the past for me.

 

[Fishy888]

I agree on the above except for the no sand part. That sand is a place for good bacteria to colonize. From there they can colonize the rock. Otherwise I also think a rip cleaning will help. A multi-prong approach helps. If you don't have a sump/fuge I'd get some chaeto. The excess nutrients will get used by the chaeto. Just don't let N and P go to zero.

 

[TheDuude]

If you have adequate rock there is plenty of surface area for bacteria. Removal of the sand not only removes the dinos favorite place to multiply but it also helps let you visualize just how much waste the Sandbed can hold. Barebottom allows for easy removal of detritus while the tank matures.

 

[Reef_puck]

The tank is 11 months old. A rip and clean needed? The rock was dry rock. The rock cured in the tank for almost 2 months on setup. No real LR was ever added. LFS says this is all you can get now. I am sure someone has real LR just not the LFS’s locally. This could be a valid as tank never was seeded besides a cycle and what was added vi the Natures Ocean live sand bags.


I have the base skimmer that does not pull much out. The tank is a AIO Aquatop 40g. Can’t really add much as far as additional equipment. The tiny sump area is small. The light was upgraded as that is a clip on the back of the sump/tank.

Nitrate shows 0 on the APO kit but almost color matches 50 on the Salifert kit

PO4 shows 0 on the Salifert kit.


we were very careful with not over feeding and monthly water changes. I do not know how this got to this point. Do reefers rip apart their tanks yearly? I could say corals being trashed as the rock is not going back the same way it came out. Which means ripping the corals off of the LR and putting them in new spots.

still trying to get this tank under control as if we do get a larger tank don’t want to move the mess over.

 

[zdrc]

Maybe have your LFS test the water for nitrate and phosphate. You're getting two wildly different measurements with the two kits you have. People trash on API, but blind test comparisons indicate that it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

How you proceed with taking care of the tank is going to REALLY depend on what the nitrate and phosphate readings actually are.

 

[Tamberav]

Some more pics as the water cleared a little. Also see the Zoas pic. Allot of them won’t open. Is that from slightly higher nitrates (50)? Or what else would make them and the hammer/frogspawn not open up?

the zoas are likely irritated by the algae growing on them which makes them close which makes more algae grow on them...

It is not the nitrate. 50 nitrate is not going to bother them.

 

[Tamberav]

The tank is 11 months old. A rip and clean needed? The rock was dry rock. The rock cured in the tank for almost 2 months on setup. No real LR was ever added. LFS says this is all you can get now. I am sure someone has real LR just not the LFS’s locally. This could be a valid as tank never was seeded besides a cycle and what was added vi the Natures Ocean live sand bags.


I have the base skimmer that does not pull much out. The tank is a AIO Aquatop 40g. Can’t really add much as far as additional equipment. The tiny sump area is small. The light was upgraded as that is a clip on the back of the sump/tank.

Nitrate shows 0 on the APO kit but almost color matches 50 on the Salifert kit

PO4 shows 0 on the Salifert kit.


we were very careful with not over feeding and monthly water changes. I do not know how this got to this point. Do reefers rip apart their tanks yearly? I could say corals being trashed as the rock is not going back the same way it came out. Which means ripping the corals off of the LR and putting them in new spots.

still trying to get this tank under control as if we do get a larger tank don’t want to move the mess over.

You can buy ocean live rock online. My LFS brings it back from florida every few months.

Manual removal and a proper CUC and it can be fixed.

If you have 50 nitrate and did a 50% water change, you would be left with 25 nitrate.

My nitrate was 58 last I tested. I do not have any issues with softies and LPS. I do not have any issues with algae other then a dusting of cyano sometimes on the sand (dirty sand!) but the rock was live rock and it is old been around now.

New tanks with dry rock can have a lot of algae colonize easier. Less competitors.

0 PO4 is no good. Honestly I would buy a hannah nitrate high range checker and a po4 checker. I don't know how anyone reads those colors lol

It takes a lot of hard work sometimes to keep the tank under control until it matures. Dry rock can take a few years to settle.

 

[Fishy888]

I had the opposite problem. 1ppm PO4 and 0 nitrates. From my research wildly different NO3 and PO4 readings are fairly common in tanks with dinos.

 

[Reef_puck]

When I got home tonight I mixed a fresh cup of RO/DI and same salt to 1.024. I let it sit sit a little while then tested with the Nitrate test kit and it was zero.

I retested the tank and attached is the reading
.

 

[Fishy888]

That's an improvement. Looks like about 35ppm nitrate. How are phosphates currently?

 

[Reef_puck]

The hair algae nestled between the Zoas do I scrub with a brush there and hope I dont dislodge them from the rock.

took water to LFS (wife did). They said nitrate was ok, ammon was super low, ph was low and salinity was a little low at 1.023 for what that means to this puzzle. they did not give other numbers.
they said I need to add reef buffer to raise the ph.

still don’t understand why the leather and Green nepthea and Galaxia are all not open.

I’ll let it ride another week or so then maybe give up on this small tank.