Tank is too clean - help to keep Nitrate, Phosphate ratio back

[balajeek15]

I have posted this on other thread on May 4th asking what could be wrong with my tank as my corals are shrinking or degrading on my year old 90g tank. I was suggested to do ICP which i did and came out that I am low on trace elements specially Iodine=0, Manganese=0, Zinc=0 and few other trace elements bit lower.

As you can see from the other thread (link above) i have posted the ICP results in page 2

I did a test of all parameters again today
Ammonia is zero, still nitrate (red sea) and phosphate (Hanna) is zero
Calcium is 500+ (as per red sea test kit i use 1.1ml)
Mag is 1600+ (as per red sea test kit i used 0.8ml)
Alk - 9.2 (Hanna)

My E-Bionic 2 part dosing is 10ml per day both, I think i should stop it for a week to see if Calcium comes down, or should i just stop Ca and continue to run Alk may be at 5ml a day?

Suggestion given to do ICP which i did and posted the results, increase feeding, which instead of once a day i did flakes/pellets around 11am and brine shrimp a lot at 8pm for nearly 3 weeks. weekly once Reef Roid.

Since i was low on many trace element, i thought i could give a try with
Red Sea Reef Energy A+B (4ml each for 3 days)
and Trace Colors ABCD (2ml each for 3 days).
The moment i used that i see 3 kind polyps closed and even when its open its not open fully, I stopped it since 2 days ago and waiting to see if polyp opens up. not sure if i continue with lowering the dose or wait.

What else i could do.
- i have some dry rocks, can i add them slowly piece by piece into the sump that can increase nitrate (worried about ammonia)
- was reading some thread and they suggest dose Spectracide stump remover from Lowes
- some say add Seachem Reef Iodide or Lupo or something like that (i may have spelled wrong)

 

[KrisReef]

There is no magic to growing coral. God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. I think you need to study his plan more carefully.
Your tank set up is dosing too much calcium and alk is also high, but if alk is stable you only need to cut back slightly on Calcium and get it closer and stable towards 400-440, where ever you decide you want it to be, get it lower.

You were already encouraged to start doing water changes. It seems that you like to be busy or active with the tank so for you it might be best to mix a large batch of fresh salt water and then do a 1 (one) gallon water change daily. This will slowly lower your magnesium if you are using a non-enhanced salt mix (like Instant Ocean) that does not have elevated magnesium? If you are using a salt mix with elevated magnesium, change your salt mix. High mag is not bad, but over time I don't think it makes sense to run mag much over 1400. Mag is used slowly by corals in their growth and is more important in our tanks because it helps ionically to keep Calcium/Alkalinity water parameters stable. Elevated Mag (1500+) reportedly helps reduce some pest algae growth but normal mag in the ocean and in lots of successful reef tanks is around 1320ppm. Corals can thrive with stable magnesium levels about 1320ppm.

You nitrates and phosphates are testing at zero. Those levels are the envy of every super low nutrient tank enthusiast and a certain death sentence to corals in most instances. Many corals have mouths, feeding tentacles, or special means to obtain their needed uptake nitrates and phosphates from out of the water column. Corals have symbiotic algae, plants that require N & P in relatively large quantities to live and grow. The growth of these symbionts, when they are fed properly will cause them to produce excess sugars (and other molecules?) that diffuse into the coral and provide them energy for life and growth. Starve the algae (low N & P) and create a stressful environment for plants (elevated Mg) and corals will languish. If your water is N&P free, then it does not really matter how the ICP test reads for all the other elements in your tank, the coral will not thrive and eventually will die.

So, the slow water changes with low mag salt can help keep your trace elements replenished; corals like more than just calcium, carbonate, and mg! They like fresh oceanic water that is stable and has plenty of trace elements.

Corals also require good water movement to exchange elements from out of the tank. Water movement, not waves and not a blasting stream directly at the coral, but rigorous currents to facilitate waste removal and nutrient delivery is also necessary for reef animals to thrive.

I don't know about your lights, or the PAR your corals are getting, but I will assume that the light provided by your system is ok because no one in the other thread suggested that might be a problem.

Feed those fish, and feed the coral, and keep feeding them until you see nitrates and phosphates on your test kits.

In my tank my phosphates are "too high", but the corals I have seem to like that. I feed the fish to keep the nitrates up. I used to starve my fish, but I went away for work and my wife started feeding the fish (she likes to eat) and when I came home all of the fish were noticeably bigger and my friends all said the corals look great. (My nitrates were ~10, and phosphates 0.2 ppm, that is not a typo!)

Also, a year young tank can be a hard trial for coral success. We don't know enough about God's design to faithfully replicate natural reef conditions. SOme people have great, immediate success and others (like me) have to keep at it for a few years until the tank decides that it is happy and corals will thrive. Many people will disagree with some of the things I have said, but hopefully, you can figure out which of this stuff applies to your situation and find the way forward to get your stuff growing. Keep at it, move slowly, and "keep your hands out of the tank." (God rested on the 7th day too. )

And cut out the addition of random reef elements. If you add anything, add stuff for nutrition like amino acids (slowly) and feed Reef-Roids or similar products. I feed my corals at night when their polyps come out for feeding. Gl

 

[balajeek15]

Thank you so much for taking time and providing me all these details, I really appreciate it and feel bit comfort. I hope i will be successful one day.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Let your tank stabilize, while keeping feedings to a minimum. While Zero can be a good result, you need a small amount for "happiness" in your tank for various specimens.
Your Mag and Calcium levels seem a little high also and I would not dose for 48-72 hrs to allow them to drop a little. Bright lights if you have can go against your corals and water movement moderate at a temp of 78 deg and salinity 1.02 -1.026

 

[Sallstrom]

If you would like to know for sure what you add to your tank and what doses to use, you could buy KNO3 and KH2PO4. These can be found in freshwater/planted tank shops. Then you know the products are meant to be used in aquariums.

Adding dry rock might be a good and simple thing to do. Not sure how much nutrients they will add, but sometimes they might add some phosphate(which would be a good thing in your case).

Another thing you could try, if you have a in-sump skimmer, is to remove the cup and let the skimmate run back to the sump. That way you get get the gas exchange but you're not removing as much nutreints/dirt from the water.

 

[flchamp89]

There is no magic to growing coral. God created the world in 6 days and rested on the 7th. I think you need to study his plan more carefully.
Your tank set up is dosing too much calcium and alk is also high, but if alk is stable you only need to cut back slightly on Calcium and get it closer and stable towards 400-440, where ever you decide you want it to be, get it lower.

You were already encouraged to start doing water changes. It seems that you like to be busy or active with the tank so for you it might be best to mix a large batch of fresh salt water and then do a 1 (one) gallon water change daily. This will slowly lower your magnesium if you are using a non-enhanced salt mix (like Instant Ocean) that does not have elevated magnesium? If you are using a salt mix with elevated magnesium, change your salt mix. High mag is not bad, but over time I don't think it makes sense to run mag much over 1400. Mag is used slowly by corals in their growth and is more important in our tanks because it helps ionically to keep Calcium/Alkalinity water parameters stable. Elevated Mag (1500+) reportedly helps reduce some pest algae growth but normal mag in the ocean and in lots of successful reef tanks is around 1320ppm. Corals can thrive with stable magnesium levels about 1320ppm.

You nitrates and phosphates are testing at zero. Those levels are the envy of every super low nutrient tank enthusiast and a certain death sentence to corals in most instances. Many corals have mouths, feeding tentacles, or special means to obtain their needed uptake nitrates and phosphates from out of the water column. Corals have symbiotic algae, plants that require N & P in relatively large quantities to live and grow. The growth of these symbionts, when they are fed properly will cause them to produce excess sugars (and other molecules?) that diffuse into the coral and provide them energy for life and growth. Starve the algae (low N & P) and create a stressful environment for plants (elevated Mg) and corals will languish. If your water is N&P free, then it does not really matter how the ICP test reads for all the other elements in your tank, the coral will not thrive and eventually will die.

So, the slow water changes with low mag salt can help keep your trace elements replenished; corals like more than just calcium, carbonate, and mg! They like fresh oceanic water that is stable and has plenty of trace elements.

Corals also require good water movement to exchange elements from out of the tank. Water movement, not waves and not a blasting stream directly at the coral, but rigorous currents to facilitate waste removal and nutrient delivery is also necessary for reef animals to thrive.

I don't know about your lights, or the PAR your corals are getting, but I will assume that the light provided by your system is ok because no one in the other thread suggested that might be a problem.

Feed those fish, and feed the coral, and keep feeding them until you see nitrates and phosphates on your test kits.

In my tank my phosphates are "too high", but the corals I have seem to like that. I feed the fish to keep the nitrates up. I used to starve my fish, but I went away for work and my wife started feeding the fish (she likes to eat) and when I came home all of the fish were noticeably bigger and my friends all said the corals look great. (My nitrates were ~10, and phosphates 0.2 ppm, that is not a typo!)

Also, a year young tank can be a hard trial for coral success. We don't know enough about God's design to faithfully replicate natural reef conditions. SOme people have great, immediate success and others (like me) have to keep at it for a few years until the tank decides that it is happy and corals will thrive. Many people will disagree with some of the things I have said, but hopefully, you can figure out which of this stuff applies to your situation and find the way forward to get your stuff growing. Keep at it, move slowly, and "keep your hands out of the tank." (God rested on the 7th day too. )

And cut out the addition of random reef elements. If you add anything, add stuff for nutrition like amino acids (slowly) and feed Reef-Roids or similar products. I feed my corals at night when their polyps come out for feeding. Gl

Great answer.

 

[balajeek15]

If you would like to know for sure what you add to your tank and what doses to use, you could buy KNO3 and KH2PO4. These can be found in freshwater/planted tank shops. Then you know the products are meant to be used in aquariums.

Adding dry rock might be a good and simple thing to do. Not sure how much nutrients they will add, but sometimes they might add some phosphate(which would be a good thing in your case).

Another thing you could try, if you have a in-sump skimmer, is to remove the cup and let the skimmate run back to the sump. That way you get get the gas exchange but you're not removing as much nutreints/dirt from the water.

thats a nice trick on removing the skimmer cup, i had it turn off in the night, i guess i have to keep it on all time without cup. you meant as a temporary plan to increase NO3 and PO4 right?

 

[Sallstrom]

thats a nice trick on removing the skimmer cup, i had it turn off in the night, i guess i have to keep it on all time without cup. you meant as a temporary plan to increase NO3 and PO4 right?

Yes. And just put the cup back when/if the nutrients starts to increase.

I don't like to turn on/off pumps due to the risk of it not starting again So removing the cup is "safer" I think. Plus you get the gas exchange.

 

[balajeek15]

Yes. And just put the cup back when/if the nutrients starts to increase.

I don't like to turn on/off pumps due to the risk of it not starting again So removing the cup is "safer" I think. Plus you get the gas exchange.

awesome thanks.

 

[balajeek15]

i ordered seachem iodide and its delivering today, as per the ICP test last week Iodine is zero and need to increase to near 60 according to them, does iodine dose need to be slow or can it a little fast?

 

[jsbzcmcdaniel]

I had the identical issue with 0 PO4 and NO3. My SPS looked dull and slowly died. I reached out to a very reputable SPS guy in my area and he recommended I start dosing Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro to increase them. I started dosing 13ml per day and tested every morning until I reached a level I wanted. I started to back off to 8ml and now my PO4 is 0.07 and N03 is 5. My SPS are now colorful and thriving.

 

[balajeek15]

I had the identical issue with 0 PO4 and NO3. My SPS looked dull and slowly died. I reached out to a very reputable SPS guy in my area and he recommended I start dosing Brightwell NeoPhos and NeoNitro to increase them. I started dosing 13ml per day and tested every morning until I reached a level I wanted. I started to back off to 8ml and now my PO4 is 0.07 and N03 is 5. My SPS are now colorful and thriving.

how long it took to see an initial result so you can be for sure that its working?