Tank new cycle question

[Mafiaboy]

Hi everyone,

I have a question regarding my brothers tank. He started up a brand new tank and used Fritz turbo start, it's been about 4 weeks and i went to test the Nitrate which is at 5.6 according to the hanna test kit. Is this data sufficient or do I need to test ammonia levels or anything else to determine whether it's safe to put 2 test fish (clowns or something rather).

I would like to put 2 clowns and start feeding.

Any feedback would be great because I would have to order ammonia test strips if that is necessary.

Thanks!

 

[tbrown]

Usually you want to make sure Nitrite and Ammonia are both gone but if you used TurboStart that's the nitrifying bacteria so theoretically you're good to go. Do you have a Petco or PetSmart near you? Or any local fish store... They'll usually test your water for you for free.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi everyone,

I have a question regarding my brothers tank. He started up a brand new tank and used Fritz turbo start, it's been about 4 weeks and i went to test the Nitrate which is at 5.6 according to the hanna test kit. Is this data sufficient or do I need to test ammonia levels or anything else to determine whether it's safe to put 2 test fish (clowns or something rather).

I would like to put 2 clowns and start feeding.

Any feedback would be great because I would have to order ammonia test strips if that is necessary.

Thanks!

Don’t worry about nitrite unless sky high and turbo start is good
When ammonia is steady at zero and nitrate is 29 or less- tank is cycled
Did you add Ammonia chloride or a piece of shrimp to initially raise ammonia?
If not, you should so that you can see these levels rise then drop and stay steady at numbers above

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Hi everyone,

I have a question regarding my brothers tank. He started up a brand new tank and used Fritz turbo start, it's been about 4 weeks and i went to test the Nitrate which is at 5.6 according to the hanna test kit. Is this data sufficient or do I need to test ammonia levels or anything else to determine whether it's safe to put 2 test fish (clowns or something rather).

I would like to put 2 clowns and start feeding.

Any feedback would be great because I would have to order ammonia test strips if that is necessary.

Thanks!

First, "test fish" should NOT be a thing!!! You add fish when you are sure the tank is safe, not to check and see if they will get ammonia poisoning.

What did he add as an ammonia source when he added the turbo start? How much rock or other biomedia is in the tank for the bacteria to colonize?
After 4 weeks it's likely fine but remember that the bacteria needs to be fed and needs a place to live, or it won't be at a level to nitrify the bioload once he adds fish, etc.

My recommendation, test for ammonia, if it's zero, then add a small amount of fish food (a couple of pinches of flakes) every day for 3-4 days and then test ammonia and nitrates again (nitrITEs are irrelevant).

If there is still no ammonia and the nitrate is equal to or higher than the current test, then adding fish (ideally ONE smaller fish) is probably safe. Once the first fish is in, test ammonia daily for 3-5 days to make sure nothing has gone wrong, and then slowly increase the bioload (i.e. add more fish/clean up crew).

Edit: the larger the volume of the tank and the amount of rock/biomedia present, the more the system can handle at once. So if this is a 40 gallon or larger and there is sufficient rock, adding 2 fish once you've done the first part and determined the tank can process a small amount of ammonia should be fine.

 

[Mafiaboy]

First, "test fish" should NOT be a thing!!! You add fish when you are sure the tank is safe, not to check and see if they will get ammonia poisoning.

What did he add as an ammonia source when he added the turbo start? How much rock or other biomedia is in the tank for the bacteria to colonize?
After 4 weeks it's likely fine but remember that the bacteria needs to be fed and needs a place to live, or it won't be at a level to nitrify the bioload once he adds fish, etc.

My recommendation, test for ammonia, if it's zero, then add a small amount of fish food (a couple of pinches of flakes) every day for 3-4 days and then test ammonia and nitrates again (nitrITEs are irrelevant).

If there is still no ammonia and the nitrate is equal to or higher than the current test, then adding fish (ideally ONE smaller fish) is probably safe. Once the first fish is in, test ammonia daily for 3-5 days to make sure nothing has gone wrong, and then slowly increase the bioload (i.e. add more fish/clean up crew).

Edit: the larger the volume of the tank and the amount of rock/biomedia present, the more the system can handle at once. So if this is a 40 gallon or larger and there is sufficient rock, adding 2 fish once you've done the first part and determined the tank can process a small amount of ammonia should be fine.

It's a 260 gal (including sump) and i believe 140 lbs of rock. I don't think he added anything for ammonia, I have to double check with him.

 

[Mafiaboy]

He was going to add fishless fuel but a guy from the store said you will only need the Fritz turbostart

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

He was going to add fishless fuel but a guy from the store said you will only need the Fritz turbostart

I don't really like the "fishless fuel", preferring to add other organic matter...
As I said, after 4 weeks, the tank is certainly able to process *some* ammonia.

Test for ammonia just in case, if it's not zero, then don't add fish yet. But if it's zero, with that large a tank and what seems to be adequate rock, then adding 2 fish will be fine, just be sure to test ammonia for a few days just to be safe. The bacteria is there, it just may need a short time to grow.
But that's an advantage of a larger water volume... The ammonia produced by 2 fish shouldn't rise too quickly. Just tell him to go slow..
Nothing good happens fast in this hobby

 

[brandon429]

Erin, we talked about you constantly spreading false panic that doesn’t come from any article or observation or real life encounter or anything you’ve ever seen in person.



of course this tank is ready for fish, they’re not tests. There are no ammonia control issues on week six of any bottle bac cycle


Im aware a vitriolic response is more likely than a link showing a simple digital ammonia example of no ammonia control ability on a week five setup.

 

[brandon429]

Old cycling science:
trying to panic a poster who wants two clowns in a 260 gallon reef that his fish will be burned


you could cycle the fish in the tank with no bottle bac at all with that dilution, but folks who do linkless cycle work won’t tell you that, they’re into panic

an example of linked cycle work showing nobody has ammonia control issues at day ten, much less day forty:

How to unstick any seemingly stuck cycle

Updated Cycling Science in Action This is a testless reef tank cycling thread, the only one from any board. If you ever had trouble with reef tank cycling in the past, you won't any longer after working some jobs with us. chances are you are using/about to use a method of reef tank cycling...

www.reef2reef.com

old cycling advocates only know one more: fear, wait longer, and a warning about something they’ve never seen occur and can’t link a single example for us to see.

Even if you didn't add ammonia or a shrimp, you're cycled and won't burn fish but you can't be told that by cycle umps who don't make work threads, you'll get only invented fear

There are no threads of a fritz cycle unable to carry fish at month 1 any way you want to slice it

As this thread turns into eight pages of anger for the corrections, notice there are no alternate links for the scary claims made

There's only a link to read for the truth, where nobody fears stalled cycles, in any setting

 

[brandon429]

Nobody has trouble doing day one fish cycles with fritz

Seneye shows it, all fritz+fish cycles show a safe no burn go

That is being omitted by Erin

Ergo

Adding fritz into a tank with nothing else, no feed, doesn't kill bacteria. Your tank is now like a big bottle of fritz awaiting loading and able to process it when ready, first day

Water bacteria don't die when we add them to water

They float, swirl, attach, still feeding on natural inputs the panic crew will not discuss

Then when you add fish into 260 gallons, two small fish, you're doing the easiest form of fish in cycling possible and it works with NO harm on day forty for the same reason it works day one with no harm

Were we going to get told that info here eventually or was it going to be panic warning for eight pages?

You should NOT dose this huge reef to 2ppm these cycle umpires are going to set you back months

Your cycle is done by rule of timing wait factored against the ammonia line from a cycling chart


Add the fish, post pics here of them doing fine pls so I can collect another contrast example of fear vs reality outcome/ that's what we collect above is pics of fish always doing fine and seneye spot checks for our timing.

Final proof: old cycling science never discussed fish disease preps, they never ever do, it's all about a stalled cycle they've never actually seen, only heard about.

Read up on disease preps and make a choice before you add fish. Your cycle isn't the limiter

Cycle umpires: you have zero examples of a failed cycle

However, you can easily find fish disease issues: adjust your warnings to what you have seen, can link, and can find

 

[livinlifeinBKK]

240 gallons, i agree with @brandon429

 

[Dburr1014]

Hi everyone,

I have a question regarding my brothers tank. He started up a brand new tank and used Fritz turbo start, it's been about 4 weeks and i went to test the Nitrate which is at 5.6 according to the hanna test kit. Is this data sufficient or do I need to test ammonia levels or anything else to determine whether it's safe to put 2 test fish (clowns or something rather).

I would like to put 2 clowns and start feeding.

Any feedback would be great because I would have to order ammonia test strips if that is necessary.

Thanks!

Get some fish in there.
Don't forget qt protocols.
Happy reefing!

 

[brandon429]

this is why I think there's cycling beef

-all folks want the best for fish.

eras in reefkeeping seem to be in ten year increments

for example, how many years in posts and articles were keepers of deep sandbeds promised nitrate reduction in the thin anaerobic microlayer...ten years, from 99-2009 then we started seeing many more noncompliant nitrate readings than compliant ones

we needed to be told that adding sand and not physically caring for it causes variation in outcome including tank loss due to constant invasions etc. there are mixed-in successes as well

variability was not what I was taught in 99 it was the factual guarantee that adding six inches of sand would automatically eat up all the waste in my tank, and not to touch it.

sandbedding isn't the deal it was promised to be or we wouldn't need fifty page work threads to prevent sandbeds killing people's tanks when they move, transfer, upgrade, change sandbeds etc.

hidden risks were not conveyed in those first ten years, after all who can debate with citations from oceanic articles.

we had to get practical over time to find the truth, ten years then in 09 then no sandbed reefs came on strong in pattern

so in my opinion nobody is really at fault for any angle they push in cycling. the end goal for anyone posting here is the safety of fish.

It is fair to ask ourselves: cycling has not been given any new ruleset/ever

when will cycling be allowed a ten year change in revolution

how will we know when that's underway?

I like to think of it this way bc it doesn't accuse anyone of anything. if reef tank cycling is going to evolve, what are the markers?

how about this offer: one marker will be over four million successful bottle bac + fish on day one threads, vs 4 million fish dead from ammonia.

are we allowing for ANY change, any growth at all in cycling science from the frame of reference of 1999? should we be or should we stop that one portion of the hobby from evolving?

Can speed of start date evolve, decrease from thirty days required since 1999, in reefing practice like moores law governs computing speed? When full evolution is complete, what is the fastest allowed start date (day one, when you set up the tank with fish and bottle bac)




*even if two or more folks are never going to agree on cycling science, everyone agrees fish disease is a true, new and marked risk for this decade

hence the rise of Jay and HF methodology and the strongest retention % for fish of ANY method so far

so we should at least tell all new cyclers about disease prep at the start: it's more important than ammonia coaching. No thought is required for ammonia control, it'll tilt bottle/ add in/ your ammonia is controlled. Focus all training on disease prevention per all searchable trending

 

[Mafiaboy]

this is why I think there's cycling beef

-all folks want the best for fish.

eras in reefkeeping seem to be in ten year increments

for example, how many years in posts and articles were keepers of deep sandbeds promised nitrate reduction in the thin anaerobic microlayer...ten years, from 99-2009 then we started seeing many more noncompliant nitrate readings than compliant ones

we needed to be told that adding sand and not physically caring for it causes variation in outcome including tank loss due to constant invasions etc. there are mixed-in successes as well

variability was not what I was taught in 99 it was the factual guarantee that adding six inches of sand would automatically eat up all the waste in my tank, and not to touch it.

sandbedding isn't the deal it was promised to be or we wouldn't need fifty page work threads to prevent sandbeds killing people's tanks when they move, transfer, upgrade, change sandbeds etc.

hidden risks were not conveyed in those first ten years, after all who can debate with citations from oceanic articles.

we had to get practical over time to find the truth, ten years then in 09 then no sandbed reefs came on strong in pattern

so in my opinion nobody is really at fault for any angle they push in cycling. the end goal for anyone posting here is the safety of fish.

It is fair to ask ourselves: cycling has not been given any new ruleset/ever

when will cycling be allowed a ten year change in revolution

how will we know when that's underway?

I like to think of it this way bc it doesn't accuse anyone of anything. if reef tank cycling is going to evolve, what are the markers?

how about this offer: one marker will be over four million successful bottle bac + fish on day one threads, vs 4 million fish dead from ammonia.

are we allowing for ANY change, any growth at all in cycling science from the frame of reference of 1999? should we be or should we stop that one portion of the hobby from evolving?

Can speed of start date evolve, decrease from thirty days required since 1999, in reefing practice like moores law governs computing speed? When full evolution is complete, what is the fastest allowed start date (day one, when you set up the tank with fish and bottle bac)




*even if two or more folks are never going to agree on cycling science, everyone agrees fish disease is a true, new and marked risk for this decade

hence the rise of Jay and HF methodology and the strongest retention % for fish of ANY method so far

so we should at least tell all new cyclers about disease prep at the start: it's more important than ammonia coaching. No thought is required for ammonia control, it'll tilt bottle/ add in/ your ammonia is controlled. Focus all training on disease prevention per all searchable trending

Thanks for the posts, I'm going to put some fish and report back here

 

[brandon429]

Make sure the salinity is fairly close between holding aquarium and the home tank then just put the fish in, extended acclimation is stressful

Temps fairly close that's what needs to match