tank raised ORA Mandarin not eating.

[squillaempusa]

Does anyone have experience with Mandarins? i have a tank raised ORA green/blue mandarin goby in a 40b grow out tank, and he's the only fish. he pecks at the live rock constantly, but i can't see him actually getting anything. it seems like he's getting skinnier to me. i offer him cyclops, rotifers, baby brine shrimp, and Spectrum micro pellets (plus the coral food). my question is, if he's pecking at the rock and bottom of the tank does that mean he's eating?

 

[Eienna]

Chances are he's reverted to live food; even those that will eat prepared food usually require a steady supply of tiny crustaceans known as copepods. You will need to pretty much flood your system with them so he can get his condition back up while he learns to eat frozens/pellets again. My mandarin did adapt to NLS Small Fish, but it took several months, with pods. Live baby brine shrimp and live blackworms may also be accepted, though it would be extremely difficult for him to compete with other fish for these resources.

Tisbe biminiensis is the best copepod species for dragonets like the Mandarin. Tigger-pods (tigriopus californicus) are more often seen in my area, but are more difficult for a dragonet to catch, and don't reproduce as well as tisbe in tropical systems. Best place I've seen to get tisbe pods is the drsfostersmith.com site.

 

[squillaempusa]

Chances are he's reverted to live food; even those that will eat prepared food usually require a steady supply of tiny crustaceans known as copepods. You will need to pretty much flood your system with them so he can get his condition back up while he learns to eat frozens/pellets again. My mandarin did adapt to NLS Small Fish, but it took several months, with pods. Live baby brine shrimp and live blackworms may also be accepted, though it would be extremely difficult for him to compete with other fish for these resources.

Tisbe biminiensis is the best copepod species for dragonets like the Mandarin. Tigger-pods (tigriopus californicus) are more often seen in my area, but are more difficult for a dragonet to catch, and don't reproduce as well as tisbe in tropical systems. Best place I've seen to get tisbe pods is the drsfostersmith.com site.

thanks a bunch for your insightful response. i will take your advice. he's is the only fish in the tank. you think i have a decent shot with live blackworms? he'll be able to get them down? for the Mandarin's mouth, they seem pretty big.

 

[Eienna]

Hmm.....well, you might have to chop them, but fresh still gets taken more quickly than stuff that's been frozen and thawed.

Some VERY helpful brine-shrimp-hatchy-feedy-type stuffs for ya:
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-brine-shrimp-hatchery-shell-separator-2842/
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-target-feeder-mandarinfish-pipefish-2804/

Now, when I started with mine, he was in a 20g high and I, not knowing better, was using the Tigger-Pods brand. It took me a bottle a month (with two and three a month where I could spare it) to keep him in decent condition until he was taking the NLS Small Fish reliably. I was able to drop adding pods after that. Frequent feedings, though - little and often is the key, and he has to be able to get to it before any future tankmates do. Get him swapped to frozens BEFORE adding tankmates if at all possible.

 

[squillaempusa]

Hmm.....well, you might have to chop them, but fresh still gets taken more quickly than stuff that's been frozen and thawed.

Some VERY helpful brine-shrimp-hatchy-feedy-type stuffs for ya:
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-brine-shrimp-hatchery-shell-separator-2842/
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-target-feeder-mandarinfish-pipefish-2804/

Now, when I started with mine, he was in a 20g high and I, not knowing better, was using the Tigger-Pods brand. It took me a bottle a month (with two and three a month where I could spare it) to keep him in decent condition until he was taking the NLS Small Fish reliably. I was able to drop adding pods after that. Frequent feedings, though - little and often is the key, and he has to be able to get to it before any future tankmates do. Get him swapped to frozens BEFORE adding tankmates if at all possible.[/QUOTE

ok, cool. looks like i lucked out and found the right person for advice. i'm gonna try to get some live blackworms tmrw, if the LFS has them in. then i'll work on the Tisbe pods. also, what do you think he's doing when he's pecking on the live rock and bare tank bottom? did yours do that when you were having problems with it taking food? is he actually eating, but just not enough?

 

[squillaempusa]

Hmm.....well, you might have to chop them, but fresh still gets taken more quickly than stuff that's been frozen and thawed.

Some VERY helpful brine-shrimp-hatchy-feedy-type stuffs for ya:
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-brine-shrimp-hatchery-shell-separator-2842/
http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/diy-target-feeder-mandarinfish-pipefish-2804/

Now, when I started with mine, he was in a 20g high and I, not knowing better, was using the Tigger-Pods brand. It took me a bottle a month (with two and three a month where I could spare it) to keep him in decent condition until he was taking the NLS Small Fish reliably. I was able to drop adding pods after that. Frequent feedings, though - little and often is the key, and he has to be able to get to it before any future tankmates do. Get him swapped to frozens BEFORE adding tankmates if at all possible.

ok, cool. looks like i lucked out and found the right person for advice. i'm gonna try to get some live blackworms tmrw, if the LFS has them in. then i'll work on the Tisbe pods. also, what do you think he's doing when he's pecking on the live rock and bare tank bottom? did yours do that when you were having problems with it taking food? is he actually eating, but just not enough?

 

[Eienna]

That is their typical hunting behavior, yes. Normally, a mandarin will peck around constantly for copepods (which are so small, they're difficult to see with the naked eye.) If you want to check on the population density you can shine a flashlight on the glass at night and they will be attracted to the light. He will still do that if there aren't enough pods, testing for anything he considers edible.

That reminds me, if Nutramar Ova is still around, that's a terrific frozen food for dragonets. They generally seem to love it.

 

[squillaempusa]

That is their typical hunting behavior, yes. Normally, a mandarin will peck around constantly for copepods (which are so small, they're difficult to see with the naked eye.) If you want to check on the population density you can shine a flashlight on the glass at night and they will be attracted to the light. He will still do that if there aren't enough pods, testing for anything he considers edible.

That reminds me, if Nutramar Ova is still around, that's a terrific frozen food for dragonets. They generally seem to love it.

ok. that all makes sense. going for blackworms today. hopefully they have them. tisbes pods this weekend. thanks again!

 

[squillaempusa]

That is their typical hunting behavior, yes. Normally, a mandarin will peck around constantly for copepods (which are so small, they're difficult to see with the naked eye.) If you want to check on the population density you can shine a flashlight on the glass at night and they will be attracted to the light. He will still do that if there aren't enough pods, testing for anything he considers edible.

That reminds me, if Nutramar Ova is still around, that's a terrific frozen food for dragonets. They generally seem to love it.

also, never heard of Ova food, but i hear LRS (not sure if that's in your area) is what a lot of people feed the Mandarins when they accept frozen food.

 

[VelasCorals]

When did you get the mandarin? ORA stopped selling those a while ago. Wondering if you were sold a wild caught mandarin that was mislabeled.

 

[Eienna]

When did you get the mandarin? ORA stopped selling those a while ago. Wondering if you were sold a wild caught mandarin that was mislabeled.

A definite possibility. They haven't been breeding those for some time, last I heard.

also, never heard of Ova food, but i hear LRS (not sure if that's in your area) is what a lot of people feed the Mandarins when they accept frozen food.

I have heard that also. Never got a chance to try it myself, but if he DOES take it, it'd most likely be really good for him.

 

[Vaughn17]

I purchased a pair of aquacultured mandarins last year that reputedly ate frozen food but, as it turned out, only one of them did, and then only PE mysis. I had to turn all the pumps off and place the mysis in a little pile on the tank's bottom. There were no other fish in the tank (20 gallon) and the one (male) got fat while the other got skinny, so I gave them to a reefer with much larger, pod filled tank.

 

[shred5]

Eienna gave some great advice.

Only thing I can add is really it aint to hard to raise copepods to supplement.. Most keep are tanks way to clean now a days for high enough population of copepods to sustain a mandrin except maybe the largest tanks. They live on detritus and algae mainly micro..

Also it is easy supplement some with Baby brine shrimp.

It really is hard to get them on dry food..

Mine take PE Calanus, they also will take frozen cyclopeese but dry food not a chance.
PE Calanus is your best choice right now for non live food.

 

[shred5]

When did you get the mandarin? ORA stopped selling those a while ago. Wondering if you were sold a wild caught mandarin that was mislabeled.

Very true and really sad they stopped. Part of the issue was it took too long for grow out and the price is so cheap on this fish because it is so easy to catch wild. People I guess were not willing to spend the extra money.

 

[squillaempusa]

When did you get the mandarin? ORA stopped selling those a while ago. Wondering if you were sold a wild caught mandarin that was mislabeled.

about 3 weeks ago. yup, you're right. a rep from ORA just responded to me today, telling me the same thing. also offered some advice on keeping/feeding Mandarins.

 

[squillaempusa]

Very true and really sad they stopped. Part of the issue was it took too long for grow out and the price is so cheap on this fish because it is so easy to catch wild. People I guess were not willing to spend the extra money.

well that, and people felt misled, because their tank raised Mandarins stopped eating pellet/frozen food in a reef tank due to the competition of other fish. they'd have to be in a species tank, or seahorse tank to continue to be happy with pellets or frozen foods. in other words, they were starving, so they'd default back to crustaceans (on live rock, etc). i guess they were getting too many complaints, so they stopped selling them. i only learned this today after reading the email from ORA.

 

[squillaempusa]

Eienna gave some great advice.

Only thing I can add is really it aint to hard to raise copepods to supplement.. Most keep are tanks way to clean now a days for high enough population of copepods to sustain a mandrin except maybe the largest tanks. They live on detritus and algae mainly micro..

Also it is easy supplement some with Baby brine shrimp.

It really is hard to get them on dry food..

Mine take PE Calanus, they also will take frozen cyclopeese but dry food not a chance.
PE Calanus is your best choice right now for non live food.

are cyclopeese the same as cyclops? and Eienna sure did have some good advice! thanks for your good advice as well.

 

[shred5]

are cyclopeese the same as cyclops? and Eienna sure did have some good advice! thanks for your good advice as well.

Yea they have a lot of names .. Cyclopeeze was the best but they are not made anymore..

 

[Eienna]

well that, and people felt misled, because their tank raised Mandarins stopped eating pellet/frozen food in a reef tank due to the competition of other fish. they'd have to be in a species tank, or seahorse tank to continue to be happy with pellets or frozen foods. in other words, they were starving, so they'd default back to crustaceans (on live rock, etc). i guess they were getting too many complaints, so they stopped selling them. i only learned this today after reading the email from ORA.

Yeah....they expected too much ease from a VERY specialized animal who is easily outcompeted for most food sources. They're tricky, captive-bred or not. The captive breeding does give you a slight edge in feeding choices, makes them more comfortable in an aquarium environment, and reduces the take from wild reefs, so it's a good choice and the way I'd go if I ever got another.
The DIY feeder in the link I gave you is a great tool for allowing them to get their share if you hatch brine shrimp. I have also heard of a concept called the "mandarin diner" where they make a little cave-thing that they put its food items in, with a hole only big enough for the mandarin and none of the other fish.

Glad I could help...and give you a chance to learn from my mistakes, lol!! When I first got mine, I knew they ate pods and I would have to buy that for him, but I didn't know how much it was gonna cost me per month x.x. Eventually he did take the pellets, as I said, and did very well on them, so I was thankfully able to wean off the pods once it was reliable.

I lost my beloved Spike in a tank crash I caused...all my fish died in one night....that was a good few years back and I still miss the handsome little guy. He's the one in my avatar.

 

[squillaempusa]

Yeah....they expected too much ease from a VERY specialized animal who is easily outcompeted for most food sources. They're tricky, captive-bred or not. The captive breeding does give you a slight edge in feeding choices, makes them more comfortable in an aquarium environment, and reduces the take from wild reefs, so it's a good choice and the way I'd go if I ever got another.
The DIY feeder in the link I gave you is a great tool for allowing them to get their share if you hatch brine shrimp. I have also heard of a concept called the "mandarin diner" where they make a little cave-thing that they put its food items in, with a hole only big enough for the mandarin and none of the other fish.

Glad I could help...and give you a chance to learn from my mistakes, lol!! When I first got mine, I knew they ate pods and I would have to buy that for him, but I didn't know how much it was gonna cost me per month x.x. Eventually he did take the pellets, as I said, and did very well on them, so I was thankfully able to wean off the pods once it was reliable.

I lost my beloved Spike in a tank crash I caused...all my fish died in one night....that was a good few years back and I still miss the handsome little guy. He's the one in my avatar.

yea, i know how it feels losing all your fish in one night. about 10 years ago i lost all of mine to a pink sea cucumber. it went into a powerhead and "nuked" the tank. i woke up to my protein skimmer going crazy, my purple tang laying on the bottom of the tank, gasping, and my beloved Marine Beta that i had for several years already dead. many other fish as well. the fire clownfish lived though, and the coral was unaffected. it was weird, the clown seemed unaffected too. just scared, hiding in the rocks. the loss almost put me out of the hobby.

anyway, the Mandarin. first one for me, due to their feeding habits. i only got this one because he supposedly didn't require pods, yet here we are. the good thing is that he's the only fish in the 40b tank, with only coral frags, and about 40 lbs of live rock or so. he's eventually going to go into a seahorse tank, once it gets set up. someone told me to put some type of plastic sponge (not live sponge) in the tank, and dose phytoplankton, and they should reproduce in the sponge. my concern is a sponge getting nasty with old food, detritus, etc. someone else suggested putting a bunch of liverock rubble in the sump and let them reproduce in there, then every few days take a piece out and place it in the display tank. idealy it would be infested with copepods, adding to the dwindling population in the tank. what are your thoughts on these processes? i'm leaning towards putting some more live rock in a section in my sump (and maybe a sponge), and dosing DT's phytoplankton.

also, how long did 1 of those small bottles of Reef Nutrition's Tiger pods last you for Spike, while not trying to culture the pods? i know you suggested Tisbe pods, but i don't believe they have them at my LFS, so i guess tiggers will have to do. in time i will prob order the Tisbes, but i need to do something tomorrow.