Tank Transfer Method questions

  • Thread starter Thread starter nrupaw
  • Start date Start date
  • Tagged users None

nrupaw

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
148
Reaction score
61
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Rating - 50%
1   1   0
I have been considering trying out TTM for new fish, and been reading up on it. had some questions regarding it, was wondering if anyone could answer these for me

Ammonia
For the folks who actively use TTM, how do you guys manage ammonia? since every transfer is pretty much in a new/steralized tank, wouldn't the fish be greatly affected my ammonia poisoning? That's a major concern of mine

I see folks recommend using the Seachem Ammonia Badge but i am sure that would still show that there is ammonia in the tank after a day or 2.

Airstone/HOB
do i need to add an airstone in the tank during TTM, or would a HOB filter be enough?

Temp
What temp is recommended during TTM?

thanks1
 
condition a filter sponge in a sterilized tank using fishless cycle and no inclusions from a running reef tank. then use only that filter for your transfers, that'll zap the ammonia a large sponge filter is massive surface area, ammonia hungry

you could have a few pounds of dry rocks + a filter sponge fully ready, measurably, in two weeks following the fishless cycle method of liquid ammonia and some bottle bac
 
condition a filter sponge in a sterilized tank using fishless cycle and no inclusions from a running reef tank. then use only that filter for your transfers, that'll zap the ammonia a large sponge filter is massive surface area, ammonia hungry

you could have a few pounds of dry rocks + a filter sponge fully ready, measurably, in two weeks following the fishless cycle method of liquid ammonia and some bottle bac

thank you.

So what you're saying is i need to cycle a tank (which i am guessing is 4-5 weeks) and put some filter sponge in there (which i think is another week or so for it to populate with nitrifying backteria), and then use that for TTM.

Seems like a long process doesn't it?

i do have a few marinepure balls/sphere in my display tank's sump. would dropping one or 2 of those in TTM tanks help with ammonia at all?
 
you could have a few pounds of dry rocks + a filter sponge fully ready, measurably, in two weeks following the fishless cycle method of liquid ammonia and some bottle bac


nope, only two weeks :)

all you do is this

get ammonium chloride and a salifert ammonia kit, not a badge

keep 1 ppm ammonia always

add bottle bac a bunch of times in small increments, doesn't matter how exact. some a few times is enough. a lot is enough

in two weeks it will be able to digest that 1 ppm to zero in 24 hours then its ready. nitrate and nitrite don't matter, only the ammonia and its digestion time per this thread:

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-ta...d-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/
 
we want to be careful about using media from a non sterile tank, brings in nasties we are trying to isolate from the new fish


** I may be misunderstanding something about your request

are you transferring whole reef to a new tank, or are you meaning the tank transfer method people use to quarantine new fish

we can always test a suspect medium for ammonia digestion by adding ammonium chloride to 1 ppm and seeing if its digested in 24 using a detailed quality test kit. other than that, its guessing.


if your goal was to just move tanks then using existing media is fine and good. if it was to quarantine for new fish that procedure is different and has you cycle up all the new material so ich isn't moved tank to tank.
 
I see folks recommend using the Seachem Ammonia Badge but i am sure that would still show that there is ammonia in the tank after a day or 2.
Assuming you start with DT water, there isn't usually much build up - not in <72hrs (which is the max a single tank will be full). The idea is to not over-feed and to be sure to siphon out any food that settles to the bottom/remains uneaten.
I've currently got a 10gal QT tank that has been up for 3 days (transfer today). It's got a ~4" coral beauty, two 3" wrasses, a 1.5" cardinal, and a coral banded shrimp - overloaded, basically. Because it's the first QT, I've done some heavy feeding to encourage good eating. And while I've siphoned out food, I've not done a great job at it. And yet; ammonia is not a problem. I don't have any filtration at all - just a heater and powerhead.

My QT/TTM round before this included a mandarin (as well as a cardinal and a hawkfish), so I pretty much kept frozen cyclopods in the tank the entire time (no siphoning). Even then, no ammonia problems.

I think the key is to start with water from your DT and not fresh-mixed water. If you do that with each new tank and are good at not over-feeding, then there shouldn't be an issue in the brief time that the tanks are up.

Keep a bottle of Prime around. If I see a problem start to arise, I add a capful to my 10gal QT and it knocks it back down. I've only had to do this in the "observation stage" (after all the transfers are done and you're just watching for issues for the remaining two weeks). Note that Prime and some other meds (eg; Prazi-Pro) are not compatible, so if you are using anything in the QT, be sure it's safe with Prime.

do i need to add an airstone in the tank during TTM, or would a HOB filter be enough?
More oxygen is good, but you may not need it for the short duration of each transfer. It's absolutely critical that anything you pull out of one tank does not go into the next one. So if you are using a HOB filter and/or an airstone, then you'll want to ensure that you have two of those. Airstones take a long time to dry (longer than 24hrs in my experience), so when I've used them I've considered them "single use" and just thrown them away after using them in a QT. A $0.50 airstone and a foot or two of airline is not worth even a single fish getting sick, much less an entire QT of fish. Same goes for HOB and/or other filter media - they take a while to dry, so you'll be going through a lot of them if you're putting one in each tank during the TTM.
Soaking a filter sponge in the DT (or sump) takes a month to really seed with enough bacteria to make a difference.

i do have a few marinepure balls/sphere in my display tank's sump. would dropping one or 2 of those in TTM tanks help with ammonia at all?
If you do use those, be sure to give them plenty of time to dry - likely weeks. Those things are (intentionally) very porous and will have a higher potential of soaking up a lot of bad stuff in a QT. I wouldn't use them, myself. As a general guideline, I don't use anything in my QT that I wouldn't be willing to throw away if needed. I usually don't throw stuff away - but that's the gauge I use.

What temp is recommended during TTM?
Lower than your DT is okay - I've been recommended to use 76/77F. At these temps, there is more oxygen in the water, which is then easier for the fish to absorb. The lower temps, as I understand it, also lowers the metabolic rate of the fish, which gives you more time to notice/react to any issues that might occur. Just be sure to raise the temp up (slowly, of course) in the final stretch of QT so that the fish are ready for your DT.

TTM seems really intimidating and daunting at first - or it did for me, at least. I've actually only done two full TTM cycles (on my third now), but I feel like I've learned a lot from just the few I've done. The stress level on this round is much lower, at least. ;-)
 
I just use Seachem Prime. You are replacing all the water every 3 days, so just need to control the ammonia.
 
we want to be careful about using media from a non sterile tank, brings in nasties we are trying to isolate from the new fish


** I may be misunderstanding something about your request

are you transferring whole reef to a new tank, or are you meaning the tank transfer method people use to quarantine new fish

we can always test a suspect medium for ammonia digestion by adding ammonium chloride to 1 ppm and seeing if its digested in 24 using a detailed quality test kit. other than that, its guessing.


if your goal was to just move tanks then using existing media is fine and good. if it was to quarantine for new fish that procedure is different and has you cycle up all the new material so ich isn't moved tank to tank.


Apologize if i wasn't clear. Not transferring a whole reef to new tank. Just considering TTM as a method to quarantine new fish. Right now i have a dedicated QT tank for new fish in which i run cupramine at therapeutic levels for fish. 4 weeks for regular fish, 6 weeks for tangs.

Been wanting to try TTM because seems the turnaround time is much shorter but ammonia has been a concern via this method
 
I've currently got a 10gal QT tank that has been up for 3 days (transfer today).

yup, i picked up 2 10 gallon tanks too from a buddy locally. Had couple heaters, and couple HOB filters

Airstones take a long time to dry
Same goes for HOB and/or other filter media - they take a while to dry,

Yes, i have those disposable airstones. was planning on chucking them away after use vs expecting them to dry. Same with filter media, wasnt expecting to dry/recycle it.

Keep a bottle of Prime

Yes, actually just bought one yesterday because i kept thinking ammonia giving me possible issues

Soaking a filter sponge in the DT (or sump) takes a month to really seed with enough bacteria to make a difference.

yes, this is what i was curious about. how long media takes to see with enough bacteria..... my thinking was since marinepure claims their blocks/spheres have a ton of supposed surface area, would a couple of seeded spheres (from my DT) be enough to fight ammonia build up for 3 days. figured i'd used couple new pieces every round of TTM.




TTM seems really intimidating and daunting at first - or it did for me, at least. I've actually only done two full TTM cycles (on my third now), but I feel like I've learned a lot from just the few I've done. The stress level on this round is much lower, at least. ;-)

TTM does seem a little daunting, esp. since i now have a better idea of nitrogen cycle etc after being in 3 years in the hobby vs, when i was a noob. So i keep thinking about every contingency i might face. 3 years ago when i had started i wouldn't even have thought about any of this stuff. Fish would have gone straight in the display tank. Was super lucky never to end up with ich doing that!!! :)

thanks again for the answers
 
Was super lucky never to end up with ich doing that!!! :)
Just to make sure it's said; you very likely DO have ich, it's just not impacting your current fish. I'm not the best one to speak to this aspect as I'm still learning myself, but the brief version is that a healthy tank creates healthy fish that can fight off ich in low concentrations, but this is not an indicator that ich is not present in the environment. You would, as I understand if, have to go fallow for 76 days and then QT everything meticulously in order to entirely eliminate it from the tank.

That's not to say that QT/TTM is not worth doing; reducing the odds of an influx of more ich being added can be the difference between continued health and a bigger problem. And there are other things to monitor during QT, of course...

How often do you use Prime? a little every day or do you drop in a little at the start of each 3 day round?
As needed. This is where the ammonia badge comes in (for me). You could measure the ammonia in the water every day using a kit, but that's going to use a lot of regents and will be a bit of a pain, IMO (not to mention taking longer). If/when I see a badge start to get green-ish (which is 0.05 - the second stage of the badge), I add a capful of Prime. This knocks it back down to yellow (<0.02 - the "safe" area). If I happen to be at a point where I'm using meds in the QT (Prazi-Pro, for example - which shouldn't be mixed with Prime), I'll do a tank change at this point instead.
 
Been wanting to try TTM because seems the turnaround time is much shorter
Note that even though TTM itself only lasts for 14 days, the suggested approach is to still do a full month in QT. This is because there are diseases that TTM does not address. Most diseases will show up within 30 days if they are going to at all, is my understanding. So, generally, you'll do TTM for 2 weeks and then observe in a QT for another 2 weeks as normal. During this final 2 weeks, I'll set up my QT with a "full kit" - including a HOB with carbon (which is removed if I need to treat anything with meds) and a few extra seeded sponges from my sump. I also spend this later 2 weeks stepping up my temp to my DT level and getting my feeding schedule matched (I do more, smaller, feedings during TTM).

FWIW; I use a Hydor Pico as the powerhead in my 10gal tanks. I've tried several and have found that this one gives enough flow to move the water, but doesn't go so high as to stress any fish out. It's adjustable (a little) so that you can run it with less flow if needed.
 
I have never had any ammonia problems even when doing TTM on a group of fish. Watch it like a hawk and be ready with Amquel or Prime but if you don't over feed and siphon out any uneaten food you should be good.

I put my fish in a cycled QT after TTM to observe, get used to me, get fat without any competition and acclimate to captive life. I want them eating well and comfortable before they go in to the DT where they will encounter competition for food and sleeping spots.

pyramid%202_zpsqhpciioy.jpg


And after making it to the DT.

 

IF YOU HAD TO TAKE A REEFING EXAM, WOULD YOU PASS?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 32 45.7%
  • Not yet, but I have one that I want to buy in mind!

    Votes: 9 12.9%
  • No.

    Votes: 26 37.1%
  • Other (please explain).

    Votes: 3 4.3%

New Posts

Back
Top