Tank Transfer

[bsbalr24]

So I started the process of filling up my new 90 gallon tank Friday. After getting it roughly 7/8 the way, heating it up to 78 degrees, and adding the rock (dry rock from the old 20g tank), I ran the filter (with one new cartridge and the old cartridge from my 20g tank) for three days. Yesterday I tested the water for everything including reef parameters and all was normal besides a slight ammonia reading. I figured that was due to the two lbs or so of live sand from my 20g tank I added on top of the new live sand. I figured it was safe to go ahead and add the fish over (hippo tang I just bought, purple firefish, neon goby, six line wrasse and a peppermint shrimp). Everything seemed normal before bed and everyone in the new tank fed just as they normally should.

Different story today. The hippo tang is covered with what appears to be ich and likely won't make it through the night. After freaking out I immediately did another complete water test and found the reading to be:

PH: 8.0
Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Nitrite: 1.0ppm
Nitrate: 5-10ppm

Is this still something to freak out about? I know a water change would be the best bet but the water was just added 6 days ago. I read and asked lfs about transferring things over and he assured me that everything should be just fine yet it's not. Thankfully I still have the 20g up and running and was wondering if I should just transfer the fish back into the old tank until the water parameters calm back down or what?

Any input would be appreciated!

 

[brandon429]

moving detritus to the new tank is the sole cause typically...it was the chemical precursor to any true ammonia readings and that stress in turn brought about ich dormant

people always say live rock death makes the ammonia spike, not the case. its sandbed detritus, or detritus within live rock pre move...always detritus rarely a death as the precursor.

the .25 reading above likely means zero, event has passed per search returns on API ammonia reading accuracy at the .25 level.

so the impact is long term regarding waste...you can either move the fish back and clean this new tank free of detritus as sandbed cleaning and begin clean, or let things settle and simply continue. either way, api ammonia cannot be reliably used at the .25 level it could mean zero, so you have to measure another way

post pics lets see the new tank, I bet its not all that bad this was just a minor nutrient turnover event I bet

it is helpful to know that in your tank transfer, you don't have to consider bacteria at all. anything you are thinking that limits them doesn't...detritus is your concern. so that means if you have to fully rinse your whole sandbed blasted clean, bacteria still remain.


by hesitating about bacteria we end up leaving in detritus...this is the loss cycle in reefing xfers

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Yea what he said. Add prime/stability for the ammonia. Its likely the detritus build up.
The Am and nutrient problems could be to blame for the fish stress. I also could be new tank stress too. Fish are weird. And fish psychology is something we dont consider enough.
I hope he pulls through.

 

[bsbalr24]

So what I'm getting is to clean out all the live sand at the bottom throughly with a vacuum then preform a water change with all the fish still remaining in the tank?

I do have a nassarius snail as well as a pearly wrasse buried somewhere under the sand at the moment. They did come up to feed this morning and looked fine as do all the other fish besides the tang.

Will post pictures momentarily.

 

[brandon429]

nope that exposes fish to waste, you'd have to either leave as is, or move the fish and restart this tank clean, no fish in tow until done. given all details id leave it as is, the spike has passed and disturbing waste w fish in there can easily redo it.

 

[bsbalr24]

Here is a picture of the tank.

 

[brandon429]

That's not bad at all, I'd change nothing and proceed try and heal him back up. Nice clean new digs! It's not dirty enough to justify stress cleaning we should just hold course

 

[bsbalr24]

Fair enough. I'll just leave as is until the spike has passed completely.

 

[bsbalr24]

Could only get a shot of those two. Six line wrasse is hidden in a rock and hippo tang is laying on his side under a rock on the bottom.

 

[bsbalr24]

What is a better test to get rather than an api?

 

[brandon429]

salifert for sure. but it should be also known, no ammonia testing is ever needed in reefing other than to begin a cycle with totally dry rocks...and to be able to test to know exactly when the cycle is done. some like to keep reliable kits on hand to see if a fish has died/rotted etc...but if I had a big reef id have an open aquascape where no dyin fish could hide (except for wrasses in sand lol, guess we have to test to know)

When dealing with living materials, ammonia generation is so predictable no testing is ever needed if you aren't medicating *and* you can account for all animals to make sure nobody is denaturing under a rock somewhere. Its that reliable. for your issue here, the only step needed to have for-sure no ammonia after the move was to move no waste into the new tank. we were free to rinse the old sand fully, even with tap water if needed (then a post rinse in saltwater obviously) and the option was there to have no clouding ability whatsoever in the new tank. the ich would have prob come anyway due to the move stress and reacclimation.

I have never owned a test kit for ammonia and never will. I will be starting many more reefs, and skipping the cycle with them by simply buying cured live rock.

 

[bsbalr24]

Ok I understand that then. Thank you.

Here's an update: I moved the hippo tang out if the tank the second he came out from the rock and he passed shortly after putting him in the old 20g that's still running.

All the other fish are out and seem just find as they all ate and are now swimming around. Here after dinner I plan to go ahead and test again except just nitrite and nitrate.

Ok so when getting new fish (which will prolly happen once all the parameters settle down a lot more) is it still ok to start them in the 20g for around a week or two to check them for feeding as well as disease before adding them to the big 90g? I just don't want another big stress move to occur with the new fish moving from a small cramped tank into a giant ecosystem with organisms already established.

 

[brandon429]

I'm not a fish specialist I'll pass on to readers with tanks large enough to house fish ha! I think they recommend a longer qt process but yes this type of dual tank transfer is common among qt'ers lets see what fish keepers have to say. I think both tanks w be infected w ich until 72 day fallow, let's see if anyone agrees

 

[phantomreefing]

I would recommend a 50% water change, obviously there is something wrong.
The test falls within normal range. But, personally I would not have used the sand from a previous tank.
I'm not sure how long you had the 20 gallon, but, overtime it builds a lot of junk.

Adding a fresh batch of saltwater should help

Best of luck!

 

[brandon429]

Also now that I zoomed in on the new tank pics I have this question

In the new tank, which surfaces brought in bacteria? I see one live rock and you mentioned half the sand was live...was it caribsea wet pack sand? Insta cycle starts imply we move enough seeded area to handle the new bioload. Am curious to recount where the live/aged surfaces were in this new receiving tank

 

[bsbalr24]

Just the one rock and the filter was brought to the new tank. Like a said a few scoops of live sand from the old was added to 60 lbs of new, and it was carib sea.

 

[bsbalr24]

Allow as Carib sea

 

[bsbalr24]

The 20g was only up and running for around 2 1/2 months.

 

[brandon429]

Yes I do believe that was sufficient bac transfer for the fish loading moved. And for the very small amount of detritus which is not a huge deal now

It's moving over the deposition levels your tank will have anyway in a few mos. the benefit of tank cleaning and detritus flushing is age reset...makes reefs live forever but it doesn't mean we can't store a little waste and then catch up now and then. Indeed I'd hold course and just figure out how to de-ich the setup, whether that's meds or fallow don't know lets see what fish aficionados say

 

[Wiz]

Seems to me you jumped the gun. The original ammo nia reading was the beginning of the cycle. Any amonia in the system means it was not breaking it down. So you should have expected the raise in nitrite and subsequently nitrate. A fully cycled tank should read no amonia no nitrite and very little to no nitrate. You now have 90g of salt water and that much more area to populate with beneficial bacteria. I would have waited at least a week or two before trying to add stock. Especially a fish that is new to your original tank. That being said the stress is most defanitly the cause of the ick. I would not worry about it to much. The hippo is a hard fish to acclimate and keep healthy to begin with. it was almost guarraunteed to fail in this situation. If the other fish show signs of ick that are bad I would qt and treat. If its not there or only a spot or two they might be ok. I personally would not leave the fish in a tank still registering nitrite. The cycle is clearly not finished. That is a lot of volume and surface area to populate in 3 days. Even with added bacteria.with added waste from fish and food it could be unstable for a bit. I also would have added one or two fish at a time. Adding that many fish at once would have caused a spike even in an established tank.
All that is obviously my opinion. You must be psyched to have a 90. Four and a half times the space is always fantastic in our Hobby. Best of luck