Tank unhappy, how does my plan look?

[starypotter]

Hi everyone,
My corals and RFA have been getting gradually less happy and I'm trying to take steps to remedy it and would like some input. I plan to do another water change once I have the water made to try to lower the MG and raise the alk. I use original Instant Ocean. What more can I do to help and what should I be doing differently?

The tank has cyano, a green slime like cyano, and GHA along with some coraline.
I only dose for all but clearly need to alter that and double check my amount is right, I run phosguard and carbon. Phosphate used to be .25

75 DT 40 sump. About 80 total gallons of water.

Testing- kit is Red Sea
March 10th numbers
Alk-6.3
Nitrate- 1.5
Phosphate .01
Calcium 370

March 23rd numbers
Alk 6.7
Nitrate 1.5
Phosphate .02
Calcium 400
Magnesium 1500

Stocking list-
Assorted shrimp, rock flower anemone, tuxedo urchin
Fish-
Green clown goby, yellow clown goby, black clown goby, yellowline goby,
pair of clownfish
Bangaii Cardinal
Corals-
Hammer, frogspawn, assorted zoas, trumpet coral, galaxia, favia, duncan, GSP, and two more I don't remember the names of at the moment.
All of the corals are unhappy, retracted in some way, shriveled, the zoas are reaching, except the duncan. The duncan is actively growing 4 new heads and shows growth daily.

 

[reeflife3]

What lights? What do use for flow?
Your numbers don’t look bad alk is a little low but your mag is fine. Maybe raise your n03 up

 

[starypotter]

What lights? What do use for flow?
Your numbers don’t look bad alk is a little low but your mag is fine. Maybe raise your n03 up

Viparspectra, they've grown happily on these lives their whole lives I've had them and I've measured growth in all of them in the past 9 months that I've had them. I have two eFlux plus the return. I'd have to look up what stats they are.

 

[brandon429]

A rip cleaning, full part cleaning, is the only thing to do if you want it done correctly. Including as much of a full water change as you're willing to do, plus sand rinse and evacuation.

Your tank is rare in that I'm familiar with its history a bit through your posts and pic updates over time, making this eval more targeted

Incremental approaches aren't ideal, but handling the tank like you would during a home move, where you intercept clean it and reset all chemistry params the right way, balanced, is your best approach. Simply kill the gha when it's taken apart vs more nutrient adjusting, corals like stability and actually not a lot of nutrient chasing. The bulk cleaning is invigorating, it's regenerative

 

[starypotter]

A rip cleaning, full part cleaning, is the only thing to do if you want it done correctly. Including as much of a full water change as you're willing to do, plus sand rinse and evacuation.

Your tank is rare in that I'm familiar with its history a bit through your posts and pic updates over time, making this eval more targeted

Incremental approaches aren't ideal, but handling the tank like you would during a home move, where you intercept clean it and reset all chemistry params the right way, balanced, is your best approach. Simply kill the gha when it's taken apart vs more nutrient adjusting, corals like stability and actually not a lot of nutrient chasing. The bulk cleaning is invigorating, it's regenerative

The tank was only put together in this current state at Christmas, my other tank had a leak and there were problems there but when I replaced the tank it got an overhaul so I'm not sure if you saw that update. I'm not sure why such an extreme measure is your recommendation here would you mind elaborating on why you think it's necessary since to me the numbers don't seem terribly off.

 

[Abdullah Al Faruq]

... to me the numbers don't seem terribly off.

So, you admit that you have parameters that are "off" and you wish to keep those corals of yours in such condition. What on earth are you trying to prove?

 

[starypotter]

So, you admit that you have parameters that are "off" and you wish to keep those corals of yours in such condition. What on earth are you trying to prove?

Did you read the comment I was replying to at all? The person told me I needed to tear down my tank and restart because my alk is about 2 off, and my magnesium is about 150 off. I am here because I know that there is something wrong. I asked for advice from the experts on this forum.
I didn't ask for my words to be taken out of context to make it look like I'm intentionally abusing these creatures.

 

[brandon429]

You’re thinking chems and measures, I’m thinking of your invasion and the stated coral health, not of params at all cuz that alk difference is harmless

The stated chem measures may not even be right, see threads where two or more testers are compared, it’s why I don’t use people’s stated measures- ever.

Below is an example of how we don’t use params to restore tanks...it’s not extreme it’s basic maintenance for invasions. Sight unseen, if you have a sandbed it will cloud if disturbed (make it seen let’s see pics if so ) and your live rocks will have casting detritus on them if disturbed / cleaned during the access phase (since you have cyano or diatoms or dinos TBD these are usually at work for the cause, GHA allowed to stay in place, hands off reefing, also mops up detritus and holds it in the plant fronds for on site feeding)

I’ve noticed over time you use hands off reefing approach regardless of the actual tank, we’re undoing that

See how well cyano responded here, those exact works:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

Drain off your tank water into a brute, clean the substrate, clean the detritus off the rocks if any, put back the water into a cloudless uninvaded tank

 

[brandon429]

every single tank was happy after we rip cleaned it above, twenty pages worth- so when I saw your thread about an unhappy tank I knew we had to source out detritus and be specific in action to a matted invader, the params were not the concern as a rip clean always resets params correctly (when we usually pair them with full or mostly full water changes, in your case put the water back as it’s not the issue)

I would also stop any form of gfo, biopellets or Carbon dosing if applicable as we didn’t use that either to get the earned results. Strictly via cleaning / surgery

 

[JOKER]

The NO3 PO4 seem too low for my liking. When my numbers get that low my coral look bad.

 

[starypotter]

The NO3 PO4 seem too low for my liking. When my numbers get that low my coral look bad.

I've noticed that as well, I've got low numbers there but I tried to stick with mostly corals that are somewhat better with less pristine conditions, I'm not really interested in SPS at the moment. I've been thinking about getting another fish, the tank looks like it's empty unless it's feeing time since my clownfish leave in the back, and all of my other fish just sit on the rocks. Maybe a somewhat increased bio load will help that since I hardly need to feed much with so few and such small fish. The clownfish aren't even full grown.

 

[starypotter]

You’re thinking chems and measures, I’m thinking of your invasion and the stated coral health, not of params at all cuz that alk difference is harmless

The stated chem measures may not even be right, see threads where two or more testers are compared, it’s why I don’t use people’s stated measures- ever.

Below is an example of how we don’t use params to restore tanks...it’s not extreme it’s basic maintenance for invasions. Sight unseen, if you have a sandbed it will cloud if disturbed (make it seen let’s see pics if so ) and your live rocks will have casting detritus on them if disturbed / cleaned during the access phase (since you have cyano or diatoms or dinos TBD these are usually at work for the cause, GHA allowed to stay in place, hands off reefing, also mops up detritus and holds it in the plant fronds for on site feeding)

I’ve noticed over time you use hands off reefing approach regardless of the actual tank, we’re undoing that

See how well cyano responded here, those exact works:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ead-aka-one-against-many.230281/#post-2681445

Drain off your tank water into a brute, clean the substrate, clean the detritus off the rocks if any, put back the water into a cloudless uninvaded tank

Every day, or every other day someone, either myself or my mom, is in there basting the rocks, scraping the walls, and removing what we can. My husbandry from 6 months ago isn't what it is today. I will post something shortly showing the current state of the tank shortly. When I say that I have cyano and GHA, I don't mean my tank is a GHA and cyano farm (At least not by the standards I've seen on here for some really overrun tanks), though I completely understand that without pictures that could be a safe assumption when dealing with tank problems online.

 

[starypotter]

Here's a look at the tank, please forgive the mess on the outside ;Doctor I haven't cleaned up since testing the parameters

 

[brandon429]

Ok I’m sold it’s not that bad

It’s really nice, in fact well done tape a credit card or razor blade scraper to the end of a decent diameter siphon hose, scrape down and slowly remove every bit off the back walls trying not to disperse

Well done on making rear room access / rock in balance and accessible

Agreed your sb doesn’t look pocketed or bad at all i can’t even see invader but I know in person you can / details

I’d reduce white lighting levels below current steady state, white is stressing to already stressed corals and doesn’t hurt to downtune at times. I’m having to do it to regenerate a blasto colony that nearly bleached.

Target feed corals vs putting food into the tank...take same daily feed allotment and cup it / Inject near it w pumps off or into a plastic inverted cup over a given coral occasionally, boxing it in for feed

This doesn’t add more food it uses it targeted. Move around each week new area...lastly, what little gha on the rocks don’t chemically chase it, the gha is merely patch worked it’s not on every crevice. It needed only a parrotfish to happen by and eat it plus the anchor base. Lift out the rocks and set them on a towel on the counter, knife out the algae w precision via tip scraping, then dab peroxide on the cleaned spot to burn leftovers and put back. It’s still manual control, independent from nutrients and testing, it’s target centric and certain to work. Safe too

Very nice reef
I’d simply hand remove the cyano and the white lighting adjust w help with it

 

[starypotter]

Ok I’m sold it’s not that bad

It’s really nice, in fact well done tape a credit card or razor blade scraper to the end of a decent diameter siphon hose, scrape down and slowly remove every bit off the back walls trying not to disperse

Well done on making rear room access / rock in balance and accessible

Agreed your sb doesn’t look pocketed or bad at all i can’t even see invader but I know in person you can / details

I’d reduce white lighting levels below current steady state, white is stressing to already stressed corals and doesn’t hurt to downtune at times. I’m having to do it to regenerate a blasto colony that nearly bleached.

Target feed corals vs putting food into the tank...take same daily feed allotment and cup it / Inject near it w pumps off or into a plastic inverted cup over a given coral occasionally, boxing it in for feed

This doesn’t add more food it uses it targeted. Move around each week new area...lastly, what little gha on the rocks don’t chemically chase it, the gha is merely patch worked it’s not on every crevice. It needed only a parrotfish to happen by and eat it plus the anchor base. Lift out the rocks and set them on a towel on the counter, knife out the algae w precision via tip scraping, then dab peroxide on the cleaned spot to burn leftovers and put back. It’s still manual control, independent from nutrients and testing, it’s target centric and certain to work. Safe too

Very nice reef
I’d simply hand remove the cyano and the white lighting adjust w help with it

So I just went to lower the whites, they were already at 2%. Blue is at 30%. Should I just try to kill the white all together for a bit to give them a chance to recover? Lower the blues as well?

Can you clarify what you mean by "invader" you used it a few times and I'm not entirely sure what you mean so I can't really go looking for myself

My mom usually goes in there a few times a week with a razor and scrapes the walls only while she does that she goes in with a fine mesh net to scoop it out as it floats around. The next water change I'll make sure to just siphon everything out as much as I can.

We usually feed corals a couple time a week, but since they've started closing up it's been less since they're not really accepting of meaty food. I'll try target feeding with something more like reef roids as well.

I also have a rock flower anemone, will some of these changes help it as well since right now it frequently curls up on itself like it's crying to eat it's little fingers.

 

[brandon429]

These actions are neat because you can run them on a perfectly fine system and nothing is harmed, they’re really good fall back tank tuning approaches. The invader is the undetermined cyano or whichever needs to be siphoned out, the gha on the rocks is easiest just to spot kill as above vs changing tank nutrient balances on a system clearly running well and with good quality live rock. I would keep some whites not full zero, if it’s already this way then we can look to basic feeding and water changes to regenerate corals over time and lower intensity overall just a bit, just a change from current steady state

it’s reliable for sure not to have to add extra feed but rather target dose the feed that is given even if they seem not to take, this could get some food to specimens possibly and it’s safer than changing params before we know what’s wrong. These actions can be applied to tanks that aren’t in any state of flux so I like to use those options. Big tanks have less headaches when a large uv sterilizer is plumbed in but that’s costly agreed, these manual removal options are safe to work with and I think nutrient adjusting isn’t the best approach since that tank looks like it was running well recently, the water change or take down approach where possible just removes all waste if any from the sandbed, recent updates to that thread show jobs we did with total invader stoppage outcome

 

[starypotter]

These actions are neat because you can run them on a perfectly fine system and nothing is harmed, they’re really good fall back tank tuning approaches. The invader is the undetermined cyano or whichever needs to be siphoned out, the gha on the rocks is easiest just to spot kill as above vs changing tank nutrient balances on a system clearly running well and with good quality live rock. I would keep some whites not full zero, if it’s already this way then we can look to basic feeding and water changes to regenerate corals over time and lower intensity overall just a bit, just a change from current steady state

it’s reliable for sure not to have to add extra feed but rather target dose the feed that is given even if they seem not to take, this could get some food to specimens possibly and it’s safer than changing params before we know what’s wrong. These actions can be applied to tanks that aren’t in any state of flux so I like to use those options. Big tanks have less headaches when a large uv sterilizer is plumbed in but that’s costly agreed, these manual removal options are safe to work with and I think nutrient adjusting isn’t the best approach since that tank looks like it was running well recently, the water change or take down approach where possible just removes all waste if any from the sandbed, recent updates to that thread show jobs we did with total invader stoppage outcome

I see what you mean. Frankly the GHA and cyano doesn't bother me all too much, I blast it away because I know it can do harm but it's mostly just the corals being closed up that I'm most concerned about. I'll try these some of these methods and do a water change and hopefully it'll improve.

 

[Abdullah Al Faruq]

Did you read the comment I was replying to at all? The person told me I needed to tear down my tank and restart because my alk is about 2 off, and my magnesium is about 150 off. I am here because I know that there is something wrong. I asked for advice from the experts on this forum.
I didn't ask for my words to be taken out of context to make it look like I'm intentionally abusing these creatures.

I apologise for sounding rude. It may have been due to my misinterpretation causing such instant reaction.

 

[Stigigemla]

I believe the tank was going good when it was going good.
That means the light, the circulation and the water was good.
If You didnt change light and circulation just before the problems began it means something must have happened with the water.
The problems were slowly accelerating so I dont believe it can have been something anyone happened to drop in the tank like tobacco or other poisonous things we humans consume.
It can be something of metal that is slowly poisoning the water. A hose clamp, a brass screw someone happened to drop in the tank.
Or a broken heater or a faulty pump. Such things can You check first with a careful look of everything thats visible in the tank and sump and if needed via an ICP test from Triton or ATI.
If You only have artificial live rock it can be that the stones are clogged with detritus. That typically happens after a year or 2.
Just one real live rock from the Sea or a fellow reefer with a lot of life in the stones will support the rest of the stones with life diversity in a month or 2.
If the problems have to do with chemical warfare between corals active carbon might help. The ICP test dont see such poisons.
If it has with metals to do polyfilter or cuprisorb might help but You have to find the source of the metals and taket it away first.
I wouldnt do anything about the cyano or hair algae now. The tank has problems enough.
I would also return the light settings back to where it was. But slowly so the corals will not get schocked.