Tank Upgrade Decision Paralysis

[PandorasChalk]

My wife has been asking me over and over to finally upgrade my reef tank, so I am biting the bullet and getting it done. Unfortunately I am at a crossroads on which path to take, and I figured asking the Reef community for input would be best since I'm still fairly green on saltwater.

On lights I am thinking dual Kessil A360x, which will probably be overkill but if I want to do SPS eventually I think it would be a good move out of the gate. The other choice was dual Ai HD 16s, which is half the price, but I also feel like it's half the light (I am probably wrong on this). I went cheap on my 14 gallon and I feel I am paying a bit of a price for it as the light constantly forgets what light settings it is at, resulting in suddenly popping on at 100% everything and giving the corals a rough go of it.

When it comes to tank + filtration is where I am really getting held up on. I want to do it 'right' out of the gate. When I assembled my 14 gallon, I failed to account for things down the line like special levels of maintenance and equipment needed.

Option A: 60 Breeder with Canister
I have a Fluval 307 new in box chilling out not being used. I thought about getting a 60 Breeder and hooking it up. I know canisters can get dirty fast, which would be okay for me since I do tank maintenance weekly on all of our tanks (mostly FW) and they have canisters. My biggest reason on avoiding this route is I'd need to hang on the back of the tank any skimmer I may buy, or additional equipment.

Option B: 60 Breeder with Sump
I am also considering getting the tank and attempting to drill it. The cost going this route will be a bit more, as the stand I want to use lacks space under it to place a sump of proper size for such a large tank plus I'd need to buy extra equipment and build a sump proper. That all said, being able to truly hide everything would be amazing, and this is the path I am leaning towards even though the cost will jump 3-500 dollars. I can also do a refugium which would be nice as I want to have a healthy pod population for a future mandarin.

The last thing is the stand. My wife was looking at the stands from PetSmart (the newer ones that have some heft, we use them for our 75 gallon axolotl tanks) and they are nice stands, but they have almost no space for a sump. Does anyone have any stand suggestions? I can build my own, but it would need to look real nice to be permitted in the living room (which I can also do, but I want to avoid building if possible).

Appreciate any feedback anyone can send my way!

 

[SPS2020]

"My wife has been asking me over and over to finally upgrade my reef tank"

Wish we all had that problem! LOL

 

[SPS2020]

The first thing I would suggest is to set a budget. Then do your research. Get the best tank you can afford (it will be the cheapest piece after everything is done). I would definitely suggest a sump, not canister. You won't need lights for a while, so you can research that along the way. Search R2R for similar threads\questions as there are quite a bit out there for your reference.

 

[PandorasChalk]

"My wife has been asking me over and over to finally upgrade my reef tank"

Wish we all had that problem! LOL

Right now the 14 gallon is in my office and she likes to come in and watch the clownfish do what clownfish do (weird things). Downstairs is axolotl central and I think she wants me to have a bigger tank again since my 90 freshwater I tore down a few months ago since the tank was failing. Now my 'personal' tanks are just a 32, a 9, and a 14 while she has a 40, 20, and 2 72s.

 

[PatW]

I would advise a sump. It keeps all the equipment out of sight and gives you more options like Protein Skimmer, Filter Socks, Refugium etc.

For dridling the tank, it is probably best to get the local fish store to do it. Also, you might check on the tanks they have for sale. You might be able to get a deal on a similar tank with sump, cabinet and drilled tank. Or you can look for a used tank on Craigslist.

For the stand, you might be better off making your own if you are the least bit handy. There are plans for aquarium stands with instructions readily available.

 

[Cell]

Given the options, nobody here is going to choose a canister over a sump. Lots of stand options that can look nice depending on budget and style.

 

[X-37B]

Sumps are great. I have had them on all my systems. I started an aio nano cube 3 months ago and it is very simple to run. Nothing but media in a basket.

Tanks and stands are a personel preference. I just took down my 120 and replaced it with an 80. I can now work in the tank standing on the ground. Stand is 36".

Lights are another personel preference.
I have ran halides on all my systems for 30+ years.
That said I just switched my 45g frag system to 3 16hds. I was running halides. I setup my nano cube with 2-16hds and was very impressed so I will be running them on my 80g growout also.

 

[JumboShrimp]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!! Your wife is asking you to upgrade your tank?

Where did you FIND this woman???

 

[PandorasChalk]

The first thing I would suggest is to set a budget. Then do your research. Get the best tank you can afford (it will be the cheapest piece after everything is done). I would definitely suggest a sump, not canister. You won't need lights for a while, so you can research that along the way. Search R2R for similar threads\questions as there are quite a bit out there for your reference.

Budget is about 1800 for lights/tank/sump. I have been doing some pretty heavy research and it as with all things it's hard to really pin down what's helpful or what is not. I agree though, I really love the idea of a sump and while I know it's doable to run everything off a canister, I am not personally married to the idea.

I would advise a sump. It keeps all the equipment out of sight and gives you more options like Protein Skimmer, Filter Socks, Refugium etc.

For dridling the tank, it is probably best to get the local fish store to do it. Also, you might check on the tanks they have for sale. You might be able to get a deal on a similar tank with sump, cabinet and drilled tank. Or you can look for a used tank on Craigslist.

For the stand, you might be better off making your own if you are the least bit handy. There are plans for aquarium stands with instructions readily available.

I am considering having an LFS drill it, while I've drilled glass for work many, many times in the past, I also know that it will be my luck and I'll make a 180 dollar mistake. I have tools and know-how to make a stand, and I'm not scared to, but I wanted to check the market first before I get everything pulled out and the garage converted for woodworking.

Given the options, nobody here is going to choose a canister over a sump. Lots of stand options that can look nice depending on budget and style.

My wife kept swearing a 'majority of reefers' use canisters and yet everywhere I look it's sump city. I just wanted to make sure I was not crazy!

Sumps are great. I have had them on all my systems. I started an aio nano cube 3 months ago and it is very simple to run. Nothing but media in a basket.

Tanks and stands are a personel preference. I just took down my 120 and replaced it with an 80. I can now work in the tank standing on the ground. Stand is 36".

Lights are another personel preference.
I have ran halides on all my systems for 30+ years.
That said I just switched my 45g frag system to 3 16hds. I was running halides. I setup my nano cube with 2-16hds and was very impressed so I will be running them on my 80g growout also.

Beautiful tank! On the 16HDs is it easy to share the lighting schedule between them? I have Fluval lights and sharing the same lighting schedule between them is harder than fighting a bear.

 

[WVNed]

Order a custom with a cabinet and stand. It will come with the holes.
Buy a stand and drill the tank.
I have done both. It really depends on you.
Some shops will drill a tank for you if you buy it there or drill your tank for a price.
Change your choices and buy a reef ready tank package with a stand.

decisions decisions

Cannisters. Yes they work but you have to maintain them about 2-3 times as often as a FW system.
You are locked into what you can do also.
A sump isn't a filter. It's just a second body of water where you put equipment to do things and you dont have to look at it. You can change what is in it over time as needs change.
You can make one of those yourself out of another tank and glass, find premade baffle kits or buy one already made.

 

[PandorasChalk]

WAIT, WAIT, WAIT!!! Your wife is asking you to upgrade your tank?

Where did you FIND this woman???

All it took was her really enjoying how my shrimp tank looked with the plants and life and suddenly she was knee deep in the waters. I'd wager her tanks look better than mine!

 

[X-37B]

Budget is about 1800 for lights/tank/sump. I have been doing some pretty heavy research and it as with all things it's hard to really pin down what's helpful or what is not. I agree though, I really love the idea of a sump and while I know it's doable to run everything off a canister, I am not personally married to the idea.



I am considering having an LFS drill it, while I've drilled glass for work many, many times in the past, I also know that it will be my luck and I'll make a 180 dollar mistake. I have tools and know-how to make a stand, and I'm not scared to, but I wanted to check the market first before I get everything pulled out and the garage converted for woodworking.



My wife kept swearing a 'majority of reefers' use canisters and yet everywhere I look it's sump city. I just wanted to make sure I was not crazy!



Beautiful tank! On the 16HDs is it easy to share the lighting schedule between them? I have Fluval lights and sharing the same lighting schedule between them is harder than fighting a bear.

I run 2 on my nano cube and 3 on my frag system. They are all linked. The app is super simple to run, imo.
Also a compamy called Luxdium is making replacement/upgrade puck for under $100. So you can upgrade them in the future without having to purchase a new system.

 

[mynd]

Save your money for now, learn about things like bean overflows and the others. Anything could work, but a sump for SPS is really your best option and even more option something that will last for some time. Consider your requirements. I will try and explain this easily, but it won't be easy

Everything is math. Period, have a separate area for your skimmer so that the water level never changes is only determined by the skimmer you get and you want the best you can afford out the gate but then you are restricted to use that skimmer in a certain depth of water.. I gave that example first in hope the rest will make sense.

at tank that is 18.5 inches from front to back is a waste. Truly a waste.. It's garbage. You would be better off with a 90 at 48x24. At least with the depth of 24 which is front to back not top to bottom (who knows) you have room for rock, the ability to clean, your rock is not against the back wall and you still have room in front of the rock for other things.

Then you need to consider a closed loop system which requires at least 3 holes so that in the event of a power outtage your flow can still be moving to some degree for awhile as long as you have a battery backup on the closed loop.

You need to know the distance from the top of the water to bottom of the first return from the sump and then figure the amount of water that will drain into the sump if the power goes out. You need to make sure that when the power comes on that the water in the sump can return to the main tank and restart the overflow, which is why I made the suggestions above..

Buying a tank that is not drilled and trying to drill it and then get parts for it and then hopefully not cracking the glass on your first attempt is just stupid.

Save your money get a custom tank after you figure out all the other crap that you need to consider, some of which I mentioned above..

a closed loop system properly done can maintain enough flow in your tank for sps without the addition of crappy wavemakers and pumps in the tank with cords hanging all over the place. The sump can they do exactly what it needs to do and clean your water. The flow of the sump should not even have to be more then 150GPH. This allows the skimmer to do its job and also allows the heater or the chiller in the sump to guarantee proper temps. It also allows for pods to grow in maybe a small cheato area of the sump.. So many options..

Don't waste your money on attempts.. Figure out the math and then save up the money and then you will certainly be happy with the tank.

Your tank is not suppose to be a test area. We are suppose to be saving the reefs, not killing them in our tanks by trying different things and seeing what doesn't work.

 

[ReefGeezer]

If you are going to upgrade, do it right the first time: Buy a tank that already has an overflow built in; Buy a stand you like; Select or build a sump with a decent center refugium area; and use as much live rock as you can afford.

Remember, if you buy cheap, you will probably buy twice. You may need to reevaluate your budget.

 

[PandorasChalk]

Save your money for now, learn about things like bean overflows and the others. Anything could work, but a sump for SPS is really your best option and even more option something that will last for some time. Consider your requirements. I will try and explain this easily, but it won't be easy

Everything is math. Period, have a separate area for your skimmer so that the water level never changes is only determined by the skimmer you get and you want the best you can afford out the gate but then you are restricted to use that skimmer in a certain depth of water.. I gave that example first in hope the rest will make sense.

at tank that is 18.5 inches from front to back is a waste. Truly a waste.. It's garbage. You would be better off with a 90 at 48x24. At least with the depth of 24 which is front to back not top to bottom (who knows) you have room for rock, the ability to clean, your rock is not against the back wall and you still have room in front of the rock for other things.

Then you need to consider a closed loop system which requires at least 3 holes so that in the event of a power outtage your flow can still be moving to some degree for awhile as long as you have a battery backup on the closed loop.

You need to know the distance from the top of the water to bottom of the first return from the sump and then figure the amount of water that will drain into the sump if the power goes out. You need to make sure that when the power comes on that the water in the sump can return to the main tank and restart the overflow, which is why I made the suggestions above..

Buying a tank that is not drilled and trying to drill it and then get parts for it and then hopefully not cracking the glass on your first attempt is just stupid.

Save your money get a custom tank after you figure out all the other crap that you need to consider, some of which I mentioned above..

a closed loop system properly done can maintain enough flow in your tank for sps without the addition of crappy wavemakers and pumps in the tank with cords hanging all over the place. The sump can they do exactly what it needs to do and clean your water. The flow of the sump should not even have to be more then 150GPH. This allows the skimmer to do its job and also allows the heater or the chiller in the sump to guarantee proper temps. It also allows for pods to grow in maybe a small cheato area of the sump.. So many options..

Don't waste your money on attempts.. Figure out the math and then save up the money and then you will certainly be happy with the tank.

Your tank is not suppose to be a test area. We are suppose to be saving the reefs, not killing them in our tanks by trying different things and seeing what doesn't work.

The flow/drain math I am pretty confident on since I used to work with pools/ponds/pumps and had to deal with how water is the enemy of anything around it and how to keep it under control. I've been researching the actual "get water from point A to point B" for a few months now in regards to a sump and the benefits of every drain type. I've been sitting on the money since November last year because I don't want to make a mistake or have to catch my own tail later down the road.

There was actually a 90 gallon tank I was considering that was similar dimensions that you listed (a little longer, 30 inches, and shorter than a standard rect 90). I feel like 18" depth from front to back would be fine, but the more I think about it, more space the better and I have the room for 24" front to back easily.

If you are going to upgrade, do it right the first time: Buy a tank that already has an overflow built in; Buy a stand you like; Select or build a sump with a decent center refugium area; and use as much live rock as you can afford.

Remember, if you buy cheap, you will probably buy twice. You may need to reevaluate your budget.

This is another thing I am considering since I am going to a few LFSes this weekend to look around, and a few online have been catching my eye. It's been the paralysis part of the whole ordeal: the part of me that's DIY crying to my reasonable side to 'save the money' and do the plumbing/cutting myself since I know how, while the reasonable side reminds me what my time is worth and how just buying a kit tank ready to go will save potential headaches down the road (a lesson I learned in freshwater). The Fiji 75 kit with the tank/stand with drilled overflows is more than budget but would still be doable, and I'd even be able to get my own sump still.

As for live rock I have about 350 dollars set aside for live rock. I'd like all live rock, but if not possible as much as I can get. I plan on getting dry rock and putting it in a tub for a few months before the tank goes up (this all all 3-6 months out, my goal to set it up in November).

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think I am going to go for a sump with it pre-drilled with better dimensions than the 60!

 

[Bpb]

"My wife has been asking me over and over to finally upgrade my reef tank"

Wish we all had that problem! LOL

No kidding. Rub it in why don’t you?

 

[ReefGeezer]

...the part of me that's DIY crying to my reasonable side to 'save the money' and do the plumbing/cutting myself since I know how, while the reasonable side reminds me what my time is worth and how just buying a kit tank ready to go will save potential headaches down the road (a lesson I learned in freshwater). The Fiji 75 kit with the tank/stand with drilled overflows is more than budget but would still be doable, and I'd even be able to get my own sump still.

As for live rock I have about 350 dollars set aside for live rock. I'd like all live rock, but if not possible as much as I can get. I plan on getting dry rock and putting it in a tub for a few months before the tank goes up (this all all 3-6 months out, my goal to set it up in November).

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think I am going to go for a sump with it pre-drilled with better dimensions than the 60!

I built a sump 20 years ago and only replaced it about 2 months back. I bought one this time because I found plexiglass to be so expensive that I wasn't really saving much. I didn't want glass. I would just bite the bullet and buy a decent sump. I chose a Trigger Systems 36 from BRS for my 90. It was about $250 delivered I think... on sale. Sorry, yep... more money.

A big yes to buying live rock and preparing it in a tub. Not live rock from someone's tank or at an LFS, but ocean cultured/harvested live rock. Tampa Bay Saltwater and KP Aquatics are good suppliers for live rock & sand. Your budget would get you about 35-40 lbs. The article I have linked in my signature speaks to preparing live rock. Check it out.

 

[WVNed]

Math???
Reef tanks are pure obsession
Just one little nanocube and it’s over. You are hooked

 

[Petcrazyson]

My wife has been asking me over and over to finally upgrade my reef tank, so I am biting the bullet and getting it done. Unfortunately I am at a crossroads on which path to take, and I figured asking the Reef community for input would be best since I'm still fairly green on saltwater.

On lights I am thinking dual Kessil A360x, which will probably be overkill but if I want to do SPS eventually I think it would be a good move out of the gate. The other choice was dual Ai HD 16s, which is half the price, but I also feel like it's half the light (I am probably wrong on this). I went cheap on my 14 gallon and I feel I am paying a bit of a price for it as the light constantly forgets what light settings it is at, resulting in suddenly popping on at 100% everything and giving the corals a rough go of it.

When it comes to tank + filtration is where I am really getting held up on. I want to do it 'right' out of the gate. When I assembled my 14 gallon, I failed to account for things down the line like special levels of maintenance and equipment needed.

Option A: 60 Breeder with Canister
I have a Fluval 307 new in box chilling out not being used. I thought about getting a 60 Breeder and hooking it up. I know canisters can get dirty fast, which would be okay for me since I do tank maintenance weekly on all of our tanks (mostly FW) and they have canisters. My biggest reason on avoiding this route is I'd need to hang on the back of the tank any skimmer I may buy, or additional equipment.

Option B: 60 Breeder with Sump
I am also considering getting the tank and attempting to drill it. The cost going this route will be a bit more, as the stand I want to use lacks space under it to place a sump of proper size for such a large tank plus I'd need to buy extra equipment and build a sump proper. That all said, being able to truly hide everything would be amazing, and this is the path I am leaning towards even though the cost will jump 3-500 dollars. I can also do a refugium which would be nice as I want to have a healthy pod population for a future mandarin.

The last thing is the stand. My wife was looking at the stands from PetSmart (the newer ones that have some heft, we use them for our 75 gallon axolotl tanks) and they are nice stands, but they have almost no space for a sump. Does anyone have any stand suggestions? I can build my own, but it would need to look real nice to be permitted in the living room (which I can also do, but I want to avoid building if possible).

Appreciate any feedback anyone can send my way!

Nice to see you are back in the hobby. I have an established 4 foot 91 gallon tank with sump and plumbing if you would like? Comes with all needed to set up.