Tear it all down and start over?

[kalina174]

Hello everyone!

I am new to reef tanks and I am trying to figure out if I should tear my tank down and start again or where to go next. Our tank was doing well for the first 2-3 months until we got Dino. It was confirmed by microscope and since then our tank has tanked (ha). So far I have lost a blasto and a 4 polyp hammer colony, an Illuminati zoa, a dozen snails/crabs/brittle stars, a 6 line, an algae blenny, and the rest of our LPS (2 acans, blasto, and a frog spawn) are looking like they are on their way out. I am debating on breaking down the tank and selling everything, restarting the tank, or just letting the tank sit for a few months and do nothing to it to see if the Dino will just run it's course and be done with it.

Current occupants are:
Clown
Cleaner shrimp
4 polyp Toxic Agave colony
20+ poylp Utter Chaos colonies
12+ polyp Radioactive Dragon Eye colony
18+ polyp WWC Superstar zoa colony
3 polyp Blue eye girl zoa
2 Acan colonies
4polyp frogspawn colony
1 Darth Maul Chalice

So the question is do I 1) remove the sand bed and see if that helps my system combat dino 2) Break it all down, dip and quarantine the frags, throw away the rock/sand, and start again with new rock/sand or 3) break it down, sell the dry goods, and save my sanity. We've spent $2,000+ on this set up and I'd hate to break it down when only my zoas are thriving but nothing I have done has beaten the Dino and it's coming back now with a vengeance. In the last 4 days the dino is now covering the rocks and aggravating my corals so I'm not sure how long it'll be until my zoas start to tank too. Any help would be great.

Here's a timeline of our tank for anyone who would like to read the saga. It's a 20g Nuvo Fusion tank. We are currently running a Hydra 26 light (50% blues/purples and no red/green/white) for 10hrs a day. Parameters are pH=8, Nitrates/Phosphates=0, Alk=10.5. Haven't tested for the rest but we do a 2 gallon water change every week using RedSea Coral Pro salt. No skimmer and not running any carbon or GFO at the moment.

Sept 2017: Set up Nuvo Fusion 20 with live rock, live sand, and a Hydra 26 (blues/purples at 70% power, red/white at 10%). Temp at 78 and stable. No skimmer. Tank cycled for 30 days before we added anything to the tank.
October 2017: Added a clown fish, cleaner shrimp, a few zoas, a frogspawn, and an acan. 5 gallon water changes were done every week (BRS RO/DI unit and Res Sea Coral Pro salt). Livestock was added spaced out.
Early November 2017: Added an algae blenny, another acan, more zoas, and the hammer. 5 gallon water changes were done every week (BRS RO/DI unit and Res Sea Coral Pro salt). Livestock was added spaced out.
Late November 2017: Dino showed up. 5 gallon water changes were done every week (BRS RO/DI unit and Res Sea Coral Pro salt).
December 2017: Added 6 line wrasse before we knew we had dino (thought diatoms). Dino confirmed by microscope mid December. Stopped all water changes because of Dino. Tried just doing 3 day blackouts with no luck. Added peroxide dosing (2ml every day) mid December as per our local LFS.
January 2018: Did a water change and then started DinoX for 21 days. Followed the directions and paired this with one 3day blackout at the beginning. Dino receded a ton but not gone (confirmed by microscope) Corals seemed really stressed so we did nothing to the tank (other than water changes) for a month. Lost all brittle stars in live rock and the algae blenny
February 2018: Decided to just let Dino run it's course. It was suggested to lower our Hydra 26 (blues/purples at 50% power, no red/white) but increase biodiversity in the tank (recommendation from World Wild Coral). Began adding copepods weekly. Corals began to recover and we saw the frogspawn split and the zoas recover. Dino still littered the sand and increasing slowly.
March 2018: Dino not getting better so added Vibrant to increase biodiversity further (1.5 ml 2x a week). Lost our Illuminati zoa (ugh!) and Turbo snail
April 2018: Seeing a slight increase in Dino so we kept up with everything but increased Vibrant to every other day 2ml as per the company that makes Vibrant. Kept adding copepods and Ocean Magik. Zoas are taking OVER. Our WWC Superstar went from 4 polyps to 20 in a month. All remaining LPS is unhappy and won't open fully. Lost our hammer, blasto, Astrea (sp?) snail, 6 line wrasse, and two turbo snails. Seeded the tank with new brittle stars only to lose them too.

Dino in full swing

 

[nautical_nathaniel]

From the picture, it doesn't look like you're at the point of no return, in fact I think it would be more advantageous for you to try and tackle this issue and learn how to combat it so it doesn't get as severe in the future.

Take a moment to read through this thread: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/

It has a ton of useful information and first-hand accounts from fellow reefkeepers

 

[WVNed]

If you started over what would you do different? Diatoms are part of the marine ecosystem. They will always be there. The trick is to not encourage them to grow by making a perfect environment for them. Low flow, high lighting and nutrients and you get a red tide bloom in your tank.
I have read the dino threads here. There is no consensus on what works every time to get rid of them.

Cutting lighting and limiting nutrients does help but it also impacts all the tank inhabitants and I don't think you will ever both get low enough if you have both coral and fish.
If we are stuck with nutrients because of feeding the fish and lighting because of feeding the coral that leaves flow as the variable we can change in a mixed reef.

What are you using for flow? I would greatly increase it. To something like 40-50 times per hour for a while, maybe more. How much will depend on your sand. You want it almost moving and drifting. I hit 87 times an hour on a 56 gallon tank for a week with a Jebao PP-15 and 2 MP-10s. The mats will break up. You can stir small sections and then siphon out the clumps. I use a 1/2 inch PVC pipe stuck in a piece of vinyl tubing and do it during a water change. The flow will suspend the diatoms and then a skimmer will remove them. Once you beat it back you reduce the flow gradually and work on the diversity.
As for pods. I have added them 6 times and still don't see any. The other thing my tank lacks are the tiny featherdusters that filter feed. I haven't found a way to get them yet. I do have a few but they haven't multiplied at all yet.
Before the storm

during the storm

Now
The higher flow end of my tank is clear but tinging comes back at times with a 10% change in the setting of my pumps.

and the lower flow end still has problems. I have a second gyre pump coming and think it will make this go away.

I am still getting some brown tinging but my CUC is working on it now instead of hiding.

I am using Vibrant as well and see some benefit to it. I use the recommended dose every 5 days

 

[brandon429]

you can tell R2R isn't going to let you down without a good attempt at save lol


there are many ways to reword this tank and not lose it. this is no invasion to cause egress agreed, ive seen two thousand far worse.


I use a certain method of tank restoration that involves you taking apart the entire tank in a certain order we've documented out to about 12 pages now, and installing it all back clean using certain cheats along the way. It works like this: Monday, invaded. Tuesday, not invaded, ---> through 90 day bootcamp ending in july ish it never gets invaded again. 24 hours to total change

The 90 day bootcamp portion is you hand removing the invader back using tank siphon and partial water changes as it tries, but fails, to regain a grip here like it has now.

No invasion is one off cured and sustained, the key is how long can you get in between workings. Your tank has zero workings and is only that bad above, it could be worse for sure. Given some workings, after a true cleaning and de invasion, it will be easy to fix and wont be much work past the 90 day turnaround phase. the #1 thing your tank needs is simple, its not an additive nor a parameter adjustment, it just needs to be cleaned and guided back after that clean.



B

 

[Moonfruit777]

FWIW... this was my old 55G reef after a copper got into the tank... it was horrible and heartbreaking while I lost almost every invertebrate.
Not giving up is part of this hobby - besides your tank looks nothing like it needs to be reset!
I am sure you can turn it around!

This is the transition my tank went through

Dezember 2014


March 2015


October 2015


August 2016



This is my upgraded 125
Mai 2018



My ideas for you right now:
- maybe remove some sand... <= 1" sand should be enough
- get an ICP test done and see if there are any Silicates and phosphates or anything else out of whack (maybe from the rocks or the sand)

IMO most important: just do your routine and keep things stable (salinity, alk, ca) + don't put your hands in the tank too often.
find solutions; but don't change everything that you THINK causes the problem, one thing at a time and see if it helps
changing too much at once can cause you more headache than you have right now (I talk from experience... you get desperate if things go
bad and you try to fix it with any possible way you can think of)

Good luck and success with your tank !

 

[freshy&salty]

At 4 months in, it sounds like a normal cycling of the water to me. Youll get different outbreaks throughout the first 6 - 8 months IMO. Most call it the "ugly stage" and all new tanks go through it. Im a huge believer in flow being the best weapon against the ugly stage. It will die off on its own as your tank continues to cycle. Watch your perams and keep on your cleaning routine, everything will workout as your water "settles" and it will continue to get easier and easier as you pickup more tricks and techniques.

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