Terrible Profilux performance

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

I would never succumb to give anyone anything less than the best!

There’s WiFi issues? I’ve never noticed any. Hmm, must be an issue with your WiFi.

My wifi has issues just like everyone else that buys a ghl and then swears for weeks at it just trying to get it on wifi... lol...

Funny how hydros and apex dont have wifi issues though... hmmm...

GHL instead of thinking they're the best, and spending all of its time on "tickets", should fix their wifi and crappy software and stop blaming peoples wifi--its total 1990's thing to do; if a company today, a decade after wifi is popular, cant make a product that connects to EVERYONES wifi in like 2 minutes by entering password, they should just pack it up and quit...

Ghl probably woukd have ion directors to everyone by now--except their spending all their time on customer wifi tickets... hahaha

 

[csund]

Whoa whoa slow down. GHL please don’t do anything so rash! There are those of us that have zero issues with your products and would love to keep using them for years to come.

Please, they can’t help it that they’re the best!

Hmm, that’s interesting. First I’ve heard of it. Must be your WiFi!

 

[csund]

My wifi has issues just like everyone else that buys a ghl and then swears for weeks at it just trying to get it on wifi... lol...

Funny how hydros and apex dont have wifi issues though... hmmm...

GHL instead of thinking they're the best, and spending all of its time on "tickets", should fix their wifi and crappy software and stop blaming peoples wifi--its total 1990's thing to do; if a company today, a decade after wifi is popular, cant make a product that connects to EVERYONES wifi in like 2 minutes by entering password, they should just pack it up and quit...

Ghl probably woukd have ion directors to everyone by now--except their spending all their time on customer wifi tickets... hahaha

In all fairness. I had to open plenty of tickets for Apex. Mainly for hardware failures plus the initial firmware issues. If I remember correctly I had to wait out a long weekend to hear back from their support.

I’ve received emails back from Vinny over the weekend…

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

In all fairness. I had to open plenty of tickets for Apex. Mainly for hardware failures plus the initial firmware issues. If I remember correctly I had to wait out a long weekend to hear back from their support.

I’ve received emails back from Vinny over the weekend…

Oh, i see. I just read the GHL instructions:

"To connect to wifi: spend days wasting your time. Then open a ticket. Hopefully Vinnie will respond by the weekend. Until then enjoy the shiny alluminum box."

 

[csund]

I do enjoy just how aesthetically pleasing my GHL stack is. I can’t help myself but to race downstairs every morning and check out how sexy it looks.

When I owned a less than competitive controller one glance would cause me to regurgitate in my mouth and have to run for the utility sink. I will say I was a bit slimmer in those days.

 

[JoeinLA]

When I owned a less than competitive controller one glance would cause me to regurgitate in my mouth and have to run for the utility sink. I will say I was a bit slimmer in those days.

Ha! The grey/orange thing is… almost as bad as the ProfIlux UX. Heh.

seriously though, aesthetics did play some part in choosing GHL vs other.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

More GHL software issues. Mag stirrer is "off" but still stirring. If i turn it on, it will stay on a random amount of time then turn "off" on the display, but keep stirring in reality for a very long time.

 

[csund]

More GHL software issues. Mag stirrer is "off" but still stirring. If i turn it on, it will stay on a random amount of time then turn "off" on the display, but keep stirring in reality for a very long time.

Sounds like a connection issue - I would start with your WiFi! For now, try connecting through USB!

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

Sounds like a connection issue - I would start with your WiFi! For now, try connecting through USB!

Its connected. All tiles load. Shows flow rates, etc. It just shows mag stirrer as off, but its on.

Just curious, can a GHL ever malfunction in your view?

 

[csund]

It could be setup improperly to perform an undesirable function yes. It does not have a mind of its own, it only does what the user programs it to do. You said software issue. Spilling water on the doser wiring could have shorted the relay driver and cause it to stay on - that would be a hardware issue.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

It could be setup improperly to perform an undesirable function yes. It does not have a mind of its own, it only does what the user programs it to do. You said software issue. Spilling water on the doser wiring could have shorted the relay driver and cause it to stay on - that would be a hardware issue.

Maybe. But no device or software is perfect. Nor is GHL. It has flaws. I think lots of them. This is one of them. All computers have glitches and bugs and do not always do what you "program it to do."

I put it on manual control. I switch on. It will switch itself off on the display, but the doser stays on for a long while. According to vinnie, the default is for the mag stirrer to turn off in manual mode if wifi connection is lost.

I think the wifi connection even in direct connect is better than through myghl, but not perfect.

I would say the mag stirrer getting wet was it, but this problem is the reason the mag stirrer got wet in the first place---only the malfunction was with the manual control and the automatic top off....

The mag stirrer i don't think there is anything wrong with it...

 

[Gaël]

More GHL software issues. Mag stirrer is "off" but still stirring. If i turn it on, it will stay on a random amount of time then turn "off" on the display, but keep stirring in reality for a very long time.

Sorry, manual override to turn off magnetic stirrers if they are running, actually don't work on Profilux, only to turn on if they are not running is working.

 

[csund]

I would say the mag stirrer getting wet was it, but this problem is the reason the mag stirrer got wet in the first place---only the malfunction was with the manual control and the automatic top off....

If in manual mode, and the connection is interrupted the state reverts back to default or auto settings. This is by design.

You can setup maintenance modes or use a ADIN card to incorporate manual buttons/switches to turn things on or off.

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

. . . don't work on Profilux....

Ain't that the truth...

 

[Mywifeisgunnakillme]

If in manual mode, and the connection is interrupted the state reverts back to default or auto settings. This is by design.

You can setup maintenance modes or use a ADIN card to incorporate manual buttons/switches to turn things on or off.

Not much of a "manual" mode is it. ...

 

[kenchilada]

My opinion is that the software is crappy. You can’t tell me that my opinion is wrong or that I don’t know what I am taking about as it is my opinion. Your opinion differs and that is fine, but it doesn’t mean you are right and I am wrong. I genuinely wish that I loved the software, but I don’t.

Once again, you’re only seeing what you want to see. In that screenshot of the dashboard, now go to the page on the actual Profilux screen (not any of the software) and post a photo of what that shows (which is what I was saying, but you’ve chosen to ignore).




They give you an option to ‘search for networks’. It doesn’t find any even though every other single Wi-Fi device I own can find it with no problem. Again, you’ve focused on that one issue (which has a quirk but does have a workaround) and ignored the other problems I am having; maybe you have workarounds for them too?

I use GHL connect on iPhone and GCC on PC.


I don’t want this to become even more of an argumentative thread; I was simply posting that my experience with the GHL software was not hugely positive. You won’t change my mind and I won’t change yours, so this is a fruitless discussion of which I will gracefully bow out.

This is a good example of what is happening here. We all agree the hardware is reliable and looks nice, so let’s ignore that. The Profilux software, as a product, is very polarizing. This is a GHL product issue that factually exists, regardless of whether you love it or hate it.

When designing a product that users will interact with, there is a modern development methodology known as “user experience” or UX. One of the first things a UX person would do is define personas for the users of your product. This is just a list of all the types of users that use your product, how they will use it, what they want to achieve, what will annoy them, etc.

For the GHL software there are many types of users. Some are aquarium industry users, some are highly technical, some are casual hobbyists who enjoy tech and fiddling with settings, some are hobbyists that just want a reliable device that is easy to use. The point is each persona wants different things and pleasing them all is hard.

The reason there is polarization here is that the software meets the needs of some personas but not others. For @Lasse it is a great product and he has evolved to become the ultimate cheerleader and helps many others constantly. You will never convince him this is bad software because it’s perfect for his persona. For others here (mainly types of “common hobbyists”) it does not check all the boxes. No one here is wrong.

If GHL wants to increase market share, the easiest way is to better accommodate the needs of dissatisfied personas. This is often difficult because it means many people that work very hard on a product must accept criticism that they perhaps do not agree with and make changes they personally do not like. This is when developers sometimes become defensive. Often a product design person will have a different agenda than the developers.

I am not sure if GHL has interest in growing the product in this way, but I hope that they do and I hope they will improve it to satisfy more of us.

 

[Lasse]

The reason there is polarization here is that the software meets the needs of some personas but not others. For @Lasse it is a great product and he has evolved to become the ultimate cheerleader and helps many others constantly. You will never convince him this is bad software because it’s perfect for his persona. For others here (mainly types of “common hobbyists”) it does not check all the boxes. No one here is wrong.

This is an interesting angle and needs some comments mostly from a philosophic point of view

For me - that have both biological and technical educations/experiences of a long life - mostly in the interface between technology and biology in aquatic life support systems - IMO - it is one thing that differ an aquarium controller from all other technical devices we use nowadays. It is the brain in a life supporting system but it is also a dumb technical brain without any own Intelligence. It means - in a certain time point - based of inputs it gets from sensors and functions - it will do exactly the thing you have programmed in for that situation. As it is a controller of a living system - with animal life as a parameter - it is important that it is flexible for many different situations

Because of the fact that every aquarium set up is different and that every aquarium will change, both chemically and biologically during time its is important for me that both software and hardware are as flexible as possible. This demand of flexibility may interfere with the interaction interface between human and machines and demand some learning periods. Some manufactures have solve this problem with easy controls for easy task and a demand of classic programming for more difficult tasks. GHL have solve this with pre-programmed modules there you combine these modules for special tasks. The different levels functions, the extra functions, the illumination, timer and dosing functions and the programming language of profilux is example of this. They can be combined in endless ways and include the powerful inverse function.

To make a function that only activate my top off during night hours is easily done without any knowledge of classic boolean algebra - just combine a socket function with a level function AND a timer function with help of Profilux programming language. Ok - in this case it could be better to have an extra line in the level function that say - only active during xx:xx and yy:yy - but it is an example of the principles.

I have been using Profilux since around 2009 and during this time I have only experienced a limitation that I can´t work around in one case - I can´t use the PL language with the 1-10 V interface which limit my wish of full flexibility with my wavemakers. However this will not alter my view of the software - it does what i should in a controller that is in use for a life supporting system. The connection between the software and hardware function is good too.

It is interesting to know that in each generation of main unit - GHL have put in a lot of offert to do them backwards compatible - most old hardware from at least Profilux 2 can be used by P4 and older main units can mostly use the new equipment - at least after the introduction of P3 and the PAB communication buss back in 2009. The GCC was developed for P3 back in late 2009 and it still going strong as major software. The new web interface and MyGHL has been developed during the last 5-7 years and works for P3 and upwards.

I will still say that GHL software construction fulfill the needs of both advanced and not so advanced users but you need to understand what you are doing because it is the brain of a life supporting system.

What upset - mostly americans what I understand - is the fact that the interface between the human user and the software need a learning curve there you get more understanding what you can or not can do with the controller. You need really understand - not only klick an virtual button and it manage itself - the system in order to use it.

There is for sure things that can be better in the interface between human and software but you can´t construct a main unit for a life supporting system the same way as you construct a interface to a phone or something just technical IMO

What I understand - UX - is about the interface between humans and the software (software is the programming that manage the hardware)

One of the first things a UX person would do is define personas for the users of your product. This is just a list of all the types of users that use your product, how they will use it, what they want to achieve, what will annoy them, etc.

IMO - this is not the most important with controllers for life supporting systems. The first question a developer must answer is to define what a aquatic life supporting system demand of your product. a list of all the types of things your product should solve and what an aquatic life support system demands for function fully out. What will kill your animals and so on.

A aquarium computer is not the holly graal that make you a good aquarist - it is only a tool for you in order to understand what you are doing

Sincerely Lasse

 

[JoeinLA]

kenchilada said:
One of the first things a UX person would do is define personas for the users of your product. This is just a list of all the types of users that use your product, how they will use it, what they want to achieve, what will annoy them, etc.

‘IMO - this is not the most important with controllers for life supporting systems. The first question a developer must answer is to define what a aquatic life supporting system demand of your product. a list of all the types of things your product should solve and what an aquatic life support system demands for function fully out. What will kill your animals and so on.”

I think the above is the crux of this “debate”. Some want the most capable controller. Others want the most capable controller that they are actually able to use.

to me, the issue with the former’s perspective is that it’s, frankly, myopic. The best controller is worthless if users won’t want to use it. Additionally, there’s nothing that prevents the best controller from improving Its UX to attract more users, even marginally. If the goal is a system that saves the most “lives“ of our aquatics pets, then certainly there must be some parity between the one most capable of being used by a technical expert while excluding those who aren’t, and one is less technically perfect but can actually be used by more average users.

those Of us expressing our dissatisfaction with GHL’s UX feel that a substantive improvement could be implemented with marginal cost if GHL actually gave it some mental focus. Perhaps we’re wrong, but our experiences with essentially every other networked device tells us that GHL’s network integration processes seem horrendously behind the times

 

[csund]

those Of us expressing our dissatisfaction with GHL’s UX feel that a substantive improvement could be implemented with marginal cost if GHL actually gave it some mental focus. Perhaps we’re wrong, but our experiences with essentially every other networked device tells us that GHL’s network integration processes seem horrendously behind the times

As you assume the cost to be marginal I will assume it would be substantial.

I would rather see them invest in the PTC heater and fish feeder. You know if they build a fish feeder it will be too notch - not some rebranded Chinese one sold for 5x the cost.

 

[Lasse]

Some want the most capable controller. Others want the most capable controller that they are actually able to use.

Now we are talking about two different products - but the variable is that a controller is not an AI system today but the buyer has a real intelligence (at least mostly of us ). We can learn to understand the controller better - but a controller can´t learn the same thing

Perhaps we’re wrong, but our experiences with essentially every other networked device tells us that GHL’s network integration processes seem horrendously behind the times

We are a lot of people that do not have the same issue with the network integration as some others. For me - it works very well and have done that for the last years. I report this - and get a nomination to be a fanboy

from improving Its UX to attract more users, even marginally.

Today - GHL offer 6 main different interfaces between the software and the user

1. The display on the unit. If all network connections fall for you - you can still do the most things directly with help of the display,
2. GCC - that offer you two different option how to connect your PC (or PC simulator run on MAC) - Through serial communication (USB) or through the TCP/IP protocol over your network.
3. Direct communication between other computers using a web browser and connect through an inbuilt web browser over TCP/IP. It is possible inside your network or open a communication port in your router
4. Communication through the internet an MyGHL through web browsers
5 Direct communication in your network between an app and the inbuilt web browser
6. Communication through internet through MyGHL and an app

98% of the tasks can been done with all types of interface, Some need a special interface
FW update - USB connection and GCC
Create virtual probes - through the display
Change between pond and aquarium for the PT 100 temperature sensor - the display
Update FW and internal web browser for the WiFi unit in P4 and mitras FX7 through either TCP/IP inside your network or a special upgrade tool and USB
Reading graphs - through myGHL - however the last 8000 sample points its stored inside the P4 and can be downloaded from the device and shown in P3 style from GCC
Logbook - through My GHL

One of the points that have been highlighted as a shortcoming is the FW update process. The software and the hardware is constantly improved and sometimes it needs a FW update in order to use all new features (or take away bugs) Today most electronical devices update their FW automatically through internet instead of the old, sometimes complicated manual FW update. GHL have not take that route - and I hope that they never will take that route either. Why? - their equipments are parts of a aquatic life supporting systems and if a update fails it can be lethal for our animals. IMO - before you update FW in this type of systems - you must first be able to take backups of your settings and calibration data, after that have full observation of the update process. After the update - you must check that the most critical tasks still works as intended. The manual update process is one of the most important things why I chose Profilux in the first place. Its tricky - it takes time but you have full control over it.

Sincerely Lasse