Terrys Red Sea Max E170 Build thread

[BeejReef]

:mad: My ATO tried to overfill my tank ! One day in ! (This is why I am writing this at 3:00am. I suspect it was sensor placement but I did discover a design flaw! (They all have them)

I woke up to nature’s call and could hear a strange sound in my tank. It was the ato pump running dry in my reservoir. The light on the sensor was blinking blue. The water was well above the ATO sensor. Fortunately I only had a little over a gallon in the reservoir. This was less than the safety volume of the tank so no wet floor.

My theory :
Micro bubbles tripped the sensor while it was under water. The Controller did not yet setup a safety timer and ran the reservoir out.

The possible design flaw:
The pumps safety is that the pump will not run longer than 3x the time it took for the first run. The issue: if it overfills on the first run there is no safety! That is the design flaw.


Other info:
I could see small bubbles at the sensor where I put it. They didn’t seem to interfere the first day.

My water level was a little high so I shut off the ATO and moved the sensor lower (putting It slightly underwater ) . I then turned the ATO back on and it booted and indicated it was ok with a solid blue light.

I went to bed ....... woke up to nature’s call and you know the rest.

I suspect micro-bubbles may have triggered the ato to fill. Since it was underwater it just ran and ran because the safety never got set since I power cycled and this was the first run.

I will check with the vender in the morning.

Changes to my design
Installing the mechanical float valve on the fill line ASAP.

I may add an external safety as well.
Aqua Auto AutoAqua Smart Level Security unit
https://www.marinedepot.com/search?Query=smart+level+security&oq=Smart+level+security



Before you ask if I regret returning the nano . I did at first but after thinking about it. The nano could have also failed on for a similar reason (meaning sensor error). It’s timer is preset so it would have shutdown after 1.4 min. So in this scenario it would have performed better. However it is still using a relay and can get stuck in the on position ignoring the timer with the same results. So six of one 1/2 dozen of another.



UPDATE: I worked with coralvue tech support and it is not super clear about why it did what it did.

Three theory's are:
1) Debris or microbubbles caused a false trigger
2) The water by the exit of the protein skimmer was too turbulent for this type of sensor. Causing a false trigger
3) flakey\defective sensor that could be affected by just about anything.

All three failed on the first run since power on thus bypassing the safety since it never set the base time. This caused the pump run until I shut it off. (they really should program in a default time of 10 min). Just not a super common situation.

A simple move of the sensor would knock out two of the three. I moved it to the other side of the sump (over the circulation pump).


Original sensor location


New sensor location

​

I run into a similar issue on my tank. In a nutshell, my water level varies by a good 2" between when the return pump is on v. when it is off. I think this is because of how much vertical space there is in my overflow between the main drain and the emergency drain. In any event, we both have big swings in our water levels. The issue I have is that when the return pump is off, my optical eye level sensor is fully submerged. In this fully submerged state, it reads as "too low" and activates the pump. I also have an emergency, mechanical float switch, but if I mount it low enough to prevent this, the alarm goes off anytime I'm feeding the fish. Point being, there's a no-man's land dead spot between the two sensors, so in some instances, I have only one backup.. the mechanical float. At the moment, when I turn the return pump back on, my ATO will kick in briefly, until the return pump drops the water level to a point where the optical eye isn't submerged. I wonder if your issue isn't somehow similar? I plan to resolve it by putting a longer stand-pipe in my overflow so less water drains into the sump when the pump is off.

 

[BeejReef]

Great build thread. NOT boring at all. Hopefully, your discussion of the ins and outs of the various equipment you've used, and the results, will be a great help to someone else getting started. We don't need to impress the peeps on their 4th tank. They know what they're doing... usually

 

[7237689918]

My diatom issue is finally on the downside. As painful as it was, I quit cleaning the tank, sump, etc. for a week so they would stay in and chew up the silicates.

 

[Taxus812]

I run into a similar issue on my tank. In a nutshell, my water level varies by a good 2" between when the return pump is on v. when it is off. I think this is because of how much vertical space there is in my overflow between the main drain and the emergency drain. In any event, we both have big swings in our water levels. The issue I have is that when the return pump is off, my optical eye level sensor is fully submerged. In this fully submerged state, it reads as "too low" and activates the pump. I also have an emergency, mechanical float switch, but if I mount it low enough to prevent this, the alarm goes off anytime I'm feeding the fish. Point being, there's a no-man's land dead spot between the two sensors, so in some instances, I have only one backup.. the mechanical float. At the moment, when I turn the return pump back on, my ATO will kick in briefly, until the return pump drops the water level to a point where the optical eye isn't submerged. I wonder if your issue isn't somehow similar? I plan to resolve it by putting a longer stand-pipe in my overflow so less water drains into the sump when the pump is off.

Mine I am confident was bubbles from the skimmer outlet. I moved the sensor and no issues like that again. I tried to make it fail . I’m having issues now with the 3x first run safety falsely tripping on humid days.

Can I ask what ATO you are using?

 

[Taxus812]

Great build thread. NOT boring at all. Hopefully, your discussion of the ins and outs of the various equipment you've used, and the results, will be a great help to someone else getting started. We don't need to impress the peeps on their 4th tank. They know what they're doing... usually

Thank you very much ! I was wondering if I was being a bit too verbose. Reading other build threads, they seemed far more entertaining.

 

[BeejReef]

Mine I am confident was bubbles from the skimmer outlet. I moved the sensor and no issues like that again. I tried to make it fail . I’m having issues now with the 3x first run safety falsely tripping on humid days.

Can I ask what ATO you are using?

I'm using the standard Tunze Osmillator.... 3155 I think. I really like it. I'm sure you saw it has two sensors, an optical eye and a float switch. Out of the box, they can both be mounted to the same plastic piece/magnet holder with the mechanical switch just slightly above the eye. Bc of the big level change I have though, that wouldn't work and I had to use an (included) optional mount for the emergency float... thus the dead spot in between where the eye can be submerged and the float not yet tripped. Even so, I like having the float a little higher up. If the alarm is going to go off, I want it to really be an "oh shi*" moment.. not the sort of thing you get used to hearing.

Glad yours was just bubbles and is sorted.

I chuckled when I read the description of how you awoke to "answer nature's call" and discovered your ATO running. I wonder if the steady sound of a gentle trickle of water had anything to do with that! Don't make it too quiet

 

[Taxus812]

My diatom issue is finally on the downside. As painful as it was, I quit cleaning the tank, sump, etc. for a week so they would stay in and chew up the silicates.

I was thinking the same. Then I thought I should burn the nutrition out more like a farmer. Let grow then harvest, let it grow again and harvest. They eventually they would rotate their crops because the soil would be depleted of nutrients. To counter they plant once more but turn the crop into the soil to decompose. Im going to do basically the same except letting the diatoms die. I’m cleaning each Sunday morning. Hopefully I can get through the diatoms without causing new issues.

We shall see

 

[Taxus812]

I chuckled when I read the description of how you awoke to "answer nature's call" and discovered your ATO running. I wonder if the steady sound of a gentle trickle of water had anything to do with that! Don't make it too quiet

I bet it certainly had something to do with it ROFL

 

[7237689918]

I was thinking the same. Then I thought I should burn the nutrition out more like a farmer. Let grow then harvest, let it grow again and harvest. They eventually they would rotate their crops because the soil would be depleted of nutrients. To counter they plant once more but turn the crop into the soil to decompose. Im going to do basically the same except letting the diatoms die. I’m cleaning each Sunday morning. Hopefully I can get through the diatoms without causing new issues.

We shall see

Yea, it's hard to not do anything as your tank looks so crappy. I raised my PO4 a bit and let it ride for a week. Not totally gone but decreasing materially daily now.

 

[McFly]

Looks like progress! You may want to consider adding some type of nutrient sink at this point like macro algae, or easy corals. Perhaps a ball of Chaeto you can remove later on.

 

[Taxus812]

Looks like progress! You may want to consider adding some type of nutrient sink at this point like macro algae, or easy corals. Perhaps a ball of Chaeto you can remove later on.

I’m going to get some frags next week at my reef club. My gsp isnt doing that good I hope I don’t kill them . I think the chempure elite sent my phosphate to 0.0. And the gsp closed a few days later. I pulled it this morning. I won’t be adding anything going forward unless I see an issue.

 

[Taxus812]

I setup a quarantine. Very simple 10 gallon tank with a hob filter.

It is setup freshwater right now with a filter that was running on my daughters 45gal tank.

I will be adding mollies to it and to convert them to salt. I have been super interested in doing that since I learned I could. I also have been doing research to make sure it is not harmful. it’s not sooo, I have some creamsicle and pandas to put in.

I plan to go the slow conversion route. They are getting quarantined for two weeks before I start to convert them just to make sure they are not too stressed or ill. I will slowly turn the water brackish until I match my salinity. I’m going to take a week for the conversion. I know many just dump them in the tank or drip climatized over a few hours but I want to tank my time.

 

[Dub_G]

Looking good. I've got the big brother to your tank - the Red Sea Max E-260. Mine also has the under cabinet sump. I bought mine used from a local reefer and combined my old tank with his. I need you start a build thread, but haven't taken the time to do it yet.

Keep up the good work with your tank and your updates.

 

[Taxus812]

Looking good. I've got the big brother to your tank - the Red Sea Max E-260. Mine also has the under cabinet sump. I bought mine used from a local reefer and combined my old tank with his. I need you start a build thread, but haven't taken the time to do it yet.

Keep up the good work with your tank and your updates.

Thank you very much !
I would like to get a Red Sea Max E-260 for my basement office. Possibly next year ??

 

[Taxus812]

We have Molly’s

I forgot to add an air stone so I had to runout after physical therapy To get one.

Real basic setup but it actually looks pretty good . It is sitting in my basement office right now but I am finishing a wall in my unfinished basement with a rack aquarium stuff.

 

[Taxus812]

I finished my RODI mixing room. Good intentions give way to needs. My original idea was to put my RODI filter in my basement bathroom and mix 5 gal of salt at a time. (which works fine).

I never realized the demand for rodi water in my house. My daughter has a 40 and 5 gallon fresh water tanks. My wife has a 7 and 10 gallon tank (one fresh, one salt) and I have a 45 gallon salt with 10 gallon quarantine tank. The first thing to go was the making 5 gal of RODI water at a time. I quickly learned having a barrel of RODI ready was the ticket. I added a 20 gallon brute trash can and a pump to fill 5 gallon buckets as needed.

The next was the 20 gallon barrel was to big to get in the bathroom. So I ran a line out to another adjacent part of the basement. That seemed to solve that problem.

Another lesson learned my rodi was connected to the bathroom faucet with a diverter. Well people who use said bathroom while I’m making RODI water may shut the water off. Not a big deal but I have a pressure pump that ran for 2 hours dry. ( my wife apologized profusely).

I later realized I still need more water at the ready than 20 gallons so I upgraded to a 32 gallon bucket. I also learned thanks to @randyBRS at BRS investigates, that I can mix several weeks of salt up at a time and store it. As long as it is mixed well (24 hrs), it will keep for weeks with no precipitation. I now will be mixing up 20 gallons at a time and storing it. (My water changes are 5 gallons weekly) .

Now I have two barrels, salt, quarantine stuff, buckets, fill pumps and a sink that was pretty much being used for RODI continuously. Not going to fit in my bathroom.

I gave in and built a dedicated RODI/SALT mixing center in part if my basement. RODI will fill the 32gal and is permanently connected to water and drains into a dry well. The pump is left plugged in (there is a pressure switch) for on demand usage. The kitchen sink is right above that area and we have a 20 year old RO system in there. I’m going to pull the RO filter and connect the pressure tank to the new RODI system. I just need to find if I should connect tap into the line before the DI filter or after for drinking water.

Thanks to BRStv I also am very intrigued about auto water changes. I set things up so I can go that route later if I want.

Update: RODI water tastes flat. It won’t hurt you, but there is still a lot of debate on that subject. I decided just to go ahead and splice into the line before the DI Resin and move the pressure switch for the pump to that location as well. (so the pump will turn on and off if either location requires water). The line will route up through the floor and under my sink into the pressure tank for RO drinking water. It will be so much easier to maintain now.

What do you think? I still have work to do. I should be done this weekend.

 

[Taxus812]

Update to replacing my heater I posted about earlier. I want to go on record with this . After many weeks of warm temperatures, I realized that my eheim heater did NOT need replacing. It was the warming temperatures and my light causing the heat to creep up each day. I got paranoid reading posts about heater failures so when the temps started to come up I freaked expecting my tank to get hot enough to cook soup in a few days. It has been rock solid in my daughters freshwater tank since we installed it a month and 1/2 ago. (NOTE: to date my replacement heater has also been working fine. I really like the external controller with temperature display. I just wish it was not 2 deg higher than my other thermometers ). It was a $70 lesson learned.

This is what I was expecting.

Photo by azestforlife.com​

What I needed was this.

photo by darkroom.baltimoresun.com

 

[Taxus812]

I think my diatom bloom may be winding down. The tank water has stayed crystal clear and each day I have had to clean the glass less and less. This is after a full day without cleaning the glass. The diatoms are all over the sand bed and I will vacuum them up this weekend.

I will test silicates in the morning and see if I can also see a decrease. If what I have been told is true and what I think I see is right, I should see some sort of silicate reduction.

 

[Taxus812]

I measured silicates this morning to see if my theory was confirmed. Looking at my results I think I’m at the margin of error for this test (.5 mg/L ). It’s pretty near zero. I can conclude the reduction in diatoms is that they are using up their food (silicates). I will make sure to clean them so they don't become food for a new algae.

The bottom two tests are tank water and the middle right test is RODI.

The RODI is as expected zero. The bottom two are less than 1mg/L but more than zero. They are so close I can count them as such.


I did the low range test. You use more water and reagents the divide the value by 4. The result is less than 1 mg/L

 

[Taxus812]

I made a few maintenance changes based on what I have learned so far.

First thing is a mindset change. What I do now while my tank is young, I may not have do when the tank matures. I'm thinking of this like building scaffold processes around a structure I am assembling. Once the structure is sound I can remove some of the scaffolding. another way of thinking about this is I will have to do things for the tank that it cannot do on its own yet like controlling nitrates and phosphates. The reason for the mindset change is when I am reading posts from refers who may have a 4 year old tank and doesn't need water changes. I cant assume that I no longer need water changes. My tank does not have biology to support that option.

Second mindset change. I will not add anything unless I know why I need to add it and actually need it. I have been watching videos (thanks BRStv) and reading many posts. I think a lot of new reefers like me are doing things because that were told they should or they think they should. Unfortunately they really don't know WHY they should. I do not want to add anything like reactors or special filters or even dosing pumps unless I really need to and understand why I need to.

Maintenance changes​

1. 10% water changes are a must and done weekly on the same day. Consistency and stability will get my tank running faster and stronger. (auto changes possible in the future)​
2. Focus on the basics: consistent levels of Salinity, Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium (still working on what those final levels should be, I keep them consistent on what they are now)​
3. I will not chase PH unless one of my other base elements is off. (It is sooooo tempting) ​
4. I am adopting the BRS Nitrate & Phosphate recommendations for a new reef. I am targeting Nitrates at 1-2 ppm and Phosphates at .03-.07 ppm. Once I get corals established I can adjust. (scaffolding like task)​
5. I will not rinse in my tap water as it has high concentrations of silicates. This should help lessen some silicate contamination. ​
6. I removed the ChemiPure elite since it has GFO to reduce phosphates and it worked. Unfortunately it sent my phosphates to zero. That puts my tank at risk for dinoflagellates algae that loves that environment. I never had a phosphate problem so why use it? Someone at a LFS said this will keep you tank perfect so I used it.I now understand how to use it and when. ​

​