The ethics of this hobby

[Deadlocked]

After having my reef tank for a few months it has occurred to me that this hobby may not be for me. I don't like the thought of animals being taken from their natural habitat just to support human interest. Thinking about all of the fish that have died because of transport or mistreatment really upsets me. Im not sure if anyone else has felt this way, but i would like to hear your thoughts.

 

[Townes_Van_Camp]

I think there are certain animals we al refuse to keep for a myriad of reasons. I won’t keep a puffer of any kind. After years of doing so I realized they are much more intelligent than “just a fish”. I won’t keep fish in too small a tank. This hobby can be participated in, in an ethical manner. You will be limited, but aquacultured animals exist for a reason. Not only are they hardier, you aren’t ripping them from their environment.

Regardless of my or any others opinions, it is your personal choice. But I don’t think anyone here would say there isn’t at least an element of selfishness to this hobby.

Have you considered corals only?

 

[PR_nano]

You can look into captive bred fish. Same for corals if you are interested in the hobby but I get what you say.

 

[blaxsun]

If this hobby didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have any captive breeding programs (fish, corals or otherwise). A significant amount of the conservation as well as aquatic research and development are in fact funded by private and public aquariums and hobbyists.

More fish die in a single excursion with a drift net than probably all the hobbyist fish in transit in any given year, not to mention how many fish and how much of the reef environment are damaged or destroyed every year by poaching, pollution, tourism, climate change, etc.

The irony is that many people feel bad about home aquariums but think nothing of flying halfway across the world to motor out into the ocean, snorkel and touch, damage or take souvenirs from coral reefs.

 

[Fishnut]

That is why so many of us are purchasing tank raised fish. I have third generation tank raised clowns in my tank. As well as tank raised blueline angels, white bar maculosus, yellow tangs, and dottibacks. I feel happy knowing they can live long lives in my care not worrying about getting eaten by predators living in the ocean. Support the tank raised breeders and you will feel less guilt.

 

[Nick Steele]

Take a look at waterbox’s latest build it’s a fully aquacultured 65 gallon all in one tank. Has just about everything someone could want. Tank is filled in nicely too. All fish, inverts and corals are from Oceans Reefs and Aquariums or ORA as most now.

And as many have said if it wasn’t for the hobby I’m sure most ocean environments would be much worse off then they are now.

 

[ScubaSkeets]

I do somewhat agree with you. It must really suck for the fish to be captured, transported, bagged, transported and bagged who knows how many times to only end up being "stuck" in a glass square for people to look at them. That is, IF they somehow knew what was happening to them and they spent all their time in the tank longing return to the ocean and be free.
However, I don't think that's the case (at least I hope that's not the case). While I can't do anything about what happens to them up to the point that I put them in my tank, I would like to think that I provide them with nice clean water, safe from predators, and an unlimited amount of food that they don't have to swim forever to get and risk their lives getting. I like to think that my fish are as happy and content as they can be.
As far as removing them from their natural habitat, is it really any different than any animal we have as pets? Sure, we can argue that these are domesticated dogs and cats, but are we really sure that that is what they want?
Do you eat seafood or meat? Did you ever watch what these fish, crabs, lobsters, chicken, beef, etc. go through for them to get to your plate? Looks like a pretty unpleasant experience for them just so I can enjoy a nice steak, chicken, or seafood dinner. It might just be PETA propaganda, but still we are taking these animals for our own selfishness and enjoyment...so, rhetorically speaking, what's the difference between the keeping some fish in a tank and having a steak dinner? Is it because cows are bred for that? Does that make any difference to the cow?

 

[Dan_P]

After having my reef tank for a few months it has occurred to me that this hobby may not be for me. I don't like the thought of animals being taken from their natural habitat just to support human interest. Thinking about all of the fish that have died because of transport or mistreatment really upsets me. Im not sure if anyone else has felt this way, but i would like to hear your thoughts.

I have similar thoughts about keeping animals under artificial conditions, not just about in aquaria but in zoos as well. On a philosophical tangent, where do you draw the line for respecting life? Humans, mammals, fish, worms, insects, the entire animal kingdom or all living forms of matter? No matter where you draw the line, it is not easy to live within that limit Say you draw the line at humans. You’ll find that most societies create all sorts of exemptions for killing humans.

There is really no good reason for the “torture and killing” of aquatic life, freshwater or saltwater. Humans simply do not “need” aquaria or sport fish, but here’s the thing that makes it possible to do so. Our brains can discount the value of life so that we can keep an aquarium and still sleep at night. The same goes for eating and experimenting on animals. Some brains cannot discount life so readily and that’s where ”viewpoints” arise on this topic.

I have a saltwater aquarium and I do my best to treat the prisoners humanely. I think the “humanely” notion is what lets me sleep at night while keeping animals prisoner.

 

[PhilMStudy]

If your goal is purely to be entertained, yes you have an ethical dilemma.

if your goal is to provide the best environment you can for animals already removed from their natural environment you should have less ethical concerns.

I drive to work daily, those exhaust fumes are deadly for much more of the world and environment.

 

[DeniseAndy]

I have a tank with mostly captive bred animals and one with I would say 90% captive bred (some of the snails and crabs are not). I try to only purchase aquacultured corals. I use the hobby to teach others and show others the beauty of the reefs and how we need to protect them.
Does that huge part of my brain worry and disagree a bit. Sure. We would not be intelligent beings if we did not weigh our actions.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

your going down a rabit hole with that..... its as ethical as keeping a bird or a tiger in a cage, or a snake or lizard or insects. what about bad dog owners, lots of those? what about parents that give bunnies and chickens to their kids for easter? zoo's and public aquariums should be closed too.......... you can't just talk about ethics about fish keeping only and not question other practices/hobbies.

 

[RSnodgrass]

Apologies in advance for the long reply...

I use to be concerned and then I wasn't. I think most have this debate with themselves at some point which is healthy. Then as we become more educated on the matter we learn about all the good it brings. It's also okay if it's not for you.

The amount of good that comes from owning an aquarium is insurmountable. My tank is in my office, on a regular basis people ask "is that freshwater or saltwater" (I have a 300gal full blown reef). Someone who is asking that question will never contribute one dollar or idea to conservation if never exposed to an aquarium and it is invaluable.

It should be noted a person's 1st interaction with the reef and often only, as researches pointed out at MACNA last year, comes nearly exclusively from a home aquarium.

It opens the door to so much more education and understanding than a sensationalized "true life" manipulation by the Discovery Channel or the once great Nat Geo.

Also consider the number of animals dying naturally on the reef every hour and that the aquarium industry almost exclusively seeks out juveniles with a tiny chance of survival and is incentivized to leave adults. A single adult lionfish or yellow tang will produce 8-10,000 eggs a month. Of the few that remain viable a year later only a fraction will live past 3yrs, well before sexual maturity. Conversely, fishing almost exclusively targets sexually mature individuals.

Or the dynamic that many of their predators have been removed causing imbalances.

I'll stop as there really are so many facets to this but the point is education is good, questioning is good, and removing home aquariums does far more harm than good.

 

[LIreefguy]

After having my reef tank for a few months it has occurred to me that this hobby may not be for me. I don't like the thought of animals being taken from their natural habitat just to support human interest. Thinking about all of the fish that have died because of transport or mistreatment really upsets me. Im not sure if anyone else has felt this way, but i would like to hear your thoughts.

This hobby has done more to help the reefs of the world then to hurt it
Learning about animals and fish help us want to conserve them.
also are you a vegetarian because if you aren’t aren’t you don’t that everyday

 

[RSnodgrass]

On a side, I'm all for aquacultured corals but that includes wild aquaculture (mariculture) for me. It's because of what the aquarium trade did in places like Fiji that scientists took credit for how to rebuild a reef very quickly and successfully. Ex, rebuild a 150 yr old brain head in 2yrs and begin being sexually reproductive. That only happens with big money from the aquarium trade, donations can't compare and often wasted.

 

[Timfish]

That's an argument for not keeping any animal. And it's an argument for outlawing hunting too. But what's being overlooked are the benefits to the species as a whole and to the ecosystems they need to live in. What are the unintended consequences of laws passed for conservation that don't take into account what's the best for the ecosystem as a whole?

Here's some examples of unintended consequnces: Kenya in 1977 passed a law making it illegal for ranchers to maintain large mammals for the sake of selling hunting safaris. Rather than conserving large mammals over the following years Kenya lost 60% - 70% of the large mammal population. Without the income from hunting ranchers couldn't afford to maintain the grasslands essential for them and plowed them under for farming. Here in Texas in the '60s the screw worm fly was eradicated to protect not only farmers and ranchers but the mohair industry as well. Screw worm flies lay their eggs on open wounds, umbilicus of lambs and fawns and in the noses of mammals where the larva hatch then eat their way into their host. With one of the main population controls removed the whitetail deer population exploded. Now the state has to do yearly population counts to determine how many deer need to be hunted to maintain healthy populations so deer don't starve.

Many countries exporting marine wildlife have basicly two options for the local residents that rely on subsistance fishing. They can either eat the fish they catch or they can sell them for a much higher price which allows them to import other food staples. One advantage for selling is smaller juviniles and adults are preferable over older larger breeding adults as smaller fish are easier to ship and more can be shipped in less water than larger adults so they are more profitable. Similarly for corals, the reef can be mined enmasse for building material or individual juvenile and small colonies can be sustainably harvested nad better building materials can be imported.

Don't make the mistake of thinking tourism is a good option. Forest ROhwer relates in his book "Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" a popular reef for diving in the Caribbean was crashed in just a few years from overfishing to feed tourists and the increased sewage dumped into the waters around the reef.

For conservation efforts to work they need to be targeted at creating incentives for the local people to want to conserve their local resources and use sustainable methods to develop them. Laws that remove economic incentive to protect the environment will fail when people have to decide between eating and conserving.

 

[stepho725]

I have to say that I appreciate your question because I find it absolutely hilarious the lengths that people will go to to try to justify their actions. First of all, most of us are NOT bringing attention to the conservation efforts in the coral reefs and that is just the reality. We wanted a pretty thing and something to waste our time and money with and it just so happened that living things were involved. It is the epitome of human to take creatures captive for decoration/entertainment.
I have sat staring at my clownfish (who are tank raised) feeling so sad for them. I think ultimately you may take issue with any creature that is not free. And hey, soon, most of these animals will not be in the wild any more at all. They will only be domesticated so, that's something....
There is no right or wrong answer obviously. If you cannot enjoy your tank without feeling guilt then it may be time to let go.

 

[RichReef]

Edited. Deleted.

 

[rhostam]

After having my reef tank for a few months it has occurred to me that this hobby may not be for me. I don't like the thought of animals being taken from their natural habitat just to support human interest. Thinking about all of the fish that have died because of transport or mistreatment really upsets me. Im not sure if anyone else has felt this way, but i would like to hear your thoughts.

I appreciate what you’re feeling. In fact, I agree with the concerns.

These are my thoughts on the matter:

The reality is that we can justify it pretty much anyway we want. Conservation efforts resulting from the hobby is one example. But why are conservation efforts necessary in the first place?

I get along with most everyone. I think the capacity to good and evil exists within each and every one of us given the right impetus.

On the whole everything humans do results in catastrophe for the environment or the creatures with which we share this world.

A bit misanthropic, I know. But think about it - ignoring hobby aspects - think about all of the other ways we are cruel or selfish towards animals?

Having said all of that, my reasons and my belief is that this hobby is a manifestation of a wonder and admiration for an alien world that exists on this same planet. Something that the vast majority of reefers will probably never get to enjoy or observe directly in the wild. I also feel that caring for these creatures is a privilege much like including a dog, a cat, a horse, etc, in our families. When people see my aquarium however young, I see the wonder in their eyes. When I answer their questions, I see an awareness that wasn’t there before. What does it all mean? Who knows?

Would the wild caught species [we] buy be better off in the wild? Naturally. Should my concerns cause me to leave this hobby? Probably.

But honestly, I’d have to reduce my carbon footprint to absolute zero in order for me to be sincere about my concerns about MY impact to this earth. Just surviving in today’s modern world prevents that from happening.

The only solace I take in this hobby is that I can experience a piece of happiness that is my own; correspondingly I take this responsibility very seriously and with utmost reverence.

 

[landlubber]

i don't blame OP for taking things at face value but fisheries and game preserves exist because of industries like this too. it's fisherman and hunters that recognize land use and the interests associated with their hobby/sport and turn money back into it.
I certainly am not going to profess to know all the ins and outs of the industry but a person could probably make a stronger case for why they should never eat fish sticks or cans of tuna than buy a yellow tang.

 

[blasterman]

If this hobby didn’t exist, we wouldn’t have any captive breeding programs (fish, corals or otherwise). A significant amount of the conservation as well as aquatic research and development are in fact funded by private and public aquariums and hobbyists.

More fish die in a single excursion with a drift net than probably all the hobbyist fish in transit in any given year, not to mention how many fish and how much of the reef environment are damaged or destroyed every year by poaching, pollution, tourism, climate change, etc.

The irony is that many people feel bad about home aquariums but think nothing of flying halfway across the world to motor out into the ocean, snorkel and touch, damage or take souvenirs from coral reefs.

I bigger irony is those tourist dollars help support the local economy and help deter reef raping.

I also don't get what the @#$% long line fishing or drift net fishing has to do with boutique reef keeping. Oh yeah...nothing.

Most reefers here would support fishing with sticks of dynamite if they could keep their tanks stocked.