The great bare bottom debate

Murica · Mar 28, 2017

Over time I've been hearing about more people going bare bottom. Right now I have two inches in most areas, some spots have three and one spot has four. Is it worth taking out sand to make bare bottom? Backed up opinions would be greatly appreciated.

pickupman66 · Mar 28, 2017

Murica, I have been keeping reef tanks for over 15 years. in that time MOST of them had some sort of a sandy substrate. tey were usually all in the 1 or 2" deep range with maybe a little more in areas. While this was fine and dandy, I had another local reefer who did bare bottom with Starboard to give that sandy look. It was nice. With SPS, he could crank up the flows and never worry about sand storms. I wanted that. I also wanted the cleanliness aspect of it. So, when I broke down my 180 almost 2 years ago, I decided to go into a barebottom 66. It has been so AWESOME! But it also presents its own challenges

Why I like it
1. All detritus is sort of swept into two corners of the tank so it is very easy to siphon it out when I do a WC.
2. I can have as much flow as I want and the sand will not blow.
3. Clean looks. I dont see any cyano build up on the sandbed as i have in the past. Coralline and zoas are growing on my glass bottom

What I dont like:
1. I cannot get a sand dwelling Wrasse (no I dont want a bowl of sand)
2. Bottom dwelling corals can slide around. I had an orange plate that dies because it kept getting swept back in the tank. It has also been a challenge to keep my Derasa upright.
3. Reduced Biofilter. there is less nitrate export in a Barebottom so you need to find other ways to reduce.

I hope that helps your decision. Check out my build thread for photos.

AlexG · Mar 28, 2017

I will start by asking are you happy with your tank and is everything thriving or do you have issues with the current setup? If the tank is healthy and you are happy with the setup why make changes? In my new system I will have both bare bottom and a tank with sand. I prefer sand in my reef tanks normally 1-2.5 inches. If there is a good sand clean up crew I never really worried about issues from the sand bed. I can completely understand the bare bottom tanks though where flow is maxed out and sand simply just wont stay in place or causes sand storms. There are also some benefits for detritus removal being easier with bare bottom. I think it comes down to what works best for your setup and desired tank conditions.

zchauvin · Mar 28, 2017

This is a very simple thing to answer.

We are in a hobby where we take care of water. When you clean your sand do you see all the crap that comes out of it? Now what if it wasn't there?

You are welcome.

rock_lobster · Mar 28, 2017

pickupman66 said:
Murica, I have been keeping reef tanks for over 15 years. in that time MOST of them had some sort of a sandy substrate. tey were usually all in the 1 or 2" deep range with maybe a little more in areas. While this was fine and dandy, I had another local reefer who did bare bottom with Starboard to give that sandy look. It was nice. With SPS, he could crank up the flows and never worry about sand storms. I wanted that. I also wanted the cleanliness aspect of it. So, when I broke down my 180 almost 2 years ago, I decided to go into a barebottom 66. It has been so AWESOME! But it also presents its own challenges

Why I like it
1. All detritus is sort of swept into two corners of the tank so it is very easy to siphon it out when I do a WC.
2. I can have as much flow as I want and the sand will not blow.
3. Clean looks. I dont see any cyano build up on the sandbed as i have in the past. Coralline and zoas are growing on my glass bottom

What I dont like:
1. I cannot get a sand dwelling Wrasse (no I dont want a bowl of sand)
2. Bottom dwelling corals can slide around. I had an orange plate that dies because it kept getting swept back in the tank. It has also been a challenge to keep my Derasa upright.
3. Reduced Biofilter. there is less nitrate export in a Barebottom so you need to find other ways to reduce.

I hope that helps your decision. Check out my build thread for photos.

I've kept many many (burying) wrasse without sand.. I honestly havent read up on this as far as being a necessity, but I've kept leopard wrasse for years without sand very healthy. I think as long as the tank is peaceful they will be fine.

rock_lobster · Mar 28, 2017

oh and +1 for bare bottom. Something most people probably dont do but the barebottom with coral growing can be extremely easy to propagated coral off of. Can just reach in with a razor and cut up mushrooms or zoas whatever is growing on there and scrape off the bottom with doing no damage to the base.

Rick.45cal · Mar 28, 2017

I personally don't think detritus is all that bad, maybe if you let it build up for years and years.

I've done many tanks many ways, and you can do it either way. My current tank has 1" of sand, and ridiculous amount of flow in it, the sand migrates and requires daily spreading in some areas. (I don't mind). Plus it keeps areas stirred up, the other areas I use as a nutrient sink and stir the sand occasionally to both release nutrients into the water column but also to feed the corals.

Sandbeds require a level of care, sometimes in my case daily adjusting and weekly/biweekly stirring. If you're not into that then it's likely just going to be a mess for you.

Nothing wrong with bare bottom tanks, but the tank with a nice sandbed always draws my attention over the others. WWC's smaller tank with sand in the bottom grabs my attention even over their 500 gallon main display in the lobby everytime I walk in, and it's the sand that does it.

One of the great things about this hobby is there are lots of ways to accomplish the same thing, almost as many ways as there are reef keepers.

Tuffyyyyy · Mar 28, 2017

Very interesting thread. I wanted to ask if anyone had thought about adding Asterinas as added CUC with a bare bottom? I saw someone on Youtube that had a bare bottom tank with an (intentional) Asterina infestation. He said he would let them clean all over, scrape them off of the glass and then suck a big percentage of them out during water changes. Seemed like a really interesting concept.

rock_lobster · Mar 28, 2017

Tuffyyyyy said:
Very interesting thread. I wanted to ask if anyone had thought about adding Asterinas as added CUC with a bare bottom? I saw someone on Youtube that had a bare bottom tank with an (intentional) Asterina infestation. He said he would let them clean all over, scrape them off of the glass and then suck a big percentage of them out during water changes. Seemed like a really interesting concept.

they are so tiny snails are probably better. even colonista snails are great.

Macdaddynick1 · Mar 28, 2017

pickupman66 said:
Murica, I have been keeping reef tanks for over 15 years. in that time MOST of them had some sort of a sandy substrate. tey were usually all in the 1 or 2" deep range with maybe a little more in areas. While this was fine and dandy, I had another local reefer who did bare bottom with Starboard to give that sandy look. It was nice. With SPS, he could crank up the flows and never worry about sand storms. I wanted that. I also wanted the cleanliness aspect of it. So, when I broke down my 180 almost 2 years ago, I decided to go into a barebottom 66. It has been so AWESOME! But it also presents its own challenges

Why I like it
1. All detritus is sort of swept into two corners of the tank so it is very easy to siphon it out when I do a WC.
2. I can have as much flow as I want and the sand will not blow.
3. Clean looks. I dont see any cyano build up on the sandbed as i have in the past. Coralline and zoas are growing on my glass bottom

What I dont like:
1. I cannot get a sand dwelling Wrasse (no I dont want a bowl of sand)
2. Bottom dwelling corals can slide around. I had an orange plate that dies because it kept getting swept back in the tank. It has also been a challenge to keep my Derasa upright.
3. Reduced Biofilter. there is less nitrate export in a Barebottom so you need to find other ways to reduce.

I hope that helps your decision. Check out my build thread for photos.

This is actually a perfect breakdown. I had to give up my Melanarus, (but I've seen vivid has them in their bare bottom , fat healthy and not stressed at all like some people claim, my buddy has one that's a boss in his tank) I had to build a cradle for my drasa because it couldn't stay up straight. Except I cannot keep my nitrates above 0 po4 is .04 usually.

And to add, if you have a lot of corals you won't be able to tell the difference between either one. Also make sure you set up your rockwork in a way that you can access the back of the tank to clean or use the powerheads in the back to blow the detritus to the front.

DeniseAndy · Mar 28, 2017

I really like my sand tanks. I have a barebottom lps tank and honestly, I do not like the look, but it is a bit easier to deal with since it is high nutrient. My larger corals sit in homemade cradles made of marco 400 and sand.

If you like the look of sand, just make sure to have cleanup crew and regular maintenance. If not, the bare bottom can be the way to go. Super helpful wasn't I?

revhtree · Mar 28, 2017

I feel like some people struggle with keeping sand looking good so they think a barebottom will make it easier on a maintenance level. I admittedly felt that way before. I love sand and the look of sand. The thing is that barebottom can be just as frustrating on a maintenance level if you don't stay on top of it. You can still get algae on your BB, etc..

revhtree · Mar 28, 2017

GOSKN5 said:
I painted the underside if my tank with a white textured paint.. gives a great illusion of sand with the ease of BB... I plan to do the same with my next tank and use a little rubble zone to hide the center brace...

Quoting this from another thread because it's nice!

zchauvin · Mar 28, 2017

revhtree said:
I feel like some people struggle with keeping sand looking good so they think a barebottom will make it easier on a maintenance level. I admittedly felt that way before. I love sand and the look of sand. The thing is that barebottom can be just as frustrating on a maintenance level if you don't stay on top of it. You can still get algae on your BB, etc..

It's not a thought, it's a fact that having no substrate is easier on a maintenance level. Detritus doesn't build up on a glass surface like it does in sand, rock, whatever. Sure sand looks nice but it is harder to keep clean. Algae is from an excess of nutrients, that comes from over feeding or poor husbandry. Regardless of sand or not, you'll have algae if you don't take care of your system.

Go raise domestic or wild discus, or altum angels, ect and use substrate. You will quickly see how much easier it is. Again, goes back to husbandry.

revhtree · Mar 28, 2017

zchauvin said:
It's not a thought, it's a fact that having no substrate is easier on a maintenance level. Detritus doesn't build up on a glass surface like it does in sand, rock, whatever. Sure sand looks nice but it is harder to keep clean. Algae is from an excess of nutrients, that comes from over feeding or poor husbandry. Regardless of sand or not, you'll have algae if you don't take care of your system.

Yes and I agree. I meant it to come across that some people go BB because they think that it's a no maintenance solution for a substrate or in this case a lack of substrate. Like you said, you still have to take care to keep algae out of your tank. But it's not a set it and forget it option either.

revhtree · Mar 28, 2017

But sand 100% looks better IMO.

zchauvin · Mar 28, 2017

Yeah for sure. Sand is nice or like above the white bottom. And yeah some people use it as an easy way out but at the end of the day you still have to take care of it lol.

Rick.45cal · Mar 28, 2017

I think ultimately it comes down to what type of aquarist you are and what you enjoy doing in the hobby. Some of us might find some task relaxing (spreading/stirring sand) while others would much rather be doing something else.

VbReefer · Mar 28, 2017

This shouldn't "stir-up" any sandy opinions...

Or you can be like me and put a solid 6" DSB in a 210 and never EVER touch it. After the first week I was able to turn up my flow(mixed reef not full sps) I only have 2 spots (one in each rear corner) where the flow from my return makes a little crater. I love the sand sifters(Don't tell Ron) those and a healthy CUC keep it in pristine condition.
I've done medium and true DSB in most my tanks and love the look and no vacuuming. Moved several times and thoroughly rinsed and re-used DSBs with no issues and paired with a tank full of quality live rock and a decent skimmer. I read so much about people with high nitrates and phosphates but mine have always been near zero and I believe it's the DSB and old method of 2-3lbs of live rock per gallon.
Happy reefing to all.