The Kessil versus Radion debate - why not use both?

[Kfactor]

I would love to try kessel but there’s somthing about buy extra stuff to use a app or the controller for them strays me away From a already expensive light

 

[Jon's Reef]

I would love to try kessel but there’s somthing about buy extra stuff to use a app or the controller for them strays me away From a already expensive light

A160 FTW... just get the 0-10V cable and control through APEX

 

[Karliefish]

A160 FTW... just get the 0-10V cable and control through APEX

Thought A360Xs don’t work with APEX?

 

[Karliefish]

I would love to try kessel but there’s somthing about buy extra stuff to use a app or the controller for them strays me away From a already expensive light

I know what you mean - but don’t know anyway around it if I want to commit to the Kessil A360X’s.

 

[kenchilada]

I’m going with 8x80W ATI Sunpower and three A360X around the edges for shimmer. Tank is 72x24x29. I’ll probably add more Kessils whenever I see a good deal. I paid $1350 for all of the above.

I’m basing the lighting off another tank that has this setup that I really loved.

 

[Karliefish]

I’m going with 8x80W ATI Sunpower and three A360X around the edges for shimmer. Tank is 72x24x29. I’ll probably add more Kessils whenever I see a good deal. I paid $1350 for all of the above.

I’m basing the lighting off another tank that has this setup that I really loved.

Excellent to talk with you as we both appear to being doing something similiar - except I’m sadly paying more. Nice deal you got - well done, congrats! Are you doing 3 A360X’s on both sides of your ATI SunPower?

 

[blitzkragz]

removed

 

[Jon's Reef]

Thought A360Xs don’t work with APEX?

Correct, the x's use the kessil only connections. If you go with the previous models (A160 in my case... you could use the A360WE) it has a 0-10V control for color and intensity which connects right to the APEX 0-10V (Connect 1 to apex, then daisy chain them). You can find A360WE quite frequently in the sale forum for ~$200 each or you can buy them new for ~$350.

 

[blitzkragz]

Here is what I would go with:

Go with Radion Blues for a blanket light, then turn the A360x towards the white side. You get nice white shimmer lines on a blue background. The other nice thing is you can dial in the PAR at different areas of the tank.

Here is my smaller scale setup with 2 XR15 blue and 1 A160 (polyplab filter)

Holy crow this is the exact same thing I am in the process of doing, except twice as big. I have had 6 a360x's on a 12' tank and have loved them and their shimmer, but they just are not enough for anything but LPS. I have ordered 10 xr15 pro's and will put them in between the kessils exactly like you have in your illustration. I already started testing with an xr30 blue you can see in the picture below but two xr15's > one xr30 as far as spacing them out.

 

[Jon's Reef]

I already started testing with an xr30 blue you can see in the picture below but two xr15's > one xr30 as far as spacing them out.

XR15's are definitely the way to go for versatility. I had Pro originally, but I kept gravitating towards AB+ spectrum. That left most of the wattage not used (100% intensity AB+ on a pro is ~70 watts vs blue >100 watts). Found the best balance as XR15 blue full spectrum with kessil set to 100% white side.

 

[kenchilada]

Excellent to talk with you as we both appear to being doing something similiar - except I’m sadly paying more. Nice deal you got - well done, congrats! Are you doing 3 A360X’s on both sides of your ATI SunPower?

I’m starting out with them only in front, over the next year as things mature I will likely add more to the back as needed. I’m building a light rack in my canopy to hold the Sunpower that will have a bar to mount Kessil goosenecks from as well. The rack can be raised/lowered. I’m building custom ventilation to handle the heat too.

Keep in touch... not many of us going this route since T5 for primary lighting is not in style these days!

 

[CCauthers]

As someone who has used both, the radions are better hands down, I'd rather have less shimmer over beautiful corals and sps, rather than a great simmer over meh looking corals

 

[User1]

As someone who has used both, the radions are better hands down, I'd rather have less shimmer over beautiful corals and sps, rather than a great simmer over meh looking corals

This blurs the line a bit as both will successfully yield amazing looking corals. You can pretty much see this by many build threads on this forum or others.

 

[45ZoaGarden]

This blurs the line a bit as both will successfully yield amazing looking corals. You can pretty much see this by many build threads on this forum or others.

+1 you can get great colors under kessils too. My lfs runs the ap500 over one of their smaller mixed reef show tanks and it’s a jaw dropper. The colors are just as good as their 800g mixed reef lit by radion x30 g4 pros.

 

[Karliefish]

A lot of the misinformation that stems from these sort of debates is that it is always subjective at the end of the day. What we know is how the lights are manufactured, some par numbers, graphs, and anecdotal notes from hobbyists. To your question can you mix and match? Of course you can. However, I would ask why? To me it would seem like a lot more headache due to the difference of integration of ecosystems. What I mean is that the current situation within our market is not set with standards for inter ecosystem connectivity. They are all running their own controllers, connectivity cables, dongles, and apps. So no, I wouldn't recommend it but at the end of the day yes, you can. But should you? That is another story.

I replied to I think another thread of yours. I would consider looking at ATI's straton and Philips Coral Care Gen 2 and ignore the shimmer. I own Kessil's and love them. They are amazing products and a great company. They have a lot of history in lighting and there are many a successful tank running them past to present.

ATI knows T5's. They have a good panel design. Philips has a great track record over seas with the Gen 1 and improved with the design on Gen 2. Personally if I was to replace lights I would ask myself about the spectrum, maintenance, life expectancy, mounting, and lastly connectivity and make a decision after.
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I say do it! There are no rules when it comes to mixing lights, technologies, etc.... To me, it makes more sense to mix and match all of the unique characteristics each type of light offers. I use Orphek bars with my 360x’s and love the combo. The Orphek’s give me the extra pop and the Kessil’s give me spectrum, shimmer and coverage. The key to taming the shimmer is running them with a little more white and use the others for the deeper blue.
As far as the debate, it’s really ridiculous. Pretty much any modern led will grow coral, it’s just a matter of how many and how they are utilized. That being said, if I were to buy anything other than Kessil, it would be the new ATI Straton. I think a mix of Stratons and 360x’s would be stunning.
I think mixing different types of LEDs is the way to go (especially if the goal is all led), why not mix all the great qualities of each type of led if you can?

Interesting that you and a couple of others here have suggested that I ditch the T5's and consider the ATI Straton instead. Going to call the company I bought the ATI fixtures from and see if I can return and exchange since the ATI fixtures are still in their original boxes - never been used. Wish me luck

 

[Karliefish]

I’m starting out with them only in front, over the next year as things mature I will likely add more to the back as needed. I’m building a light rack in my canopy to hold the Sunpower that will have a bar to mount Kessil goosenecks from as well. The rack can be raised/lowered. I’m building custom ventilation to handle the heat too.

Keep in touch... not many of us going this route since T5 for primary lighting is not in style these days!

I'm probably going to go ahead and put the Kessil's in the front and the back. Are you doing a new tank or an upgrade to your existing tank? I would be keen to see how your light rack turns out. For the longest time I wanted to build a light rack that I could move up/down, but my ceiling space doesn't accommodate this solution very well. So instead, I'm installing heavy duty drawer sliders that will allow me to pull out each 48" ATI fixtures which will make changing bulbs super easy. Trying hard to make everything easy on me when it comes to tank maintenance.

 

[User1]

I think you are in an interesting place because you have the T5 units and want to mix in LED's. And the challenge here is that you are looking to invest into a ecosystem that will meet your needs both visually and reef tank health. And to be fair a lot of the lights on the market around LED's be it Kessil, Radions, or others can do that. It may come down to dollars and sense once you get personal preference of spectrum checked off.

@RocketEngineer has a good thread, below, on the ATI straton. Not too large but well worth anyone's time should they be considering them.

ATI Straton LED Light - Comments, Review, PAR, Coverage, Discuss...

Hi All, I purchased two pre-embargo ATI Straton units for testing and feedback. The two units were replacing an 8-Bulb 48" ATI Powermodule over half of my new ~340g SPS reef. I wanted to document my findings and comparison on PAR, heat, sound (none!), look, build quality, coverage, and so on...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Karliefish]

I think you are in an interesting place because you have the T5 units and want to mix in LED's. And the challenge here is that you are looking to invest into a ecosystem that will meet your needs both visually and reef tank health. And to be fair a lot of the lights on the market around LED's be it Kessil, Radions, or others can do that. It may come down to dollars and sense once you get personal preference of spectrum checked off.

@RocketEngineer has a good thread, below, on the ATI straton. Not too large but well worth anyone's time should they be considering them.

ATI Straton LED Light - Comments, Review, PAR, Coverage, Discuss...

Hi All, I purchased two pre-embargo ATI Straton units for testing and feedback. The two units were replacing an 8-Bulb 48" ATI Powermodule over half of my new ~340g SPS reef. I wanted to document my findings and comparison on PAR, heat, sound (none!), look, build quality, coverage, and so on...

www.reef2reef.com

So glad I started this whole post as I’ve gotten a wealth of information and your suggestion on the ATI Straton thread was incredibly helpful. Actually, that thread is single best place I’ve found for quality technical details on the ATI light. I’m leaning heavy in that direction and I’m in the process of trying to return my recently purchased ATI SunPower Fixtures. BTW...you summed-up my challenge perfectly, i.e., I want to invest in the future, and have both a visually appealing tank and most importantly a healthy one. Thanks again!

 

[1stNoel]

So glad I started this whole post as I’ve gotten a wealth of information and your suggestion on the ATI Straton thread was incredibly helpful. Actually, that thread is single best place I’ve found for quality technical details on the ATI light. I’m leaning heavy in that direction and I’m in the process of trying to return my recently purchased ATI SunPower Fixtures. BTW...you summed-up my challenge perfectly, i.e., I want to invest in the future, and have both a visually appealing tank and most importantly a healthy one. Thanks again!

I have a set-up with Radion XR30 Gen 4's, Kessil AP700s, and T5s (all mounted on the aquatic life hybrid fixture). Gives the color pop plus the shimmer. But I also like the added look of the T5s when they come on.

At some point, I will do a build thread...but I'm not ready yet. Waiting for some colonies to grow...

 

[Hydrored]

I’ve owned G4’s, G5’s (30/15’s), ReeFi’s, Reefbrite’s, Orphek bars, hands down I wouldn’t trade the stratons for anything.

I have 5 G5 XR30 blues sitting around if you’re around Texas