The Mindstream is DEAD!! I'm getting mine soon!

[road_runner]

Looking at all of those solutions for auto testing I would go with the mindstream everytime. If anything you just sold me more on the mindstream after looking at the products.... Just a thought.

I am warming much more toward the solution after I did some math thanks to the op earlier. I agree its a great solution. We just need to mske sure we see real user results. If it's as advertised am sold. I definitely spend more than 50$ a month on kits. Heck I spend 50$ more on almost monthly icp tests cause I hate testing K+. So this is no brainer.
But since I have ghl, going kh director is better choice still..
Am curious thu what did I say in that post that sold you more? You mean compared to kh director?
Why?
Kh director much of what mindstream does beside ph and salinity...on the flip side it dose as well at least one element, and no monthly fees...

 

[Rich Klein]

Boy did Neptune shoot themselves in the foot taking so long to get their product out, and still have a lack of inventory. I would have pulled the trigger on Trident, but now I have to wait and see it MindStream performs as touted. It would also give me another level of redundancy for Temp monitoring.

 

[chicago]

i am in the same mind set.. would have ordered trident... weeks ago if in stock.. but now going to wait to see about these other options.. Abet, Reefbot, Ghl. and who know what else is coming soon.

 

[Jeff_H]

Boy did Neptune shoot themselves in the foot taking so long to get their product out, and still have a lack of inventory. I would have pulled the trigger on Trident, but now I have to wait and see it MindStream performs as touted. It would also give me another level of redundancy for Temp monitoring.

I agree... I tried very hard to order the Trident several times, but could never get the timing right with the email notifications from BRS. I'm now on three waiting list, but nothing yet. I decided to pull the trigger on the MindStream since they will have limited supply to start with. I know it appears risky at this point, but I hope we will start to get information soon from "real" people testing them. I think MindStream decided to push their launch date up due to the success of the Trident, and other competitive products. This might explain the lack of marketing, videos, beta tester reviews, and the 6-8 week shipping delay. If this "is" the case, I hope they feel it was ready from primetime, and not the "let's get it out the door and fix the bugs later" mentality I see in my industry. Time will tell!

 

[dakoop]

I really want this to be amazing but years of delays and missed launches I just can't put any faith that it works.

 

[Rich Klein]

I agree... I tried very hard to order the Trident several times, but could never get the timing right with the email notifications from BRS. I'm now on three waiting list, but nothing yet. I decided to pull the trigger on the MindStream since they will have limited supply to start with. I know it appears risky at this point, but I hope we will start to get information soon from "real" people testing them. I think MindStream decided to push their launch date up due to the success of the Trident, and other competitive products. This might explain the lack of marketing, videos, beta tester reviews, and the 6-8 week shipping delay. If this "is" the case, I hope they feel it was ready from primetime, and not the "let's get it out the door and fix the bugs later" mentality I see in my industry. Time will tell!

Couldn't agree more. Looks like I'll be dong manual testing for a few more months until the reviews come in.

 

[reefwiser]

I really want this to be amazing but years of delays and missed launches I just can't put any faith that it works.

So people want things fast like the trident but are upset it took them so long to spend the time to get the testing right. [emoji2957]

 

[Tristren]

I don't know how many reefers are out their on the whole, and what percentage of them would or will ever purchase such a unit.
7000 plus units would have to be sold to break even. Sounds like a small number, but in this hobby and for this product that's a very large number.

Unless we assume that the subscription fee is covering 100% of their ongoing operating and manufacturing costs, they'll have to sell quite a bit more that 7,000 units to recoup the investment.

I hope it does succeed though, it's a fascinating idea.

Cheers, Tony

 

[radiata]

A conundrum for auto-testing developers?

I think we're all overlooking something...

I, like most reefers, would really love to have inexpensive equipment and yet accurate methodologies for testing as many reef tank parameters as possible...

That said, what is preventing me from using any such equipment to test more than one system? I actually have four separate culture systems (1 main and 3 quarantine) that I'd like to be able to accurately test. How will any cloud based system (or even NOT cloud based system) know that I've changed the source of the water I'm testing?

If I paid $1000 outright and added in a monthly subscription fee for the equipment, why couldn't I use it to test all four of my above culture systems? (Wouldn't I be actually paying 1/4th of the cost for each?)

Couldn't I split my cost with a buddy in the next town and test his water whenever he needed it and only really pay 1/2 of the cost ownership?

If I could convince nine members of my local reef club to purchase the equipment and pay the subscription cost communally, wouldn't my cost be a mere 10% of the going rate? Would this really be any different than said club communally buying and sharing a PAR meter?

Or, couldn't I just offer my local fellow reefers a cheap rate for accurately testing their (x numbers of) parameters, and use the income to reduce my cost of ownership? And, what if I was the owner of my proverbial "local fish store"?

Do any of the above things that make go "Hmmm"???

 

[Torx]

Unless we assume that the subscription fee is covering 100% of their ongoing operating and manufacturing costs, they'll have to sell quite a bit more that 7,000 units to recoup the investment.

I hope it does succeed though, it's a fascinating idea.

Cheers, Tony

That is only to cover the angel funds. That doesnt include the cost of building those 7000 units or their wages for the last 7 years etc etc. That is why I am worried about this becoming a $1000 paperweight a month afterwards.

 

[Murica]

Wow, this things impressive. Do we think it'll be able to be integrated with apex? Looks to be much better than the trident.

 

[lexinverts]

A conundrum for auto-testing developers?

I think we're all overlooking something...

I, like most reefers, would really love to have inexpensive equipment and yet accurate methodologies for testing as many reef tank parameters as possible...

That said, what is preventing me from using any such equipment to test more than one system? I actually have four separate culture systems (1 main and 3 quarantine) that I'd like to be able to accurately test. How will any cloud based system (or even NOT cloud based system) know that I've changed the source of the water I'm testing?

If I paid $1000 outright and added in a monthly subscription fee for the equipment, why couldn't I use it to test all four of my above culture systems? (Wouldn't I be actually paying 1/4th of the cost for each?)

On their Facebook page, there was a similar question about using it in multiple systems. Mindstream said that the web interface will allow you to keep track of multiple tanks in the cloud and you would just need to change the current tank setting when you moved the device between tanks.

 

[road_runner]

Wow, this things impressive. Do we think it'll be able to be integrated with apex? Looks to be much better than the trident.

The way they have their cloud I would expect apex and others would want to integrate with them.
Common controllers are mainly measurments and outlet control.
If you examine what you use the cloud tool carefully you see most of the value you get is the measurments reading..
Mindstream doing all the measurments with its could computational complexity and logging. Not trivial thing. It would be easy for them in the near future to add control support to their platform not as for it..

If these guys deliever what they promising I see them dominating the market once they bring cost down more and increase their customer base..
Powerful device...

 

[lakai]

According to post #109 the idea that the disk needs to be replaced due to algae growth is not true. I can't vouch for the extensive marketing research since I wasn't asked, but I guess they need to ensure it's accurate otherwise people would complain about it being wrong and damage their reputation. I'm personally OK with the subscription service, I just don't like the idea of being locked out or the unit stops at 30 days. I've asked Tech Support some detailed question about how this will work and will update everyone here if/when they reply.

We saw that there were some questions about the discs and the subscription model: the monthly subscription pays for real-time access to your monitor data, helpful graphs and tools, proactive alerts when your values are out of range, a monthly replacement sensor disc, access to knowledgeable customer support, and for the cloud computing service that takes raw readings from the monitor and turns them into a continuous feed of information for each measure. Using our web app, you can see your readings at any time from a computer or mobile device. Discs need to be replaced each month not because of algae growth, but to ensure that the highest quality readings are acquired by the monitor with no user calibration required. We have adopted the subscription model because our extensive market research has indicated the majority of our prospective customers prefer the convenience of a monthly or annual subscription along with automatic disc shipments.

It is my understanding that the mindstream is very similar to the seneye monitor. The seneye uses a slide that has two squares of what seems to be similar to something like a paper based test strip or similar to a seachem ammonia and ph alert badges. The two squares account for testing of and allows for 1500 readings of both PH and NH3. It takes a reading every 30 minutes but allows you to manually take readings as often as you would like. While I have not had an issue with the NH3 values degrade due to constant manual readings, I did however see the pH readings be severely inaccurate ( showed 7.2 pH when actual was 7.8 pH) towards the end of the month after going over the 1500 readings. This is one reason for monthly replacements of slides and I assume the same for discs. I am not sure how long each would last and read accurately after a month because seneye disables readings of Nh3 and pH exactly 30 days the slide is registered even if you take the unit offline for weeks.

I much prefer this type of testing because you get a reading instantly. Methods using reagents and titration take longer, are much bulkier, require maint. and require you to pull water from your system and draining of it. The costs of a mindstream seems to be a better value if you compare it to a trident + apex for monitoring/testing your parameters alone. Trident + apex you get 7 parameters at longer intervals and mindstream you get readings of 10 parameters every 15 mins which makes it 16 tests for every 1 trident test. You could up the tests on the trident but how long before you are out of reagent ?

The $995 hardware price of the mindstream however will likely prevent this product from seeing widespread use. At a $500 or lower price point I can see this product in every reef tank.

 

[lakai]

Wow, this things impressive. Do we think it'll be able to be integrated with apex? Looks to be much better than the trident.

Why does it need to integrate with a apex. I can't imagine bringing a device to market and feel compelled to design it to specification dictated by another company. While some have made their products compatible there is likely a good reason why so many are not.

 

[jim_fitz]

Can’t wait for these to reach the UK

 

[Murica]

Why does it need to integrate with a apex. I can't imagine bringing a device to market and feel compelled to design it to specification dictated by another company. While some have made their products compatible there is likely a good reason why so many are not.

I was just curious since I'm probably buying an apex controller.

 

[rkpetersen]

Wow, this things impressive. Do we think it'll be able to be integrated with apex? Looks to be much better than the trident.

While this would be great, since it's a competing product, I don't see it happening.
Both companies would have to be in close communication and commit to extensive testing and software revisions.
Neptune has done this with products that don't compete directly with their products, such as lights and powerheads.
It would certainly be a boost to Mindstream sales but Neptune would gain very little from the deal.
Also the recent trend has definitely been for companies to close off their ecosystems and I suspect this trend will continue.
I don't expect it to integrate with GHL systems either.

 

[GoVols]

While this would be great, since it's a competing product, I don't see it happening.
Both companies would have to be in close communication and commit to extensive testing and software revisions.
Neptune has done this with products that don't compete directly with their products, such as lights and powerheads.
It would certainly be a boost to Mindstream sales but Neptune would gain very little from the deal.
Also the recent trend has definitely been for companies to close off their ecosystems and I suspect this trend will continue.
I don't expect it to integrate with GHL systems either.

Totally agree, and Focustronic would be off the table with Mindstream too.

 

[GoVols]

To me the cost factors don't match... ;Wacky

Mindstream is a tester / monitor

KH Director / Alkatronic / Trident... are all tester / monitor / controllers

Just say'n...