The Mystery of Ick

[40Gallon]

It still amazes me with all the advances in the hobby that a reef safe cure for Ick truly hasn't been invented and if you ask ten different people fallow times you will get 8 different answers.

 

[Triggreef]

Is there a question? I'm amazed that with as much ich as there is there are still people that don't qt and even recommend not too.

I've heard some who dose peroxide for algae control claim that ich has disappeared. Someone should study that. Of course probably no one will because it won't make them any money. I quarantine, there for I have no interest in it.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

Did you know there's even a vaccine out there? Honestly, there's not much of a mystery with it anymore. This is a huge aquaculture problem, which is a billion dollar industry. You can imagine how they don't want to wipe out their entire stock. They know how to beat it, they just can't figure out how to implement the treatments. How do you medicate an open pen in the ocean? How to you vaccinate every single fish you have? What meds should be on the fish that would be OK for us to eat later. There's lots of rules on medications allowed to be used on food fish. They're really looking into what they can add to food, yet the delivery system of that even has it's complications.

 

[Humblefish]

There's not enough money to be made developing a vaccine for ich. Saltwater aquarium fish are just a drop in the bucket. If it ever happens, it will be to benefit the aquafarming industry. We will just be unwitting beneficiaries.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

But there is a vaccine...... they've done trials with it. It wasn't developed for our industry, but for aquaculture, but it's out there.

 

[Humblefish]

But there is a vaccine...... they've done trials with it. It wasn't developed for our industry, but for aquaculture, but it's out there.

I know they've experimented with potential vaccines, but it was my understanding none has been proven effective. Do you have a source?

 

[Reefing Madness]

There's not enough money to be made developing a vaccine for ich. Saltwater aquarium fish are just a drop in the bucket. If it ever happens, it will be to benefit the aquafarming industry. We will just be unwitting beneficiaries.

Thats already been accomplished for fisheries, they just keep their SG at 1.009, and no one gets ICH, and the Parasite pops in the low pressure. Thats all there is to it, if they were to set up their systems for the fish like that, then we "would not get ICH". But in my book, you would still see it.

 

[Humblefish]

Thats already been accomplished for fisheries, they just keep their SG at 1.009, and no one gets ICH, and the Parasite pops in the low pressure. Thats all there is to it, if they were to set up their systems for the fish like that, then we "would not get ICH". But in my book, you would still see it.

Unfortunately, osmotic shock therapy is not a long-term solution for hobbyists because a) corals/inverts can't live it in b) it's probably not good for a fish's health long-term. Of course, neither are an issue for the aquafarming industry. They just need to keep the fish alive long enough to eat.

 

[Lionfish Lair]

The ocean is not 1.009. A lot of aquaculture facilities are open pens in the ocean. Some fish don't grow as well if their natural environments are not met. In aquaculture, that want the best return for their money. They do not want stunted growth.

OK, Humble, I figured out a way to copy/paste titles from the search lists. These are my references under the label of vaccine, so the information is within. Let's see how this works....


Orange‐spotted grouper Epinephelus coioides Tak1: molecular identification, expression analysis and functional study
In this study, the complementary (c)DNA sequence encoding orange‐spotted grouper Epinephelus coioides Tak1 (ectak1) was cloned, which has an open reading frame of 1728 bp that encodes 575 amino acids ...
Li, Y. W.; Li, X.; Wang, Z.; Mo, Z. Q.; Dan, X. M.; ... [+]
Journal of Fish Biology , Volume 86 (2) – Feb 1, 2015


A standardized method to propagate Cryptocaryon irritans on a susceptible host pompano Trachinotus ovatus
A standardized procedure for Cryptocaryon irritans propagation was established by means of infecting the animal model pompano Trachinotus ovatus (167.8 ± 15.1 g) with a sub-lethal dose of theronts ...
Dan, X.M.; Li, A.X.; Lin, X.T.; Teng, N.; Zhu, X.Q.
Aquaculture , Volume 258 (1) – Aug 31, 2006


Comparative studies on the immunogenicity of theronts, tomonts and trophonts of Cryptocaryon irritans in grouper
Cryptocaryon irritans is a ciliated obligate parasite of marine fish, causing white spot disease in tropical and sub-tropical regions. Recent studies have shown that fish can mount immune responses ...
Jian-Shan, Bai; Ming-Quan, Xie; Xing-Quan, Zhu; Xue-Ming, Dan; An-Xing, Li
Parasitology Research , Volume 102 (2) – Jan 1, 2008


Immune‐related genes expression profile in orange‐spotted grouper during exposure to Cryptocaryonirritans
Summary Cryptocaryon irritans is one of the most important ectoparasites of marine fish. To identify the potential role of immune‐related genes in antiparasitic immune responses in fish, we monitored ...
LI, Y. W.; DAN, X. M.; ZHANG, T. W.; LUO, X. C.; LI, A. X.
Parasite Immunology , Volume 33 (12) – Dec 1, 2011


Immunization of grouper, Epinephelus coioides , confers protection against a protozoan parasite,Cryptocaryon irritans
The present study aimed to determine whether protection is conferred by immunization of grouper, Epinephelus coioides , against a protozoan parasite, Cryptocaryon irritans . The immunization of E ...
Yambot, Apolinario V.; Song, Yen-Ling
Aquaculture , Volume 260 (1) – Sep 29, 2006


Some characteristics of host–parasite relationship for Cryptocaryon irritans isolated from South China
immune orange-spotted grouper serum and a monoclonal antibody against grouper IgM. Introduction Cryptocaryonirritans is one of the ...
X., Luo; M., Xie; X., Zhu; A., Li
Parasitology Research , Volume 102 (6) – May 1, 2008


There's a couple missing in that group.... I look a little deeper.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

It still amazes me with all the advances in the hobby that a reef safe cure for Ick truly hasn't been invented and if you ask ten different people fallow times you will get 8 different answers.

What amazes me is that there are any medications useful for reefs.

It can be incredibly difficult to kill one organism selectively, even in a patient where there are only two critical species: the patient and the parasite. Developing new drugs can take many years and huge sums of money.

In a reef tank, with vast numbers of different species, many of which may be quite similar to the disease organism, it seems almost impossible to try.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Thats already been accomplished for fisheries, they just keep their SG at 1.009, and no one gets ICH, and the Parasite pops in the low pressure. Thats all there is to it, if they were to set up their systems for the fish like that, then we "would not get ICH". But in my book, you would still see it.

Unfortunately, osmotic shock therapy is not a long-term solution for hobbyists because a) corals/inverts can't live it in b) it's probably not good for a fish's health long-term. Of course, neither are an issue for the aquafarming industry. They just need to keep the fish alive long enough to eat.

Confused semi newb.
Why is osmotic shock not considered as as part of a QT regimen?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It still amazes me with all the advances in the hobby that a reef safe cure for Ick truly hasn't been invented and if you ask ten different people fallow times you will get 8 different answers.

like all things reef. many experiences, scientific or otherwise work.
And some people open their mouths when they shouldn't. Try asking anything about a mandarin.

 

[melypr1985]

Confused semi newb.
Why is osmotic shock not considered as as part of a QT regimen?

It's one of the options a hobbyist has in his tool belt, but it's difficult to execute properly. you have to keep the SG at 1.009 for the ENTIRE 30 days. if it creeps up even just a little the clock starts over. This also can't be done with corals or inverts so they still have to be in QT. We generally recommend a different method because they are easier to execute.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

It's one of the options a hobbyist has in his tool belt, but it's difficult to execute properly. you have to keep the SG at 1.009 for the ENTIRE 30 days. if it creeps up even just a little the clock starts over. This also can't be done with corals or inverts so they still have to be in QT. We generally recommend a different method because they are easier to execute.

thank you.

 

[40Gallon]

I'm a QT'er....I've never used hypo because frankly it would make me nervous plus I'd always wonder what if my refractomer was off .001 even though I calibrate and wasted time not being exactly where I needed to be at. Guess I'm a QT,Cupramine/Prazipro kind of guy.

 

[Gwitness]

If I'm going to take my fish out and qt them and let my tank go fallow for 72 days or whatever it is, do I need to take out hermits, snails and shrimp also?? And what do you treat the qt tank with?

 

[melypr1985]

If I'm going to take my fish out and qt them and let my tank go fallow for 72 days or whatever it is, do I need to take out hermits, snails and shrimp also?? And what do you treat the qt tank with?

It's 76 days and no leave all inverts and corals in the tank.

 

[MatsReef]

Since I have smaller tanks with only a few fish I much prefer to tank transfer them. Have a couple 10gal aquariums, heaters just for it.

 

[Jlobes]

Since I have smaller tanks with only a few fish I much prefer to tank transfer them. Have a couple 10gal aquariums, heaters just for it.

same here. I have three 10G tanks, 3 identical heaters, new tiny airstone with each transfer, and today made two eggcrate lids for the TTM with wrasses and jumpers.

 

[Gwitness]

It's 76 days and no leave all inverts and corals in the tank.

Okay got it! What about treating the fish in quarantine? What kind of meds?