The real Black Box light study

[theatrus]

That is so true but after being ripped apart by people because I was not a lab or BRS or someone like Danna Riddle, then new tests are needed to show more concrete evidence in the numbers.

People are quick to dismiss data that doesn’t somehow agree with their viewpoints, but don’t back things up with anything concrete themselves.

When dealing with data, I feel you’ve done a very good job staying objective. Document how you’re testing it, what you’re recording, and any other data (number of repetitions , consistency / std dev, etc) and then publish the results and raw sets.

 

[Jonathan Troutt]

That is so true but after being ripped apart by people because I was not a lab or BRS or someone like Danna Riddle, then new tests are needed to show more concrete evidence in the numbers.

Oh I read those. Let me say this man. I really appreciate what you are doing and as long as you are taking the time to make sure the same instrument is used in the same way and in the same manner for every test its won't matter.

I think it's a fantastic thing you are doing unfortunately fan bois that want to feel important or superior because they spent ridiculous amounts of money on name brand lights are gonna express themselves.

I say don't listen to them unless they bring up valid points in a construct manner.

There are plenty of people that want to see real data given by unbiased people regarding lighting. So much of this hobby is ruled by the most expensive is always the best school of thought and if you cannot afford it then you are somehow not in the club. At least that is how its been for me.

Money can be such an evil thing and studies that will prove that the cheaper options can perform similar to the most expensive options are going to ruffle some feathers because that data could effect bottom lines.

regardless I am for sure on your side and will back you as long as I continue to see unbiased data that is taken in a way that is as consistent and possible from one test to the next! I would be willing to donate funds to help support a project like this.

Thank you again, sir! I am looking forward to more data when it comes!!

 

[Manose]

People are quick to dismiss data that doesn’t somehow agree with their viewpoints, but don’t back things up with anything concrete themselves.

When dealing with data, I feel you’ve done a very good job staying objective. Document how you’re testing it, what you’re recording, and any other data (number of repetitions , consistency / std dev, etc) and then publish the results and raw sets.

Oh I read those. Let me say this man. I really appreciate what you are doing and as long as you are taking the time to make sure the same instrument is used in the same way and in the same manner for every test its won't matter.

I think it's a fantastic thing you are doing unfortunately fan bois that want to feel important or superior because they spent ridiculous amounts of money on name brand lights are gonna express themselves.

I say don't listen to them unless they bring up valid points in a construct manner.

There are plenty of people that want to see real data given by unbiased people regarding lighting. So much of this hobby is ruled by the most expensive is always the best school of thought and if you cannot afford it then you are somehow not in the club. At least that is how its been for me.

Money can be such an evil thing and studies that will prove that the cheaper options can perform similar to the most expensive options are going to ruffle some feathers because that data could effect bottom lines.

regardless I am for sure on your side and will back you as long as I continue to see unbiased data that is taken in a way that is as consistent and possible from one test to the next! I would be willing to donate funds to help support a project like this.

Thank you again, sir! I am looking forward to more data when it comes!!

Thank you guys for your kind words as I will strive for the best data we can get given the tools on hand. The next data will be taken on Saturday and will be the Radion xr15 pro gen4.

 

[symon_say]

I'll just add what I always say in this thread, just keep the good work, those that don't add value to what you're doing shouldn't write anything.

Instead they should take their cars or take a flight to were you're and help you do it.

So forget about then, a lot of us are really interested in what you're doing, and your work can be a game changer.

 

[Todvod]

I may crack open the K7 just to see what's going on, but, given how many different lights, from kessil to black box to Jebao to diy, I have seen the inside of, I am sure it's nothing new under the sun. Just a less expensive route.

I have so many projects going on now, my modded black box, testing the K7, upcoming hardware store diffuser tests and my own DIY projects, I should probably leave it the heck alone.

I’d be interested in that hardware store diffuser test.

 

[dantimdad]

I’d be interested in that hardware store diffuser test.

It's coming. I have to get the 93 finished first.

I promise, it is going to happen soon!

 

[w2inc]

That is so true but after being ripped apart by people because I was not a lab or BRS or someone like Danna Riddle, then new tests are needed to show more concrete evidence in the numbers.

I bought my Radion xr30 g4 pro's after watching the BRS review. I had the same tank in the review, and ordered the same lights from the video. When I got them set up and checked the par with my apogee meter as well as my Seneye. My values were easily 100 par less than I had expected. I should have read their disclaimer a little closer.

I called several times to ask how this could be. I followed their recommendations, and listened to their excuses, but in the end I ended up ordering an additional set of lights to get the levels and spread I had hoped for.

BRS research is properly termed "investigates" and has a long way to go. My second point is that it is not hard to be a "Danna Riddle" if you spend a little extra effort eliminating variables. We all want solid repeatable info and he has some experience with creating that. I am sure he would be glad to offer advice on setting up a solid study.

Research design is difficult and results can be easily misinterpreted. I had a professor tell me that it is called re-search because you will have to do it again. I appreciate your efforts. Let me know if there is any way I can help.

For what it is worth, I love my Radion's they have been easy and consistent for me. It was simple to find a color set that I liked, it is nice to have different spectrums during the day and occasionally I use the acclimation mode. Beyond that I have left them untouched since I installed them. My corals look great to me and I do think the lights play a part in it, but ICP testing has also played a big part in my tank.

I love luxury and I don't mind paying for it, but I want to know what I am paying for and you and in a good place to show that. I am setting up two new tanks now and I simply want to replicate the portion of my xr30's that I use. (Which are the intensity and color.) I am sure that there are equally effective and much cheaper options to get me those two things and not spend money on features I won't use.

I also see plenty of room to improve the color mixture, par distribution, and cooling of my Radion's and would love to know what is available. For the new lighting I would love to pay a price that reflects the cost of the diodes, the heat sink and assembly. I don't need tons of control, a big name, big claims or lots of tech support behind them.

Your efforts are a big help to me. You are helping me to compare parts to parts. Once I see what I am paying for it will be easy to make educated choices about other aspects like UL listings, warrantees, tech support and user interface and what they are worth to me.

Keep it up and let me know if I can help.

 

[Lowell Lemon]

Thanks for doing this test. I love the idea and the approach to testing on a budget that most of us can afford. I do want to see some longer term test to see if the construction stands the test of time. I have a few used Kessil's around due to the ease of use. I don't need fake thunderstorms, clouds passing by or any disco strobe lights to scare my fish! Keep it simple on the light design and effective. I also don't want to support the knock off businesses in China that steal technology from actual innovators!

Looking forward to your results!

 

[ph123uk]

Registered here just to say thankyou for doing this, even over here in the UK, the time and effort you are spending from your own life is appreciated.

Thankyou very much (also, Vipar spectra owner here over a 45cm cube )

 

[MSB123]

I bought my Radion xr30 g4 pro's after watching the BRS review. I had the same tank in the review, and ordered the same lights from the video. When I got them set up and checked the par with my apogee meter as well as my Seneye. My values were easily 100 par less than I had expected. I should have read their disclaimer a little closer.

I called several times to ask how this could be. I followed their recommendations, and listened to their excuses, but in the end I ended up ordering an additional set of lights to get the levels and spread I had hoped for.

BRS research is properly termed "investigates" and has a long way to go. My second point is that it is not hard to be a "Danna Riddle" if you spend a little extra effort eliminating variables. We all want solid repeatable info and he has some experience with creating that. I am sure he would be glad to offer advice on setting up a solid study.

Research design is difficult and results can be easily misinterpreted. I had a professor tell me that it is called re-search because you will have to do it again. I appreciate your efforts. Let me know if there is any way I can help.

For what it is worth, I love my Radion's they have been easy and consistent for me. It was simple to find a color set that I liked, it is nice to have different spectrums during the day and occasionally I use the acclimation mode. Beyond that I have left them untouched since I installed them. My corals look great to me and I do think the lights play a part in it, but ICP testing has also played a big part in my tank.

I love luxury and I don't mind paying for it, but I want to know what I am paying for and you and in a good place to show that. I am setting up two new tanks now and I simply want to replicate the portion of my xr30's that I use. (Which are the intensity and color.) I am sure that there are equally effective and much cheaper options to get me those two things and not spend money on features I won't use.

I also see plenty of room to improve the color mixture, par distribution, and cooling of my Radion's and would love to know what is available. For the new lighting I would love to pay a price that reflects the cost of the diodes, the heat sink and assembly. I don't need tons of control, a big name, big claims or lots of tech support behind them.

Your efforts are a big help to me. You are helping me to compare parts to parts. Once I see what I am paying for it will be easy to make educated choices about other aspects like UL listings, warrantees, tech support and user interface and what they are worth to me.

Keep it up and let me know if I can help.

What do you mean about the disclaimer?

 

[w2inc]

What do you mean about the disclaimer?

Here is one of them.

 

[Manose]

Here are some pictures from the inside of the K7. Noopsyche sent me this info: aluminum substrate is made of superconducting aluminum substrate material (8.0W/m•K), while the conventional aluminum substrate is (3.0W/m•K).
Lights look pretty well made but going to need a circuitry person to give us a better idea.

 

[Manose]

I bought my Radion xr30 g4 pro's after watching the BRS review. I had the same tank in the review, and ordered the same lights from the video. When I got them set up and checked the par with my apogee meter as well as my Seneye. My values were easily 100 par less than I had expected. I should have read their disclaimer a little closer.

I called several times to ask how this could be. I followed their recommendations, and listened to their excuses, but in the end I ended up ordering an additional set of lights to get the levels and spread I had hoped for.

BRS research is properly termed "investigates" and has a long way to go. My second point is that it is not hard to be a "Danna Riddle" if you spend a little extra effort eliminating variables. We all want solid repeatable info and he has some experience with creating that. I am sure he would be glad to offer advice on setting up a solid study.

Research design is difficult and results can be easily misinterpreted. I had a professor tell me that it is called re-search because you will have to do it again. I appreciate your efforts. Let me know if there is any way I can help.

For what it is worth, I love my Radion's they have been easy and consistent for me. It was simple to find a color set that I liked, it is nice to have different spectrums during the day and occasionally I use the acclimation mode. Beyond that I have left them untouched since I installed them. My corals look great to me and I do think the lights play a part in it, but ICP testing has also played a big part in my tank.

I love luxury and I don't mind paying for it, but I want to know what I am paying for and you and in a good place to show that. I am setting up two new tanks now and I simply want to replicate the portion of my xr30's that I use. (Which are the intensity and color.) I am sure that there are equally effective and much cheaper options to get me those two things and not spend money on features I won't use.

I also see plenty of room to improve the color mixture, par distribution, and cooling of my Radion's and would love to know what is available. For the new lighting I would love to pay a price that reflects the cost of the diodes, the heat sink and assembly. I don't need tons of control, a big name, big claims or lots of tech support behind them.

Your efforts are a big help to me. You are helping me to compare parts to parts. Once I see what I am paying for it will be easy to make educated choices about other aspects like UL listings, warrantees, tech support and user interface and what they are worth to me.

Keep it up and let me know if I can help.

I hope that this study will shed some "light" on how good or how bad any of these lights are. I thank you for writing this as this has taken a lot out of me in more ways than one.
Tomorrow I will be measuring the par from the Radion XR15w as to get more numbers to put against our other 3 performance lights.

 

[wangspeed]

Here are some pictures from the inside of the K7. Noopsyche sent me this info: aluminum substrate is made of superconducting aluminum substrate material (8.0W/m•K), while the conventional aluminum substrate is (3.0W/m•K).
Lights look pretty well made but going to need a circuitry person to give us a better idea.

Looks like a clean upgradable design! I may switch to these for my frag tank. Thanks for the pictures!

 

[Manose]

I am curious if anyone that received the K1 light from Noopsyche has any coral/color growth data yet as that is what I really need to do a test on.

 

[Why-Me]

Keep up the good objective work! I'm watching as I have a radion xr15 G4 pro for my 50 gal cube but my daughter's tank needs a light and I'd rather not spend that much on her 20 gallon tank. Been looking at those black box lights for a while now and this study is great for my situation thanks and keep it up!!

 

[sstanley223]

Keep up the good objective work! I'm watching as I have a radion xr15 G4 pro for my 50 gal cube but my daughter's tank needs a light and I'd rather not spend that much on her 20 gallon tank. Been looking at those black box lights for a while now and this study is great for my situation thanks and keep it up!!

My gf has an AI prime on her 20 gallon and we love it! The thing is only 200$ new

 

[Idaho Mojo]

Looking forward to seeing the results of these tests!
Currently running 2 viparspectra 165 over my 100g and considering options for a 20g long frag tank [emoji16]

 

[oreo54]

is made of superconducting aluminum substrate material (8.0W/m•K)

Marketing bs..
They shouldn't really bother trying to "expound" on it..

http://www.aalco.co.uk/datasheets/Aalco-Metals-Ltd_Aluminium-Alloy-1050A-H14-Sheet_57.pdf.ashx
202W/ m K
Pure aluminum is 205W/ m K

somethings def not right w/ their number...

sorry, it's a disease....

It's copper below not Cooper..

http://www.ngfworld.com/en/en_fiber/en_high_thermal_conductivity.html

Even 80 would be low..must have got lost in translation...
awaiting carbon fiber heat sinks..
THEN one can brag..

BTW other than that, looks pretty clean.. Would prefer not to have those big electrolytic caps though.. Another long story..

 

[crusso1993]

Here are some pictures from the inside of the K7. Noopsyche sent me this info: aluminum substrate is made of superconducting aluminum substrate material (8.0W/m•K), while the conventional aluminum substrate is (3.0W/m•K).
Lights look pretty well made but going to need a circuitry person to give us a better idea.

Thanks for going through the trouble of taking it apart!
Perhaps @theatrus can take a look at the circuitry. He's definitely waaaaay ahead of me and many others with this type of thing.