The real Black Box light study

[dantimdad]

Marketing crap..
They shouldn't really bother trying to "expound" on it..

http://www.aalco.co.uk/datasheets/Aalco-Metals-Ltd_Aluminium-Alloy-1050A-H14-Sheet_57.pdf.ashx
202W/ m K
Pure aluminum is 205W/ m K

somethings def not right w/ their number...

sorry, it's a disease....

It's copper below not Cooper..

http://www.ngfworld.com/en/en_fiber/en_high_thermal_conductivity.html

Even 80 would be low..must have got lost in translation...
awaiting carbon fiber heat sinks..
THEN one can brag..

BTW other than that, looks pretty clean.. Would prefer not to have those big electrolytic caps though.. Another long story..

I was going to point out the caps as well. Plus, the numbers from their aluminum heatsink aren't realistic.

Btw, I put my hand on the heatsink and it's warm to the touch. If there numbers were right, it would be almost cold all the time.

Just my .02

 

[w2inc]

Here are some pictures from the inside of the K7. Noopsyche sent me this info: aluminum substrate is made of superconducting aluminum substrate material (8.0W/m•K), while the conventional aluminum substrate is (3.0W/m•K).
Lights look pretty well made but going to need a circuitry person to give us a better idea.

This page has a photo of the light spread and color blend when it is shined on a white wall. I would have saved a ton of money if I could have seen a photo like that before I bought my freshwater Orphek light bar.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/noopsyche-k7-pro-ii-95w.506365/page-8#post-5540910

 

[crusso1993]

I was going to point out the caps as well. Plus, the numbers from their aluminum heatsink aren't realistic.

Btw, I put my hand on the heatsink and it's warm to the touch. If there numbers were right, it would be almost cold all the time.

Just my .02

With that level of heat the degradation of the LEDs will speed up over time. It causes me to wonder how long the light will remain effective. Perhaps someone who got the lights for testing can run month x month par numbers. Providing they have a good, reliable par meter.
And one last thing, why does it cost .02 but it's only a penny for your thoughts? This has always puzzled me!

 

[dantimdad]

With that level of heat the degradation of the LEDs will speed up over time. It causes me to wonder how long the light will remain effective. Perhaps someone who got the lights for testing can run month x month par numbers. Providing they have a good, reliable par meter.
And one last thing, why does it cost .02 but it's only a penny for your thoughts? This has always puzzled me!

It's not warm enough to cause degradation. I have had warmer lights running without issues. Just wanted to point out that the heat dissipation number couldn't be right or you wouldn't feel any warmth at all.

I believe the light to be sufficiently cooled long term.

Sorry for the confusion.

As for the difference in price. My opinion is worth twice most people's thoughts. ;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious

 

[crusso1993]

As for the difference in price. My opinion is worth twice most people's thoughts. ;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious;Hilarious

I concur and relate. Obviously, we both suffer from our modesty knowing no bounds! ;Smuggrin;Smuggrin;Smuggrin

 

[crusso1993]

@dantimdad - BTW - safe travels heading up to hang out with @Manose tomorrow!

 

[dantimdad]

Next Saturday.

Tomorrow I am meeting up with a buddy to get some frags and straighten out his bird nest wiring job under his tank. I have a real issue with messy wiring. LOL!

I printed up a BUNCH of brackets and clips last night to take with me and picked up a roll of double sided Velcro as well.

That reminds me I forgot something in build update...

 

[oreo54]

I was going to point out the caps as well. Plus, the numbers from their aluminum heatsink aren't realistic.

Btw, I put my hand on the heatsink and it's warm to the touch. If there numbers were right, it would be almost cold all the time.

Just my .02

Err. debateable..

The heat sink is an improvement over a cpu-to-air interface because heat flows more quickly both from the cpu to the heat sink and from the heat sink to the air. conduction from the cpu to the heat sink is faster because the heat sink is a better conductor of heat than air.

Way I look at it , the warmer the sink the better the transfer to the sink..and the better it "leaves" the sink.
Transfer will "stall" a bit in air.
good discussion..
https://physics.stackexchange.com/q...-top-of-a-cpu-which-is-hot-cool-down-your-cpu

 

[Manose]

Marketing crap..
They shouldn't really bother trying to "expound" on it..

http://www.aalco.co.uk/datasheets/Aalco-Metals-Ltd_Aluminium-Alloy-1050A-H14-Sheet_57.pdf.ashx
202W/ m K
Pure aluminum is 205W/ m K

somethings def not right w/ their number...

sorry, it's a disease....

It's copper below not Cooper..

http://www.ngfworld.com/en/en_fiber/en_high_thermal_conductivity.html

Even 80 would be low..must have got lost in translation...
awaiting carbon fiber heat sinks..
THEN one can brag..

BTW other than that, looks pretty clean.. Would prefer not to have those big electrolytic caps though.. Another long story..

I will let them answer your question cause this is not my data it is theirs.

 

[dantimdad]

Of course. We aren't killing the messenger at all.

We are just pointing out glaring deficiencies in the information they provided.

 

[Idaho Mojo]

Of course. We aren't killing the messenger at all.

We are just pointing out glaring deficiencies in the information they provided.

I think that is why so many people are anxious for these results. Too many companies provide inconsistent, overinflated, and inaccurate data. Not to mention some of the overseas products have terrible "chinglish" and errors that make customers question the actual validity of any info they provide.

 

[dantimdad]

I think that is why so many people are anxious for these results. Too many companies provide inconsistent, overinflated, and inaccurate data. Not to mention some of the overseas products have terrible "chinglish" and errors that make customers question the actual validity of any info they provide.

While there is definitely a language barrier, there also can be direct advantage taken because of it and we need to be wary of any information given by anyone from any country.

I have personally been involved in a sale of equipment where they were deliberately deceitful (ebay believed it and sided with me) but tried to play dumb and say it was lost in translation.

Rule of thumb here is listen, nod and then check every scrap of information for validity.

 

[Manose]

While there is definitely a language barrier, there also can be direct advantage taken because of it and we need to be wary of any information given by anyone from any country.

I have personally been involved in a sale of equipment where they were deliberately deceitful (ebay believed it and sided with me) but tried to play dumb and say it was lost in translation.

Rule of thumb here is listen, nod and then check every scrap of information for validity.

I so agree with this and that will be part of the test. We need to come and ask these manufacturers certain questions that are relevant to our wants and needs.
Let them form the light to our standards and wants, then it is a win/win for both.

 

[noopsyche]

Marketing crap..
They shouldn't really bother trying to "expound" on it..

http://www.aalco.co.uk/datasheets/Aalco-Metals-Ltd_Aluminium-Alloy-1050A-H14-Sheet_57.pdf.ashx
202W/ m K
Pure aluminum is 205W/ m K

somethings def not right w/ their number...

sorry, it's a disease....

It's copper below not Cooper..

http://www.ngfworld.com/en/en_fiber/en_high_thermal_conductivity.html

Even 80 would be low..must have got lost in translation...
awaiting carbon fiber heat sinks..
THEN one can brag..

BTW other than that, looks pretty clean.. Would prefer not to have those big electrolytic caps though.. Another long story..

 

[Jonathan Troutt]

I dont like calling it an insulation layer. On MCPCB boards Thermally conductive adhesive layer is more appropriate. A better image is included.

 

[oreo54]

Must be a matter of translation..

aluminum substrate is made of superconducting aluminum substrate material (8.0W/m•K), while the conventional aluminum substrate is (3.0W/m•K).

In other words you are just referring to the "insulation layer" heat transfer.which is quite different than what I erroneously was thinking..

There are a lot o layers..
Gets confusing..

none of which (but the dielectric layer) is as low as 8

However, most LED substrates have a dielectric layer between the die attach pad and the metal core. This layer has comparatively high thermal resistance — so much so that the total thermal resistance of the LED stack is overwhelmingly dominated by the thermal resistance of the dielectric layer (Table 2).

https://www.ledsmagazine.com/articl...tion-of-high-power-leds-for-reliable-ssl.html

If insulation area = dielectric area...
"8" would be good for that layer.

but has nothing to do w/ "super aluminum"..

But apologies for my misunderstanding of which layer you were referring to..

It's complicated.

 

[noopsyche]

The material of solder paste also can effect the LED thermal conduction, this step can transfer to the next step directly. We use the solder paste are M705-GRN360-K2-V, the metal meterial are Sn96.5（67W/m·K）/Ag3.0（429W/m·K）/Cu0.5（401W/m·K）

 

[Manose]

Got the Radion XR15 numbers today and was impressed as I should be.

 

[Manose]

So far for the 24inx24in cube comparison we have the following:

 

[w2inc]

So far for the 24inx24in cube comparison we have the following:

Thanks for posting that. Any guess as to why the Kessil is so even in 3 corners an 20 points up in the 4th?