The trick to grow chaeto?

[ClownWrangler]

Also, with that tiny ball, I would go easy on the ChaetoGro. I'd probably go at 1/4 of the recommended dose until the chaeto ball is bigger. What's your bio load like? How many fish? The recommended dosage is based on a fully stocked tank.

 

[kilnakorr]

OK. I don't think flow is your issue if that spray bar is tumbling the Chaeto well. That ball looks healthy though. The two most common mistakes people make is adding Chaeto too early, before there are nutrients, which can make it brittle and fall apart and not adding enough when the tank is ready for it. If you have measurable nitrates and good lighting, I'm baffled as to what's wrong. But even under good conditions that tiny ball will take a while to get to a respectable size. I think you may have corrected your issues, but now it just needs time to grow. I wouldn't be too concerned unless you have both rising nitrates and no growth. I had a ball that size in the setup I showed in the picture and it could not keep up with the nitrates. I had to do water changes until it got bigger. Now that its filled in, I haven't had to do a water change in over 6 months. I just remove about 1/3 every couple weeks.

I never had zero readings on nutrients.
I think the problem could be light intensity along with missing trace elements.
Time will tell, as I have lowered both light intensity, and adding chaetogro.
If I have no white or brittle chaeto in a weeks time I hope I've corrected the issue.

 

[ClownWrangler]

I never had zero readings on nutrients.
I think the problem could be light intensity along with missing trace elements.
Time will tell, as I have lowered both light intensity, and adding chaetogro.
If I have no white or brittle chaeto in a weeks time I hope I've corrected the issue.

Looks good. It will take a while for that ball to get to a size big enough to do much in terms of nutrient export. But it looks healthy.

 

[kilnakorr]

Looks good. It will take a while for that ball to get to a size big enough to do much in terms of nutrient export. But it looks healthy.

Nitrate seems to be steady at around 10, and currently running rowaphos in a small reactor.
Hopefully, I can ease off the reactor as the chaeto grows.
If I can't get the chaeto to grow at an effecient rate, I might as well remove it.

 

[Rjramos]

I follow ecosystemaquarium method with miracle mud for years. I have dedicated refugium sumps sized according to their recommendations per display size and flow through pattern (water in mid water, water out on the surface). If you look at their site, there is also a recommended flow rate through the refugium, a minimum but also a maximum flow through rate. I pay attention to flow rate and divert water in another direction from display overflow so to reduce the amount of water through the refugium. I don’t worry about whether it tumbles or not. I clean the surface water and flip it once a week. Skimmer was running 4 hrs at night, since April, skimmer has been completely off. Lighting refugium 24hrs with a DIY LED that is dimmed way down but capable of 45 watts max.
Here are several set ups with dedicated and elevated refugiums.
The last picture showing a chaeto eggcrate sandwich ready for harvest. Note,the growth is even on both sides from flipping it.

 

[kilnakorr]

I follow ecosystemaquarium method with miracle mud for years. I have dedicated refugium sumps sized according to their recommendations per display size and flow through pattern (water in mid water, water out on the surface). If you look at their site, there is also a recommended flow rate through the refugium, a minimum but also a maximum flow through rate. I pay attention to flow rate and divert water in another direction from display overflow so to reduce the amount of water through the refugium. I don’t worry about whether it tumbles or not. I clean the surface water and flip it once a week. Skimmer was running 4 hrs at night, since April, skimmer has been completely off. Lighting refugium 24hrs with a DIY LED that is dimmed way down but capable of 45 watts max.
Here are several set ups with dedicated and elevated refugiums.
The last picture showing a chaeto eggcrate sandwich ready for harvest. Note,the growth is even on both sides from flipping it.

Great pictures, but no way I can or want to fit such a refugium.
I added the refugium/chaeto section, as I figured it had many benefits. I guess this depends on wether the chaeto will grow or not.

 

[Rjramos]

Great pictures, but no way I can or want to fit such a refugium.
I added the refugium/chaeto section, as I figured it had many benefits. I guess this depends on wether the chaeto will grow or not.

There are many ways and methods to successful reef keeping. When I started in 1995, it was Berlin Method (a double capacity skimmer and live rock). Then came deep sand beds. Nowadays, there are many combined methods, both natural and chemically. In my case, a refugium with enough capacity to handle nutrients so efficiently, that I have to turn off the skimmer to not end up at zero PO4, NO3.
I have the means and ability to construct my own custom sized plexiglas sumps fit to size. I also stack these dedicated sumps above a 2nd sump to handle all water volume. It takes measurements and proper planning to do this, even the stands are 40” tall to accommodate.
I agree, a large dedicated refugium is not easy to accommodate, but the benefits in my opinion, are far better than the best oversized skimmer can provide, and this, I have experienced firsthand throughout years in reefkeeping.

 

[kilnakorr]

There are many ways and methods to successful reef keeping. When I started in 1995, it was Berlin Method (a double capacity skimmer and live rock). Then came deep sand beds. Nowadays, there are many combined methods, both natural and chemically. In my case, a refugium with enough capacity to handle nutrients so efficiently, that I have to turn off the skimmer to not end up at zero PO4, NO3.
I have the means and ability to construct my own custom sized plexiglas sumps fit to size. I also stack these dedicated sumps above a 2nd sump to handle all water volume. It takes measurements and proper planning to do this, even the stands are 40” tall to accommodate.
I agree, a large dedicated refugium is not easy to accommodate, but the benefits in my opinion, are far better than the best oversized skimmer can provide, and this, I have experienced firsthand throughout years in reefkeeping.

I don't doubt it.
But if I can't get the algae to grow, then size doean't really matter.

 

[Rjramos]

I don't doubt it.
But if I can't get the algae to grow, then size doean't really matter.

I will admit I have had situations where chaeto didn’t grow on initial set up or simply stopped doing well after a period of doing good.
I find that if PO4 is elevated around 1 or more the chaeto seems to struggle (gets brittle).
By no means am I a miracle mud representative, but I find that it’s proper use as refugium substrate, at the proper capacity and flow for display size works.
Whatever the secret ingredients and trace elements Leng Sy put into it, it works.
One of the biggest deterrents in reef keeping is cost, and of course, what’s it worth? A 10 lb bag of mud for $60 bucks, no way some think. And how big does the refugium have to be? No way I can’t fit it underneath. So instead of relying on 1 thing to do something very efficiently, you got a little of this additive in a reactor to bring this up and a little of this to bring it down or keep it in check. What you end up with is a whole lot of testing and a sea-saw effect of instability.
On a most recent experience I tried a cheaper substrate, Brightwells Korallagoon, things started well but after about a year I noticed chaeto not doing well accompanied elevated PO4 and NO3 around 5.
I changed 50% back to MM and things are starting to look better and the chaeto growth has improved. I am soon gonna change the other 50% to see what happens.

 

[kilnakorr]

To update.
The new chaeto, cheatogro dosing and dimmed light hasn't worked.
I just picked up a little more chaeto (same place, so the chaeto is still from my first batch).
As you can see in the picture, the chaeto turn dark and more solid in my refugium:

I'm wondering if it could be it's not getting enough light?
It has not turned white this time, which could be due to the chaetogro dosing, but not much growth which could indicate a light issue.

 

[attiland]

To update.
The new chaeto, cheatogro dosing and dimmed light hasn't worked.
I just picked up a little more chaeto (same place, so the chaeto is still from my first batch).
As you can see in the picture, the chaeto turn dark and more solid in my refugium:

I'm wondering if it could be it's not getting enough light?
It has not turned white this time, which could be due to the chaetogro dosing, but not much growth which could indicate a light issue.

I would love to know the answer for this. Both are healthy. Mine is now like the darker batch in the reactor and slowed down recently since phosphate is nitrate seems to be lower than when I started it but that is why I have it

 

[kilnakorr]

I would love to know the answer for this. Both are healthy. Mine is now like the darker batch in the reactor and slowed down recently since phosphate is nitrate seems to be lower than when I started it but that is why I have it

I would like to know the answer too!
Right now, I'm 99% sure that nutrients and trace elements are not the issue, which leaves me with flow and/or light.
I did increase the flow so it is now tumbling, which makes me believe it is a light issue.

 

[attiland]

I would like to know the answer too!
Right now, I'm 99% sure that nutrients and trace elements are not the issue, which leaves me with flow and/or light.
I did increase the flow so it is now tumbling, which makes me believe it is a light issue.

Well on my Tunzr reaction I can’t change the light only the times of on / of. I had both type of growth in the same reactor.
Mir is water parameters but not sure which one

 

[kilnakorr]

An update.
My friend switched to ZEOvit, so shut down the refugium.
I got his lush green chaeto, and his AI fuge light. Took about a 2 week before it started turning white and dying in my tank.
I have no idea, what it is that is making the chaeto unhappy in my tank, but I'm done with it.
Thanks for the help, but seems algae is generally unhappy in my tank.

 

[landlubber]

looks like its too late but an ICP test can be a valuable asset. also never did catch what OP's nutrient levels were as "plenty" isn't a useful measurement.

 

[kilnakorr]

looks like its too late but an ICP test can be a valuable asset. also never did catch what OP's nutrient levels were as "plenty" isn't a useful measurement.

I do have an ICP test somewhere, so could check.
However, NO3 been 3ppm at lowest, and PO4 been around 0.05 (had a quick dip to zero, shortly after adding the chaeto).
Been dosing 3 part, along with chaeto gro.
NO3 was 5ppm and and and PO4 0.04, yesterday.

 

[landlubber]

I do have an ICP test somewhere, so could check.
However, NO3 been 3ppm at lowest, and PO4 been around 0.05 (had a quick dip to zero, shortly after adding the chaeto).
Been dosing 3 part, along with chaeto gro.
NO3 was 5ppm and and and PO4 0.04, yesterday.

does your system have any green hair algae growing in it?
5ppm NO3 and 0.04ppm are about as ideal results as you could ask for. the problem just could be a lack of available nutrients to feed the macroalgae.

 

[kilnakorr]

does your system have any green hair algae growing in it?
5ppm NO3 and 0.04ppm are about as ideal results as you could ask for. the problem just could be a lack of available nutrients to feed the macroalgae.

No GHA. Never seen any other algae than diatoms in the beginning, and som green coating on the rocks afterwards (and some brown algae that forms on the glass during the week).

I did have 20+ppm NO3 and 0.3 ppm PO4 sometime ago, but chaeto still didn't grow.

 

[Wyvern]

I killed mine.

Too little food, it was fine with a CFL, but as soon as I hit it with a 15W grow lamp, it grew a bit, then died.

 

[landlubber]

No GHA. Never seen any other algae than diatoms in the beginning, and som green coating on the rocks afterwards (and some brown algae that forms on the glass during the week).

I did have 20+ppm NO3 and 0.3 ppm PO4 sometime ago, but chaeto still didn't grow.

yea i wouldn't stress about trying to run a refugium with those great numbers. whatever you're amount you're feeding and however you're managing the waste its working