These lights are done for good....or are they?

[BZOFIQ]

Running ATI T5s with LED strip, no plans to change any time soon.

 

[BZOFIQ]

I would really like to know how long leds last.

I can easily answer that - They last until the next generation of the same fixture comes out.

 

[stanlalee]

I have halides and am not giving them up until bulbs/replacement parts are not available. Just got new ballast a few months ago and about 3 years worth of light bulbs. I would change if I needed to but I'm not having any heat issues or inability to keep things. The cost savings is probably the most ridiculous reason I've seen (really are two 250w halides putting you in the poor house but the 300w of leds, 2 300w heaters, 1500g return pump, six wave makers, $800 worth of coral you bought last month, your $20 bottle of every other month aminos, your calcium reactor or daily dosing and four $180 tangs are all comfortably in the budget?).

 

[X-37B]

I for one, hope metal halides never disappear. As long as I run a reef, and as long as metal halide is still manufactured, I will run them on my tank. You just can't beat the ease (nothing to adjust). Just turn them on and go... And coral growth doesn't lie, so the corals seem to like halides too. But I'm old school, having been at this game for over 20 years, I like the old school approach. But like most things in this hobby, it comes down to personal preference. It does disappoint me that new reefers would never even know halide lighting was an option, because everything is LED. The marketing machine for LED's runs on overdrive, because obviously, that's where the money is.

Old school and old too, lol.
The one issue I see with led's and its fairly common is the constant changing of light levels with people hoping it changes other problems they have with their tank

I was guilty of it with my black boxes.

 

[BZOFIQ]

It is my understanding that Europe is trying to phase out T5s now so they are on the way out...

Can you substantiate such a claim?

T5s will be around for many years still, too widely in use to easily just phase out.

MH have been in decline for some time.

Problem with MH isn't lack of "quality" of light; they excel at providing plenty of light in proper spectrum. Eventually, people will run into problems with sourcing parts/bulbs.

LEDs keep getting better and last longer.

They don't need to last longer - like iPhones, the next gen is around the corner

 

[X-37B]

I can easily answer that - They last until the next generation of the same fixture comes out.

Well said!
I would still like to know what the par and spectral output is say 5 years down the road for leds, anyone!
Has anyone run led's for that long without issues?
With MH and T5's you get a new light every time you change your bulb.
Thats alot cheaper than new Led's every few years, lol.

 

[X-37B]

Can you substantiate such a claim?

T5s will be around for many years still, too widely in use to easily just phase out.



Problem with MH isn't lack of "quality" of light; they excel at providing plenty of light in proper spectrum. Eventually, people will run into problems with sourcing parts/bulbs.




They don't need to last longer - like iPhones, the next gen is around the corner

Good analogy! It makes perfect sense when its put that way.

 

[BZOFIQ]

With MH and T5's you get a new light every time you change your bulb.
Thats alot cheaper than new Led's every few years, lol.

Cheaper indeed!

As I long suspected; T5s last anywhere from 18-24 months not the 8-12 month you were previously told. BRS even had a video on that. I've always replaced them at 24 months without any issues.

I have no interest in replacing the ATI fixtures for as long as they work. Even then I'll probably source another from a reefer that just needed to have the latest and "greatest"

 

[xtian]

Still have both but just running 1 MH atm. Will continue to use them and hope they're never discontinued.

 

[Bpb]

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?

Yes, but separately, never together

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

Negative

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

Lol which one? They’re still going on to this very day


I like metal halides and T5’s. I don’t use them but I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them if someone wants to use them. I like the look and the spectral composition. They’ve still got a perfectly usable place in the hobby and I anticipate at least some limited fashion of availability for several more years.

 

[92Miata]

I would really like to know how long leds last.
Seems everyone upgrades every couple years.
Are their any studys on leds that plot their output over several years over a reef tank in the real world?
Maybe I missed them.
Anyone have a link?
I really like the orpheks but the Radions on 14k setting look real close to my 14K MH.
Leds are cheaper if you buy cheap ones.
I ran black boxes and they work.
Top of the line leds are not cheap if you run a large tank.
My next upgrade will be 3x my current 120 and will be MH and high end leds, the best of both world, imo.

People upgrade LEDs because the new fixtures are better - not because the old ones are worn out. They'er still rapidly improving. There are plenty of AI Sols and such out there growing corals - and older LEDs are a huge bargain - my $200 G3 XR30 grows corals just fine.


People keep MH and T5 fixtures because they've been static for 15 years. If someone came out with a new fixture that had 20% better output one 20% less energy, you guys would be all over it.

I have a really nice Geissman 250w HQI pendant sitting in a box somewhere - it'll probably never get used again.

 

[Ippyroy]

Can you substantiate such a claim?

T5s will be around for many years still, too widely in use to easily just phase out.



Problem with MH isn't lack of "quality" of light; they excel at providing plenty of light in proper spectrum. Eventually, people will run into problems with sourcing parts/bulbs.




They don't need to last longer - like iPhones, the next gen is around the corner

I didn't mean that the quality was in decline, but the usage was in decline. Ballasts and the bulbs are steadily becoming harder to source.
While it is true that lots of people have to have the latest and greatest, there is also always someone willing and able to buy the older versions. iPhone 8s are still for sale. I see a lot of G3 Radions for sale and they are not available for long.
Europe is trying to ban T5 bulbs, and the manufacturers are fighting it, I have worked in the tourist industry for a couple of decades. Travelers are demanding for hotels to go green. One of the quicker and cheaper ways of doing this is by replacing all fluorescent bulbs with LEDS. You can do this by changing the ballast or by purchasing the more expensive LED T5 bulb with the convertor built in. I did this last year in a hotel. We replaced 50 T5 lights. Our light bill was cut by 30% on the year. That makes LEDs much cheaper. Power only costs 9.3 cents a KwH for businesses here.

 

[naterealbig]

I didn't mean that the quality was in decline, but the usage was in decline. Ballasts and the bulbs are steadily becoming harder to source.
While it is true that lots of people have to have the latest and greatest, there is also always someone willing and able to buy the older versions. iPhone 8s are still for sale. I see a lot of G3 Radions for sale and they are not available for long.
Europe is trying to ban T5 bulbs, and the manufacturers are fighting it, I have worked in the tourist industry for a couple of decades. Travelers are demanding for hotels to go green. One of the quicker and cheaper ways of doing this is by replacing all fluorescent bulbs with LEDS. You can do this by changing the ballast or by purchasing the more expensive LED T5 bulb with the convertor built in. I did this last year in a hotel. We replaced 50 T5 lights. Our light bill was cut by 30% on the year. That makes LEDs much cheaper. Power only costs 9.3 cents a KwH for businesses here.

One of the nice things here if you take the time to read the fine-print, is that "specialty" bulbs are not included in this 'legislation'.

Cheers

 

[xtian]

People upgrade LEDs because the new fixtures are better - not because the old ones are worn out. They'er still rapidly improving. There are plenty of AI Sols and such out there growing corals - and older LEDs are a huge bargain - my $200 G3 XR30 grows corals just fine.


People keep MH and T5 fixtures because they've been static for 15 years. If someone came out with a new fixture that had 20% better output one 20% less energy, you guys would be all over it.

I have a really nice Geissman 250w HQI pendant sitting in a box somewhere - it'll probably never get used again.

Idk the numbers but reef brite supposedly did that with their MH fixtures/ballast. I still haven't seen many jump on that though..

 

[josephxsxn]

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?
Nope

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?
Nope. Thought about it for a coral/invert QT though.

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?
Seems like when I started people were still touchy about LEDs. I went the LED route because my LFS sold Chinese BlackBoxes which grew my first corals. Afterwards I went Ecotech Radions.

 

[Ippyroy]

One of the nice things here if you take the time to read the fine-print, is that "specialty" bulbs are not included in this 'legislation'.

Cheers

It is just a matter of time before they are either banned or the companies stop producing them. Beer companies have stopped making 3.2 beer for Utah because they are the last state require the lower ABV. It is no longer cost affective. T5s will be around for at least a decade I'm sure. But 10 years is not a long time. I personally have T5s and I love them. But they will be gone sooner than later. I wish the LED T5s would grow corals. Less electricity and longer lasting bulb. That is the future IMHO.

 

[musicreef]

Starting around 1999/2000, I ran a MH(2x175w) / (2x110w)VHO fixture on my 75gal. reef tank. I had previously used florescent tubes and then power compacts. I decided to switch to MH after going on vacation to Key west, Florida and taking a boat ride to the reefs on a glass bottom boat.
At the time I kept an LPS/Softy tank and a clam which I had for several years with great growth and color
My tank sat empty for 15 years before I came back into the hobby last year. I started it up with the MH/VHO lights but switched to 2 Kessil a360x/Aquatic life hybrid during the cycling process. I've been retired now for a couple of years and thought I should probably watch my spending (hasn't happened) since the energy use of the lights with the chiller is a lot more for me here in NYC.
To me the look of the of the LED/T5's is nice but still prefer the MH/VHO look.
I still have the MH fixture, which is still in very good shape but the VHO bulbs are hard to find, perhaps someone here knows where to go have them retrofit to T5.

 

[X-37B]

People upgrade LEDs because the new fixtures are better - not because the old ones are worn out. They'er still rapidly improving. There are plenty of AI Sols and such out there growing corals - and older LEDs are a huge bargain - my $200 G3 XR30 grows corals just fine.


People keep MH and T5 fixtures because they've been static for 15 years. If someone came out with a new fixture that had 20% better output one 20% less energy, you guys would be all over it.

I have a really nice Geissman 250w HQI pendant sitting in a box somewhere - it'll probably never get used again.

You guys, lol.
I just picked up 2 used xr30 gen 4's this weekend to use on my next upgrade along side MH's.
Great price over the new ones.
My question was any studys on par and output from older leds as opposed to they grow corals fine.
If any have been done I would like to read them for a better understanding of how long they actually last.

 

[92Miata]

You guys, lol.
I just picked up 2 used xr30 gen 4's this weekend to use on my next upgrade along side MH's.
Great price over the new ones.
My question was any studys on par and output from older leds as opposed to they grow corals fine.
If any have been done I would like to read them for a better understanding of how long they actually last.

The great thing about LEDs is the vast majority of reef fixtures use pretty standard LEDs from CREE or other major manufacturers - who produce copious amounts of documentation about their products. (as opposed to say MH, where you're using small run specialty bulbs that have basically no data)

Here's data on one specific CREE led line:

https://www.cree.com/led-components/media/documents/XLamp_lumen_maintenance.pdf

So unless these fixtures have completely inadequate cooling (looking at you cheaper black boxes) you run 10 hours a day, you're at 95% at 3 years. 85% at about 7-8 years.

Most of us are running significantly less than 100% - so losing a couple percent of output isn't a big deal.

 

[Steve Erekson]

You'll have to pry my T5s out of my cold, dead, wet, salty hands.

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?

Halide no, T5 several times

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

Yes I have a 20g tank that runs 4x24w T5 with a Reefbrite 50/50 bolted to it so the T5s are doing most of the work.

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

I remember when people were just starting to use 1w LEDs before the 3w chips really became available and it was a highly contentious topic. By the time the AI Sol hit the market and people were working with that or the DIY White/Blue/Royal Blue fixtures you started seeing more and more converts.