These lights are done for good....or are they?

[stephj03]

I have used it all.
These days energy consumption is a big issue for me as I'm limited to 16 Amps in the garage - for soon about 40+ tanks! So LED is pretty much my only option.

Whether metal halides and T5s go away for good is not so much a question of what is used in the hobby but rather up to the general demand. And there it looks pretty dire for metal halides and T5s LEDs are taking over everywhere.
Sooner rather than later it will be hard to get anything that isn't LED.

I would agree with this. LED is such an appealing option for those with smaller tanks or without central air or growing more than acropora that for most of the hobby MH is a pretty hard sell.

Hamilton and Reefbrite will be the specialty supplier to a subset of big tank acropora hobbyists but won't ever give Ecotech a run for their money.

 

[Dr. Jim]

I have used halides for 25 years and plan to use them on my next build, which will be a huge system, when I move. I do worry that they may phase out in the next 10 years or so.
I have used all combinations of T5's, halides and LED's.....but keep going back to halides.

SPS Guy

 

[Jeffcb]

I'm surprised I never got electrocuted with T4 end caps 1 inch above the water. Had 6 just laying there lol. Couldn't afford T5.

 

[AQUANATURE]

I have 12 long Aquarium thats both 2.5ft deep and wide and use only T5, I have 2ft tubes that spread across the whole length of the Aquarium, so 4 banks of 16 tubes, 64 tubes in total at approximately 1200 watt of lighting seems to work well.

I use 32 tubes all day a combination of 20 ATI Actinic blues and 12 whites 6400k. For 3 hours of the day midday to 3pm the other 32 come on which is a combination of white 6400k and purple.

Do plan on adding more Actinic Blues

 

[Thaxxx]

Why do you think MH lights aren't made in china and LEDs are?

Oh I'm sure they are made in China.
But they don't cost nearly as much should you have to replace one compared to LED.
I don't see t5's going anywhere for awhile. Lots of reefers supplement their LEDs with them. Even the newer LED fixtures. I can't see paying $900 for a LED light and it needing more lights for them not to throw shadows. But that is why a lot choose to use t5/LED hybrids.

 

[Thaxxx]

I have 12 long Aquarium thats both 2.5ft deep and wide and use only T5, I have 2ft tubes that spread across the whole length of the Aquarium, so 4 banks of 16 tubes, 64 tubes in total at approximately 1200 watt of lighting seems to work well.

I use 32 tubes all day a combination of 20 ATI Actinic blues and 12 whites 6400k. For 3 hours of the day midday to 3pm the other 32 come on which is a combination of white 6400k and purple.

Do plan on adding more Actinic Blues

 

[alonsooro]

All the old stuff helped to pioneer modern reefing and I am hay to have been a part of it. But like the computers of old I don’t want a Commodore 64 anymore. Great memories but they pale in comparison to the memories we are making now.

This last sentence says it all. Great example

 

[AquaNerd]

There are always going to be people that use all three methods...I don't think metal halides or T5s will ever completely go away due to the fact that they are proven methods of lighting. That being said, there are FAR fewer people using halides now then there used to be. T5 popularity seems to be picking back up, with hybrid LED fixtures.

All 3 technologies will eventually go away. It may be years or decades but it will happen. Maybe around the same time future generations are driving George Jetson cars.

 

[Doctorgori]

I’m from the MH/ VHO era. 5500K GE 175’s and actinics ...hard to beat
Sure :”white light matters” but the heck with that heat
also I got a DIY T5 hybrid as no cheaper way to spread light but those reefbrights got me rethinkingT5s

 

[robert teseo]

t-5's as long as there made!

 

[JohnnyBlowfish]

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?

Halide and Halide/T5 combos. My only issue with halides was heat. Living in AZ I struggled to keep temps down at times.

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

No, my current build will be my first LED lit tank.

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

So many arguments on the forums. "Corals aren't going to grow", "they are going to turn brown", "all you will grow is algae". Oh, the good ole days.

 

[reeffreak911]

Could it be that very good, very productive aquarium lighting types are done for good or were they done a long time ago?

Yep I'm talking about Metal Halide Lighting and T5 Lighting. LED has firmly taken it's foothold and most of the share in the reef aquarium lighting market. But what about for you? Are you still hanging on to your favorite lights that seem to be going the way of the dinosaur?

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

I've been in this hobby long enough to remember when LED first hit the market as well all the naysayers who said that they wouldn't work!

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

@Julian Sprung still has 2 400-watt 14K metal halides on his tank and running them for 12 hours per day

I've always used halides and a couple of people switched to halides after seeing how happy and long my torches get i also have a led strip to view the tank at night

 

[ca1ore]

We're 20 years into LEDs as viable primary reef lights. Literally decades. There are literally thousands of people on this forum running previous-gen LEDs.

What, specifically, do you want for evidence?

Wonder how many run them to the end of the useful life though. Although I lived with the aforementioned DuplaSun for 20 years, I have been something of a switcher with LED. Ran the RB photons for a few years before upgrading to radions and Kessil. Haven’t had those long enough to know how long they’ll last .... though have had a few Kessil fail at about the 3 year mark. I do think it’s a fair observation that most folks upgrade their lights before they have a chance to wear out.

 

[fnlyreefready]

There are always going to be people that use all three methods...I don't think metal halides or T5s will ever completely go away due to the fact that they are proven methods of lighting. That being said, there are FAR fewer people using halides now then there used to be. T5 popularity seems to be picking back up, with hybrid LED fixtures.

I picked up a quad bulb t5 fixture for 20 bucks. So hell yea IM going to use them. They are proven and I get amazing growth. I just wish I could dim them.

 

[naterealbig]

I'm not looking for general spectrum data.

I'm looking for the equivalent of what Thaxxx asked for for LEDS - long term MTBF and spectrum shift data for these specific bulbs - studied in reef conditions, with proper data logging, for thousands of samples of each bulb. Similar spectrum shift data over the lifetime of a MH ballast.

Aside from the "reef conditions" - this is something we have with LEDs - we have literally billions+ of hours of spectral and luminosity data because these specific emitters are being used in everything from household bulbs to flashlights to spotlights to car lights to street lights and everything in between. The amount of data we have on modern LEDS is absurd.

And because they're being used as base components - the data is basically directly transferable.

This is not something we have with MH - we largely only have snapshot data. Sanjay's work is great (and honestly,plenty) - but we have significantly more data for LEDs, and it doesn't seem to satisfy what Thaxxx seems to be asking for.

Which is why I asked what specifically he was asking for to prove to him that LED fixtures work, and don't have to be replaced all the time.

I see. I would be inclined to argue that we have this data available for MH too - after all, it was used for decades for many of the same applications that LED's are replacing now. The "reef condition" setting however, will be the data-gathering challenge for both lighting strategies that cannot be ignored.

Even with horticulture/agriculture applications, the marked incongruencies between them and reefing cannot be overlooked. Now that we have PAR 'covered', spectrum (and furthermore, blending, with respect to LED) is perhaps, the single-most important aspect of lighting. We simply cannot apply much info from either method, from outside the reef hobby to within.

Just as definite as the idea that LED will eventually completely take over, is the idea that the MH bulbs available now are plug and play, and greatly increase the chances of success (especially early-on in the hobby). We also know based on studies (and decades of empirical data), that we don't need to understand spectrum and PAR shifts over time when it comes to MH. Replace the bulbs once per year, and all is good.

I do understand the call for long-term data on reef-focused LED emitters; after-all, LED lifespan is one of it's biggest selling points - and is necessary when considering the relatively high start-up cost. It has also been a pain point for some LED types (UV) and companies (Orphek). While the initial and running costs of halides are absolutely clear, long-term data on LED longevity is still lacking. This is likely not as big a concern for those with limitless disposable income. It is a big deal for those that are completely committed for the 50,000 hours, and have based that commitment on cost analyses which assume the LED's will last that long.

 

[josh515025]

Only been in the hobby a year, but I don’t think I’ll ever try halides/t5s if I can get the job done with LEDs. App programming and the modern/sleek/clean look of LEDs are a must for me.

 

[X-37B]

I see. I would be inclined to argue that we have this data available for MH too - after all, it was used for decades for many of the same applications that LED's are replacing now. The "reef condition" setting however, will be the data-gathering challenge for both lighting strategies that cannot be ignored.

Even with horticulture/agriculture applications, the marked incongruencies between them and reefing cannot be overlooked. Now that we have PAR 'covered', spectrum (and furthermore, blending, with respect to LED) is perhaps, the single-most important aspect of lighting. We simply cannot apply much info from either method, from outside the reef hobby to within.

Just as definite as the idea that LED will eventually completely take over, is the idea that the MH bulbs available now are plug and play, and greatly increase the chances of success (especially early-on in the hobby). We also know based on studies (and decades of empirical data), that we don't need to understand spectrum and PAR shifts over time when it comes to MH. Replace the bulbs once per year, and all is good.

I do understand the call for long-term data on reef-focused LED emitters; after-all, LED lifespan is one of it's biggest selling points - and is necessary when considering the relatively high start-up cost. It has also been a pain point for some LED types (UV) and companies (Orphek). While the initial and running costs of halides are absolutely clear, long-term data on LED longevity is still lacking. This is likely not as big a concern for those with limitless disposable income. It is a big deal for those that are completely committed for the 50,000 hours, and have based that commitment on cost analyses which assume the LED's will last that long.

Well said indeed.
It would be nice to see spectrum and par output on some of the long running leds.
This is what I was wondering about in my previous posts.
With halides I get a brand new light every year for $50, at least the ones I run.
I would still be interested in spectrum and par levels, after say 2,3,4,5 years out.

 

[Aheinz]

While I personally haven't ran anything other than led, on my 20 gallon nano (now defunct due to move) and will start my waterbox frag 85.3 with led only I am open to going into a hybrid setup with t5 lighting, and while t5 and MH are not as popular now I do think they will continue to be available as they are not always as highly priced as led tech, and there are those who prefer the t5 or MH lighting they see and have.

 

[naterealbig]

And in a feeble (4th attempt) to keep the thread on track....

1. Have you ever used Metal Halide and T5 Lighting on a reef tank?
Yessir.

2. Do you currently have a tank running MH or T5 lights?

Yessir. Both.

3. Do you remember the discussion about LED and about how there wasn't proof that they would work?

Yes, and at the time that argument was justified. LED's have come a long way, but still are not at the point I would consider them to replace a halide. I love the controllability and colors you can get from LED (high-end, anyway), but when it comes to easy, thoughtless, affordable, lighting muscle - there is only one choice for me.

FYI - planning a halide w/ LED bar supplements. MH for the heavy lifting, and LED so I can see the trick colors in the morning/night.

 

[jda]

There is a AA article on longevity of a 14k Phoenix - output, not spectrum. They lose most of their output in the first few months and then level off after that. This led a lot of people to use them for 2 years - I have before and it was no problem. When I changed the bulbs after two years, I did not acclimate anything and nothing seemed to care.

One of the locals takes my one-year-old MH bulbs and uses them for another year over his reef. He has no complaints. I am not familiar with his tank enough to have an opinion