Thinking DIY Dose Unit and looking for good short time interval timers.

[fragmatic]

I have decided to purchase 5 Precision SC072A Dosing Pump replacement head assemblies and build my own 5 station doser.

http://www.aquacave.com/Replacement-Pump-Head-Assembly-for-Precision-SC072A-Dosing-Pump-P3862.aspx

I have it figured out down to finding the interval timers. I found one that will work perfectly but they only sell them at a 100 min qty. That kind of defeats the purpose. I need 5. My next look up is at AlliedElectronics.com. If I find one I'll share "the where to get".

Does anyone know of a timer outlet that will time down to 1 second? Most units on the consumer shelf only go down to 1 minute.

My intention is to mount the 5 heads and have an interval timer dedicated to each head with a 12 VDC power supply routed to each head via 5 SPDP 12VDC ice cubes. This whole project will be completely programmable per each pump head and cost me just under $300 to build.

The only other way I have figured out is to purchase a Bubble Mangus w/ Expansion for a total of 7 heads at just under $600. See my point? Plus I am a DIYattic.

Bubble Magus Dosing Pump - Bulk Reef Supply

One more question for you dosers; Most alk dosing products tend to settle in the container and need shaking. How do you handle this with your dose machines?

Who knows another reliable way to DIY or afford a 5 station dose system?


EDIT: I heard that. I dose:
>parts 1 & 2
>Kent's iodine supplement
>Brightwell's Trace & Minor Elements supplement, and their Reef Building complex

 

[fragmatic]

yeeeee hawww...

I just found 5 each of the interval timer in the below link in my grab bag! This, boys and girls, means I can build this dosing unit for the price of the replacement pump heads (if I can find a power supply in my grab bag and plus the cost of a couple of simple timers). This way will not require any relays.

Artisan Controls - 4300A-3-1 - Sensors, Switches & Relays - Time Delay Relays (TDR) - Allied Electronics

It means I can dose off any old timer. It means I will supply power to all five of these Artisan interval timers from the timer, the timer stays on for a couple of minutes. Each Artisan will drive a different dose head and will turn off at the quantity of seconds I set it to with a pot knob. That means absolute control from .1 to 30 seconds. (This version of Artisan turns on when power is supplied then turns off at the determined length of time. This happens every time power is supplied.) However I will use two timers so I can have the part 1 & 2 dose at different times.

I think I saw a digital socket with two sockets which could be programmed to come on separately several times a day. If so that would be so cool. I could break down my dosing.

I will use mechanical timers so if I am gone and there is a power failure it will continue to run when power comes on and not wait for a clock reset (easier on house setters / so smarter for me).

This build is on. Should I post a build thread? Is anyone interested in how this goes?

 

[mcarroll]

Very cool, if a bit over my head on the electrical side. Just for reference, here.

Aside from the joy of DIY, what's the advantage of your plan with the interval timers, etc vs hooking those pump heads up to a cheap (e.g.) ReefKeeper Lite for $120 and getting down-to-the-second timing along with the other associated general purpose bells and whistles? (Especially temperature sensing and control!)

Also, (honest question) wouldn't a dimmer (same as a pot?) give you a similar control over dosing rate but be simpler and cheaper to implement? (Of course a dimmer with an interval timer would be the ultimate....but also overkill for most applications.)

On another front, not sure what chemical you're dosing for alkalinity but precipitation or settling should not be occurring. Baking soda or baked baking soda are the two main things used and neither should have solubility issues unless "you're doing it wrong". Maybe you're thinking of kalkwasser (limewater)? If so, I'd use a reactor like the Tunze 5074 connected to your ATO system and not use a doser at all. (And I do generally recommend kalk if you have stony corals and a significant dosing level.) Check out the Kalk sticky in the Chemistry forum if kalk is on your radar.

Just to ask, are you sure you need to automate dosing for all that stuff? 2-part is the only thing on your list I'd classify as "necessary". (can != should)

Definitely interested to see how you do the wiring and mounting....I mounted mine in old brightwell containers. LOL

-Matt

 

[fragmatic]

Matt,

Excellent questions:

First the dimmer. Yes is same as a pot. A dimmer will not time a dose pump. These interval timers have a place for a pot that "programs" them to turn off at a set time between .1 and 30 seconds. This means when the clock motor timer turns them on and stays on for a couple of minutes, each interval timer will start its pump and stop pumping at the finely adjust length of time.

"but over kill for most applications" No... ummmh... These Artisan interval timers are professional modular "bricks" intended to go into highly critical electronic circuits in automation lines and such, and require the pot as a part of the circuit (they will not work without them). They are specifically designed to do extremely accurate intervals of time without the possibility of circuit or program failure.

With the clock motor driven (old style) timers if I lose power, no problem, dosing will still be done less the time power was off without having to re-set a digital clock. The dosing may be out of sync from when it was intended but the sequence gets done. This is good for those times away from home for a month or so.

Can I should I.. shrugg.. it is what my tank is getting.. so is what I am thinking to dose.

Advantage of my interval timers over the ReefKeeper Lite. I have the interval timers (no $$ out of pocket means more other goodies), they are solid state and there is no program to bomb in a power failure. They are set with a pot and can be adjusted with that knob. This is a fail safe method, unless/until one of the pump tubes fractures and needs replaced.


This whole project including the 5 dose pumps is going to cost me about $225.

EDIT: Thanx man, just checked out the link you gave me. This means this project will cost me about, ummh, poking at my calculator, should come in under $165. That is way cool.

 

[fragmatic]

How did you find that on E-bay.. I tried with all my e-bay gadgets (methods) and didn't come up with one. Good job!

After shipping you saved me about $80 to $90.

Question, will a ReefKeeperLite actually run a bare bones dose pump like the link you posted? If so, you have a very valid point, I didn't think they would. But I have no idea. If so this could justify a fancier ReefKeeper.

Guess I need to do a hard look at the ReefKeeper series, first! thanx ..... (again)

BTW, my temperature control is not a problem. I use an STC-1000 on both my reef system and my change water system. (Another advantage to having been a machine design engineer in my other life). An STC-1000 cost a whopping $25. and is very accurate and reliable.

 

[mcarroll]

Well, the Reefkeeper only has 120VAC outlets, and you'll probably need 1 amp of power at 12V so there will be a few AC/DC adapters involved ($5 each or so?), but yes it makes a really good doser controller IME. I'm sure bugs are possible (most aquarium controllers are verifiably buggy or odd in lots of ways), but so far I haven't experienced any showstoppers in my use.

As far as the analog options I don't think I explained what I meant clearly. I haven't tested this, but I thought that if you applied a pot rated for the correct amps and volts to the pump motor's incoming DC current (often 12v, 1A) that you could have a cheapie speed controller for the pump motor - so not only use a pot for on/off timing, but also for controlling the dosing rate while running. Combine with the analog appliance timers and you have a way-cool neanderthal dosing system with a lot of control as well as precision. Thoughts? (At the risk of being a DIY buzz-kill: here)

On temperature control, it's not just control of heaters as such, but also being able to take other actions based on temperature. Even if you didn't change control of heat, it becomes possible to rig up fans that come on at certain temperatures, or about anything else depending on that input of temperature. You could even run your controller through the Reefkeeper and have the RK as a secondary safety with a rule to cut off the heat if xºF is detected. Or even have a backup heater on the RK that only comes on if there's a "low temp alert". Just some ideas and it may or may not be useful enough in you case, but prolly worth considering. (Certainly other makes of controller could also be considered if you can find a similar price point or maybe find a used one for sale...I'm just lacking in familiarity with other that Reefkeepers.)

One other thought: Generally these little doser motors are rated for about 1 year. Wearable replaceable parts seem to be a common thread among peristaltic pumps. I wouldn't necessarily suggest anything else though unless you're willing to spring for a Reef Filler (or a few)....prolly the only other pump I can think of that would be acceptable that's more durable. Based on my limited experience, if you run 5 of these dosers I bet you'll have to replace at least one motor (or motor+head combo) at about 1 year's time. It's possible you'll have better or worse luck than that, of course....just don't expect them to last forever.

-Matt

 

[fragmatic]

I'm off and running in a few minutes for the day.

I looked at your link for a box with a pot and a doser. I isn't a good idea to use a pot as a current limiter. A pot should be used as a voltage control to a circuit that then controls the current as "instructed". Using a pot to control a motor is using it as a voltage / current control and these motors are rated at 1 amp of current. 2nd in that subject, this method would be running the dose pump 24/7 or similar, I assume, and they have a short life. They are intended to come on and run a few seconds at a time and be in the off state most of their life, thus extension of useful time line. Though in this case one "could" slow the motor down with a pot but that pot needs to be a rheostat (wire wound similar to those we used as slot car speed controls). Common pots (volume controls) are only a carbon resistor with a sliding tap and are not intended to carry much current.

My Reef Fusion part 2 says shake well before using. My Liquid Reef & Replenish say shake before using. My Kent product says shake before using. Any thoughts? Do your part 1 or 2 say shake before using? At this time my only hesitation to pulling the trigger is the "shake before using" thing.

Keep it coming, I need this kind of chatter to keep my thinking in perspective.

-randy-

 

[ebushrow]

This is an awesome idea...tagging along

 

[fragmatic]

While you tag, ideas and questions are welcome. Sometimes the best ideas come from fresh informed minds and from totally clueless minds, LOL, or in between.

My next thought is if some reefers who auto dose thin the dose products by adding RODI so they can double or triple the dose quantity for accuracy. One of my products only gets a 1.5 ml per day. If I add two parts RODI per one part product I can then dose 4.4 ml and spread it out over three daily doses. Comments?

 

[fragmatic]

I ordered the dose pump heads. All five cost me a total of $79.60 delivered.

The 24 VDC open frame power supply to operate the five 4300 series interval pucks is $48.06
15 one meg multi turn cermit trimmer pots (are some spares) are costing me $1.42 each for a total of $21.30
5 each 24VDC DPDT relays are costing me $2.54 each for a total of $12.70
5 each 120VAC 4PDT relays are costing me $5.95 each for a total of $29.70
5 each of a clock work timer cost me $3.97 each for a total of $19.85.
The 12 VDC power supply is on my desk and was free (value ???)
The 5 Artisan 4300A-3-1 interval timer pucks are on my desk and are free left overs form a design job I did several years ago. (value $170)
Enclosure is going to be a "not being used" key lock box (for keys).

Total out of pocket expense will be just under $220 for a five head dose system that will dose each pump head independent of the others for .1 to 30 seconds per dose.
If you build one you will have to add in the $170 for the Artisan pucks, I'm betting you have a 1 amp 12VDC power supply from an old printer, lap top, or kid ride toy charger. You may buy or make a enclosure..
This means you can build one for mighty close to $390, which is closer to the almost $600 to buy one that is fully programmable. But you wouldn't be able to say you built it. And it is still $200.00'ish less expensive.

I'll post pictures, a wiring diagram, and complete parts list in a few days when everything has arrived and is going together.

 

[ReeferAl]

I have used Altronix delay timer boards for several aquarium related projects. Here is a link to 1 I've used: ALTRONIX PROGRAMMABLE TIMERS - Altronix, 6062, Multi-Function Timer - 12VDC or 24VDC operation They have some other models with slightly different features as well.

 

[fragmatic]

I have used Altronix delay timer boards for several aquarium related projects. Here is a link to 1 I've used: ALTRONIX PROGRAMMABLE TIMERS - Altronix, 6062, Multi-Function Timer - 12VDC or 24VDC operation They have some other models with slightly different features as well.

Nice! Great in put... really great input!!

If I could get a data sheet on these they could make this DIY far more affordable to others. In my case I had the Artisan's already. I tried the link and there wasn't enough information. Could you tell me how you used it and how adjustable it was? I could work this in and make this a serious option for DIY types who need a doser set-up.

I'm about to Google the circuit to see what I can find.

Edit: I was able to download the data sheet of the 6062 and it looks like it would work. In this case it would eliminate the 24 VDC powersupply, 5 relays, and reduce the interval timer cost down to the cost of the 6062. That is enough to make this a no brainer to build. I'm still waiting on my dose pumps to get here from China. When they do I'll do the build.

 

[ReeferAl]

Here's another timer that looks interesting but I haven't used. Relay Pros: Reactor Relay 1-Channel 5-Amp SPDT + 8-Channel 8-Bit A/D with USB Interface
It looks like it could control up to 8 dosing pumps which could be cost competitive over multiple relays. I have a feeder I built for frozen (thawed) food that requires 3 sequential timing events. I currently use 3 of the Altronix relays but with this I could have used 1 and had a cleaner layout, albeit a bit more expensive.

 

[fragmatic]

.. WELL... I am still waiting on parts. I may of learned my lesson from ordering out of Hong Kong. The HK Post's tracking is the most accurate there is, it can't be wrong, it tells me my packages are "in transit" and "have left Hong Kong". Thanx so much for that valuable information, HK Post!

 

[fragmatic]

The step by step has started look for the 5 station doser build.

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/do-yourself-diy/109873-do-yourself-5-station-doser-build.html