Thinking of buying a prequarentined Fish

[ZipAdeeZoa]

Hello everyone!

I’ve been on the hunt for a Plectranthias inermis for a while now and I’ve finally found one! The only issue is that the place that has it prequarantines all their fish which isn’t really a bad thing. Their website says they treat their fish for 3 weeks in coppersafe.

I do have a quarrntine set up and running and I was planning on Qting anyway but my question is what issues could survive 3 weeks of coppersafe that I would have to keep an eye out for?

The company seems to be quite reputable but this would be my first saltwater fish and I’m a little paraniod.

Thanks in advance!

Just realized I spelt quarantine wrong, I tried to edit it but I guess you can’t change the title after you post... Sorry

 

[EmdeReef]

A number of diseases won’t be affected by copper but most common ones would be flukes, intestinal worms/parasites and bacterial infections.

You’re not being paranoid it’s a good practice to QT even if you just observe for a couple weeks or longer.

 

[ZipAdeeZoa]

A number of diseases won’t be affected by copper but most common ones would be flukes, intestinal worms/parasites and bacterial infections.

You’re not being paranoid it’s a good practice to QT even if you just observe for a couple weeks or longer.

I had no idea Copper didn’t effect so many things, I’m really glad I asked!

So I should look for flukes (probably do a freshwater dip), white stringy poop, cloudy eyes and patches of discoloration- anything else?

Also what meds would I need to get to keep on hand? Keeping in mind I’m in Canada so E.M, general cure and I believe one other are illegal here without a prescription from a vet. I understand why but it still sucks

 

[ngoodermuth]

Brook and Uronema are also not treated by copper... and won’t be able to be treated in a display tank.

If you are going to skip QT... I’d highly suggest a fw dip followed by a bath in either ruby reef rally or formalin. But, this is still not going to be 100% fail-safe.

Flukes and intestinal parasites can be treated in tank, so those two^ would be my biggest concern.

Also, suppressed velvet... do they keep the fish in true therapeutic levels for 3 weeks? What do they do then, are fish transferred straight to unmedicated holding tanks without lowering the copper? Are the copper levels monitored closely, how do they handle waterchanges, acclimating new fish to the system, etc...?

I personally don’t trust any QT but my own.

 

[ZipAdeeZoa]

Brook and Uronema are also not treated by copper... and won’t be able to be treated in a display tank.

If you are going to skip QT... I’d highly suggest a fw dip followed by a bath in either ruby reef rally or formalin.

Flukes and intestinal parasites can be treated in tank, so those two^ would be my biggest concern.

Also, suppressed velvet... do they keep the fish in true therapeutic levels for 3 weeks? What do they do then, are fish transferred straight to unmedicated holding tanks without lowering the copper? Are the copper levels monitored closely, how do they handle waterchanges, acclimating new fish to the system, etc...?

I personally don’t trust any QT but my own.

All good questions!

I’m not planning on skipping qt, although I am a little surprised that It seems copper really doesn’t do nearly as much as I thought it did. In fact if the main thing it does is suppress the fishes immune system it seems like that would allow everything listed (so far everything that could go wrong other than ich) a better chance to take a hold of the fish.

I don’t know about they’re water change schedule but heres my understanding of how the operation works.

Once you pay for the fish they pick it up from whole saler and start the 3 weeks in coppersafe (for most fish, they do more sensitive ones in Choloroquine phosphate) and the fish are shipped within a week of completing the quarantine.

Most of the less expensive fish (like the plectranthias) are done at the customers risk which means if they die in the process thats the end of that and you get nothing+ your out the price the fish.

Once you get the fish they are guaranteed for 2 weeks

For the medium- highly expensive fish they are done at his risk. After reading through the reviews it appears that the handful of negatives are in association with people not understanding their terms and conditions or being frustrated by them (although I must say they are more clear than many other places I’ve looked into about it.

I realize this leaves a lot of your questions unanswered and I might ask them all before ordering but if I’m going to quarantine for a full 3 weeks irregardless would there much of a point?

Also does anyone know if formalin and or ruby reef rally are still legal in Canada?

 

[ngoodermuth]

Copper does treat velvet, which is a pretty big one. The reason I ask about the level of copper the supplier uses... many fish won’t tolerate being dropped straight into therapeutic copper, which is why we generally ramp it up over several days.

Some suppliers, rather than have to worry about ramping up each individual batch of fish, will just run sub-therapeutic copper in the entire system. And while they can say they “treat with copper” it’s actually only enough to suppress/mask symptoms, not actually eliminate the parasites. Not saying that’s what this supplier is doing, but just something to keep in mind.

Also, if water changes are done through an automated system (like most large holding systems are) then the water could be pumped in first and copper added to the system afterwards... which would cause a drop in the copper level, even if temporarily, which might allow parasites a window of opportunity to re-attach to the fish.

Again, not saying this is what they do... just nuances that make me more apt to trust my own processes over a large retail operation. Cross-contamination is another one... do they have separate tools for each holding system/tank and are they SURE that the employees won’t use them between systems?

You can ask them, you might get a straight answer... they are probably sincerely trying to make their offerings less risky. Bad business when your fish are constantly wiping out people’s tanks - no one would buy from them.

But, doesn’t replace personal QT IMO

 

[4FordFamily]

Brook and Uronema are also not treated by copper... and won’t be able to be treated in a display tank.

If you are going to skip QT... I’d highly suggest a fw dip followed by a bath in either ruby reef rally or formalin. But, this is still not going to be 100% fail-safe.

Flukes and intestinal parasites can be treated in tank, so those two^ would be my biggest concern.

Also, suppressed velvet... do they keep the fish in true therapeutic levels for 3 weeks? What do they do then, are fish transferred straight to unmedicated holding tanks without lowering the copper? Are the copper levels monitored closely, how do they handle waterchanges, acclimating new fish to the system, etc...?

I personally don’t trust any QT but my own.

I agree. I don't trust anyone but Humblefish Aquatics to quarantine properly, or myself/@HotRocks.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/author/4fordfamily.51404/

This article is about how difficult it is to properly QT as an LFS, and it doesn't take in to account how much more common uronema is now, for example. 3 weeks isn't enough unless they're transported to a new sterile QT anyway.

Also we've recently discovered that at least one strain of velvet can survive 1.75PPM copper. So now it needs to be 2.0 PPM copper.

 

[ZipAdeeZoa]

Copper does treat velvet, which is a pretty big one. The reason I ask about the level of copper the supplier uses... many fish won’t tolerate being dropped straight into therapeutic copper, which is why we generally ramp it up over several days.

Some suppliers, rather than have to worry about ramping up each individual batch of fish, will just run sub-therapeutic copper in the entire system. And while they can say they “treat with copper” it’s actually only enough to suppress/mask symptoms, not actually eliminate the parasites. Not saying that’s what this supplier is doing, but just something to keep in mind.

Also, if water changes are done through an automated system (like most large holding systems are) then the water could be pumped in first and copper added to the system afterwards... which would cause a drop in the copper level, even if temporarily, which might allow parasites a window of opportunity to re-attach to the fish.

Again, not saying this is what they do... just nuances that make me more apt to trust my own processes over a large retail operation. Cross-contamination is another one... do they have separate tools for each holding system/tank and are they SURE that the employees won’t use them between systems?

You can ask them, you might get a straight answer... they are probably sincerely trying to make their offerings less risky. Bad business when your fish are constantly wiping out people’s tanks - no one would buy from them.

But, doesn’t replace personal QT IMO

I agree. I don't trust anyone but Humblefish Aquatics to quarantine properly, or myself/@HotRocks.

https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/author/4fordfamily.51404/

This article is about how difficult it is to properly QT as an LFS, and it doesn't take in to account how much more common uronema is now, for example. 3 weeks isn't enough unless they're transported to a new sterile QT anyway.

Also we've recently discovered that at least one strain of velvet can survive 1.75PPM copper. So now it needs to be 2.0 PPM copper.

I feel like I should have titled this differently- my bad

I am not looking to put blind trust in someone elses Qt process (even if I call them and they are doing everything perfectly- I’m still planning on doing my own 3 weeks of observation and reset the clock every time I have to treat an issue).

I decided to check the reviews again and its actually 5 stars from each of the 22 reviews which seems like a pretty good track record. Again, still going to do my own no matter what they say but I’ll report back here with the details after I call them tomorrow.

In the mean time, does anyone have any tips for a Canadian quarantine medicine cabinet? I believe its just the antibiotics that are now unavailable without a prescription from a vet but I’m also having difficulty finding the actual list.

 

[ngoodermuth]

In the mean time, does anyone have any tips for a Canadian quarantine medicine cabinet? I believe its just the antibiotics that are now unavailable without a prescription from a vet but I’m also having difficulty finding the actual list.

#reefsquad

Any Canadian members that might have a good source, or list of medications that are easily procured? I’ve had several threads lately where availability of medications has been prohibitive so any input here is appreciated