Thinking of starting over. What would YOU do differently?

[Crustaceon]

For me in that situation.... I would go with a thin layer or crushed coral for substrate, absurd amounts of flow in the display and I would dose silicates until I saw a diatom bloom. I think diatom blooms are the future of this hobby every bit as much as cycling a tank. It's the one critter in your sand that'll die out on its own, but not after coating every grain of territory dinos could inhabit and starving them out. Every tank I've owned that had massive flow just seemed to be healthier, grew coralline much faster and I think for that reason, had far less algae and dino issues.

 

[beesnreefs]

For me in that situation.... I would go with a thin layer or crushed coral for substrate, absurd amounts of flow in the display and I would dose silicates until I saw a diatom bloom. I think diatom blooms are the future of this hobby every bit as much as cycling a tank. It's the one critter in your sand that'll die out on its own, but not after coating every grain of territory dinos could inhabit and starving them out. Every tank I've owned that had massive flow just seemed to be healthier, grew coralline much faster and I think for that reason, had far less algae and dino issues.

Thanks for sharing your experience, @Crustaceon. Dosing silicates to induce a diatom bloom has definitely crossed our mind.

We'd prefer to avoid going bare-bottom or even a thin sand layer...we really like the look of a deeper sand bed and have a few sand-sleeping wrasses. With that in mind, can you help me understand what you mean by "massive flow"?

Right now we are running two Sicce SDC 7.0 pumps at about 70%. We also have IceCap 4K gyre pumps at opposite ends of the tank, both running at a peak of about 75%.

 

[Crustaceon]

Thanks for sharing your experience, @Crustaceon. Dosing silicates to induce a diatom bloom has definitely crossed our mind.

We'd prefer to avoid going bare-bottom or even a thin sand layer...we really like the look of a deeper sand bed and have a few sand-sleeping wrasses. With that in mind, can you help me understand what you mean by "massive flow"?

Right now we are running two Sicce SDC 7.0 pumps at about 70%. We also have IceCap 4K gyre pumps at opposite ends of the tank, both running at a peak of about 75%.

I think the deep sand bed will work out fine with a tank of your size. I had similar with my 187g tank, had a central rockscape that allowed the fine sand I was running to continually shift around the tank like sand dunes. It was pretty cool looking but I did have to adjust the dunes every few days because they'd find one little spot with slightly less flow and start building up there. IME, the deep sand bed didn't help with nitrate levels in the least bit, so I recently removed it from my anemone tank, but I totally get having one for wrasses and other sand-dwellers. I also don't believe a shifting deep sand bed is going to cause any problems as long as it's constantly shifting around from the moment it's set up, which would prevent those anaerobic pockets from forming and quirks that come from it. As for recommended flow, I'm thinking 10/15k-ish GPH total flow in the display. Yep, that's a lot but my tangs and even my little sixline wrasse loved it. It sounds like you're in the 5-6k ballpark right now. If the sand is always moving, even the slightest bit, dinos are going to have a really hard time thriving in it.

 

[Ancient Mariner]

I wouldn't start it over. I've done the same thing many a time and it always backfires on me.

Before you tear it down/start over, have you considered letting things run their course? Don't add any new livestock to the tank...don't tinker with anything...don't add new equipment...don't add chemicals....just maintain the necessary components and leave things alone for the next few months and let things balance out on their own. A tank has to go through numerous cycles before it will balance itself out...typically, if you start over you are just resetting the cycles and will (more than likely) have to go through it all over again.

Yes, yes, yes!!!!!

 

[mike550]

@beesnreefs I pretty much did reboot my 120 but part of me still thinks I should have done a complete rip clean. So here are the things I did

• Complete redid my rockscape using new Marco rock and some other dry rock. Once I got the scape the way I liked it, I then glued portions of it together. The “old“ rock from my tank is being cleaned, cycled, and I‘ll use smaller pieces to create coral islands for things like GSP, and clove polyps. I can also let the coral and rocks sit in my QT
• Scraped all the “garbage” off the back wall of my tank
• Vacuumed and sifted my sand several times.
• Ran the tank as fish only for about a month.

What else I would have done if I went to a rip clean

• Reworked my plumbing and add several unions to make maintenance easier
• Cleaned up my sump (beyond just vacuuming)
• Moved the entire tank a few more inches away from the back wall

 

[ReefGeezer]

If you started a large (225g in my case) mixed reef over, what would you do differently?

This hobby can be sooooo frustrating. We try to figure out how things work based on the best information we have and set out to "do everything right". Big tanks are particularly frustrating because you sink some much time, effort, and money into them.

The easy answer to your question is to scrap all of your dead rock, sterilize all of your equipment, and start over with a couple hundred lbs. of live rock. However, that is an expensive proposition. You would also probably lose any remaining fish and corals in the starting over process, which really just sucks.

You are so far down the road now I would not start over but you are in for a battle. I would keep doing the manual removal, start doing regular aggressive water changes and unleash several Sea Hares and Sea Urchins. You may not be able to see nitrate and phosphate when testing, but if you have algae, it is there. If you have a skimmer, you might start carbon dosing to create some competition for the nitrate that will be released as the Sea Hares & Urchins eat the algae. If you could remove the fish to QT and let the tank run fishless for 45-60 days, that would solve your parasite problem and reduce the nitrogen input to the system for a while.

 

[rtparty]

My dream tank also turned into a nightmare and I would change so many things that starting over would be my only option. That will be a long post so I will write it later when I have some time

First thing though for a large tank: fish room! I would NEVER do a large tank again with the equipment under the stand. No fish room? No large tank. It is that cut and dry for me.

 

[Karliefish]

What would I do differently…..
Tackle a Dino outbreak as soon as possible and not let it get out of control. It is truly taking the love and joy of this hobby away from me.

 

[maxfund]

Thanks @blaxsun. I see you posting on here a lot and appreciate your perspective.

I did add a UV 2 weeks ago when the Ich issue started showing. And as much as I LOVE euphyllia...I'm beginning to wonder if torches and I need a break from each other

Why would you take a break from torches?

 

[Reefvision]

I have 210 gal display and endured same issues the op said. Took 3years to get stable. What worked for me eventually was “daily removal” of red cyano and gha “ along with adding pns bacteria. I stopped water changes and used filter sock to collect siphoned gha/cyano. Then changed socks (daily).after aprox 3mos things finally came together and also keeping alk,mag,calcium levels appropriate. Having the best algae tangs (Bristletooth) also helped. Best of luck and keep at it- I would not reboot as it will probably not work.

 

[cpschult]

Look into an algae scrubber or add a massive refugium. I had a 125 gallon that I had a 55 gallon refugium with chaeto in it and I also added an algae reactor because I loved to feed my fish (I also had a massive skimmer and carbon dosed!). You can also add a return pump and put a refugium on any tank, just have it drain back to your sump. It really sounds like you are adding a lot of nutrients without exporting them well. You just need to give the algae a better place to grow than your display.

 

[beesnreefs]

Why would you take a break from torches?

In this new system I just haven't been able to get them to thrive. At one point I had around a dozen torch colonies on my torch island including a Todd's Torch colony that had grown to around a dozen heads. Only 4 remain and one of them is a HG variant colony that was at 10 heads and now has 2 left.

AquaBiomics testing has shown no obvious disease. I've tried just about everything I can think of: cipro, dips, direct feeding, nutrient control, leaving them alone...I will say, I ran 8 days of daily Fauna Marin RTN/STN and haven't had any torch losses since (though a hammer did die in exactly the same way the torches were).

It's heartbreaking watching them just melt away overnight and being powerless to stop it.

At this point, I think I'm going to slowly work to eliminate the remaining SCA and GHA, get my fish past this ich outbreak, and stabilize the system. So all new additions (corals and fish) are on hold until then. Mayyyyyybe once I get things back to good I'll feel confident enough to try torches again.

 

[GarrettT]

100% live rock and longer tank.

 

[beesnreefs]

I have 210 gal display and endured same issues the op said. Took 3years to get stable. What worked for me eventually was “daily removal” of red cyano and gha “ along with adding pns bacteria. I stopped water changes and used filter sock to collect siphoned gha/cyano. Then changed socks (daily).after aprox 3mos things finally came together and also keeping alk,mag,calcium levels appropriate. Having the best algae tangs (Bristletooth) also helped. Best of luck and keep at it- I would not reboot as it will probably not work.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Hearing people have gotten past similar issues in a similar tank gives me hope.

I have also stopped water changes and my wife and I scrub the alage on all rocks twice a week and siphon through a 5 micron filter sock. We also run a ReefMat 1200 and installed a UV about 3 weeks ago. And agreed, the WT Bristletooth tang (and our juvenile orange shoulder) are nice algae eaters. As are the small tuxedo urchin we recently added.

I'm also starting Reef Moonshiner's to get all macro and trace elements lined up and stabilized. I've heard that while that will certainly help the corals, it can also benefit the microbiome that competes with the dinos and GHA.

Not giving up quite yet!!

 

[beesnreefs]

100% live rock and longer tank.

I hear you on the live rock. Seems like so many first-year issues come from the extensive use of non-live media.

When you say longer tank, how much longer in comparison to what you already have? And what makes you want the additional length...more space for fish to swim? More aquascaping options? Something else?

 

[In the sticks]

I would go alittle bigger tank than thinking I need. Also really take my time with the aqua scape

 

[brandon429]

problems I see here

aquabiomic's for sale items are being used in place of Jay's fish disease protocols, the fish losses are easy to correct on next round

Jay has an entire forum dedicated to disease controls, recommend= don't stock wet items from a pet store skipping fallow preps/it risks all your current fish after you do QT on them. in a tank that big/costly/anything added from a pet store goes through a separate fallow observation tank at your home, carefully ran.

alternate: stock no fish for a long time. build up your actual reef, fallow it in the end, then add qt prepped fish, any odds and ends thereafter get passed through your dual home system for fallow. this approach saves you from having to fallow separately hundreds of wet items that will eventually be stocked in a 200+ gallon setup.

no form of fallowing was applied to pet store stock additions: corals, cuc etc, that needs reversed

aquabiomic's for-sale testing cannot help any aspect of this tank or any other tank: it's a new form of testing we can use to see a tiny, tiny portion of the dna in the system and you can't use any aspect of it to ensure being disease-free. it has 0% applicable use for disease tracking or prevention: notice no aspect of aquabiomic's testing is used in Jay's disease forum, stickies, troubleshoots or recommends to any poster.

this new system should be sandbed free for about 2 years to ensure stability, then, if you want sand, add in fully rinsed/prepped sand. delay sandbed addition on the next round. if the tank wasn't so big you could just keep it clean early on but that's a monumental task in a 200+ gallon setup. sand management is a top headache unless you're very lucky and skilled at it, delayed use of sand is ideal considering your opening description.

 

[UtahReefer]

I would still use dry rock but next time I will dark cure it.

 

[Pico bam]

@beesnreefs ever run an icp test?

Things I'm working on doing on my 270 build
-oversized uv sterilizer
-nice large skimmer
-well cycled rock
-adding coral and fish slowly
-cable management
-taking my Time.

 

[beesnreefs]

problems I see here

aquabiomic's for sale items are being used in place of Jay's fish disease protocols, the fish losses are easy to correct on next round

Jay has an entire forum dedicated to disease controls, recommend= don't stock wet items from a pet store skipping fallow preps/it risks all your current fish after you do QT on them. in a tank that big/costly/anything added from a pet store goes through a separate fallow observation tank at your home, carefully ran.

alternate: stock no fish for a long time. build up your actual reef, fallow it in the end, then add qt prepped fish, any odds and ends thereafter get passed through your dual home system for fallow. this approach saves you from having to fallow separately hundreds of wet items that will eventually be stocked in a 200+ gallon setup.

no form of fallowing was applied to pet store stock additions: corals, cuc etc, that needs reversed

aquabiomic's for-sale testing cannot help any aspect of this tank or any other tank: it's a new form of testing we can use to see a tiny, tiny portion of the dna in the system and you can't use any aspect of it to ensure being disease-free. it has 0% applicable use for disease tracking or prevention: notice no aspect of aquabiomic's testing is used in Jay's disease forum, stickies, troubleshoots or recommends to any poster.

this new system should be sandbed free for about 2 years to ensure stability, then, if you want sand, add in fully rinsed/prepped sand. delay sandbed addition on the next round. if the tank wasn't so big you could just keep it clean early on but that's a monumental task in a 200+ gallon setup. sand management is a top headache unless you're very lucky and skilled at it, delayed use of sand is ideal considering your opening description.

Thanks for your perspective. The bolded, in particular, stood out to me. Not sure why I never thought of that but this seems like a good idea. Stocking up all the coral, inverts, etc. and leaving it fallow for the requisite time prior to adding all the fish, pre-QT'd is a smart approach that would likely prevent disease.