Third (and final) fish for my 13.5 Evo

[jfoahs04]

I'm likely to add a 3rd and final fish in the next two weeks or so. Right now I have a Tailspot Blenny and a Davinci Ocellaris (about 1.5 inches long). The tank is the 13.5g EVO, mixed reef (softies, LPS, and a couple of sticks) with a few small hermits, skunk cleaner, and a couple of snails. I'm hoping to get some feedback as I'm genuinely having a hard time deciding. These are my options with (with some pros/cons):

Another clown (leaning toward mocha storm).

• Pros: could potentially pair with the existing clown, great color/pattern, active, hardy.
• Cons: Tank is on the smaller side for a clownfish pair, possibility that the two don't bond and there's aggression, minimal variety in the tank if I have 2 clowns and a blenny.

Royal Gramma

• Pros: Gorgeous fish, relatively peaceful, should spend time in the water column when it adjusts, color diversity.
• Cons: Can be territorial of its cave, not many (2) cave options, might be too large for the tank w/ 2 other fish, as the last fish added it could be bullied by the clown and blenny (it's peaceful, but assertive).

Pink Streaked Wrasse

• Pros: Pretty fish, peaceful, active, should do well in this tank with the other inhabitants.
• Cons: Hard to find.

Possum Wrasse

• Pros: Active in the water column, neat looking, should do will with tankmates.
• Cons: Can be pretty price ($100-140 near me), not the most beautiful fish.

Fire Fish

• Pros: Gorgeous, peaceful, ideal size for the tank
• Cons: Extremely shy, can easily be bullied and generally should be first addition, not last. May not be very active.

Yellowtail Damsel

• Pros: Great color, super hardy, active, cheap.
• Cons: Can be mean, would do better in a larger tank, hard to rehome.

Goby (any)

• Pros: Small, peaceful, quirky.
• Cons: Tiny, another perching/cave dwelling fish (so similar to the Blenny). Not super active in the water column.

As of right now, I'd probably snag a pink streaked if I could find one. That's the way I'm leaning. but it seems unlikely that I'll find one any time soon (if at all), and I'm open to other options. Of the list, I'm least interested in another goby. Don't get me wrong, they're neat fish, but I'm looking for something a bit more active in the water column. I think my 2nd choice at the moment is a tossup between the possum wrasse or the second clown, but I'm not sold on either. I love the gramma, but I'm worried it wouldn't thrive in this tank. The damsel is, well... it's a damsel (though I've always liked them) and I really do think the tank is too small. I've never actually had a fire fish in any of my reefs, so I'm not sure what to expect with them. I appreciate the thoughts/suggestions.

 

[Fish Think Pink]

I'm likely to add a 3rd and final fish in the next two weeks or so. Right now I have a Tailspot Blenny and a Davinci Ocellaris (about 1.5 inches long). The tank is the 13.5g EVO, mixed reef (softies, LPS, and a couple of sticks) with a few small hermits, skunk cleaner, and a couple of snails. I'm hoping to get some feedback as I'm genuinely having a hard time deciding. These are my options with (with some pros/cons):

Another clown (leaning toward mocha storm).

• Pros: could potentially pair with the existing clown, great color/pattern, active, hardy.
• Cons: Tank is on the smaller side for a clownfish pair, possibility that the two don't bond and there's aggression, minimal variety in the tank if I have 2 clowns and a blenny.

Royal Gramma

• Pros: Gorgeous fish, relatively peaceful, should spend time in the water column when it adjusts, color diversity.
• Cons: Can be territorial of its cave, not many (2) cave options, might be too large for the tank w/ 2 other fish, as the last fish added it could be bullied by the clown and blenny (it's peaceful, but assertive).

Pink Streaked Wrasse

• Pros: Pretty fish, peaceful, active, should do well in this tank with the other inhabitants.
• Cons: Hard to find.

Possum Wrasse

• Pros: Active in the water column, neat looking, should do will with tankmates.
• Cons: Can be pretty price ($100-140 near me), not the most beautiful fish.

Fire Fish

• Pros: Gorgeous, peaceful, ideal size for the tank
• Cons: Extremely shy, can easily be bullied and generally should be first addition, not last. May not be very active.

Yellowtail Damsel

• Pros: Great color, super hardy, active, cheap.
• Cons: Can be mean, would do better in a larger tank, hard to rehome.

Goby (any)

• Pros: Small, peaceful, quirky.
• Cons: Tiny, another perching/cave dwelling fish (so similar to the Blenny). Not super active in the water column.

As of right now, I'd probably snag a pink streaked if I could find one. That's the way I'm leaning. but it seems unlikely that I'll find one any time soon (if at all), and I'm open to other options. Of the list, I'm least interested in another goby. Don't get me wrong, they're neat fish, but I'm looking for something a bit more active in the water column. I think my 2nd choice at the moment is a tossup between the possum wrasse or the second clown, but I'm not sold on either. I love the gramma, but I'm worried it wouldn't thrive in this tank. The damsel is, well... it's a damsel (though I've always liked them) and I really do think the tank is too small. I've never actually had a fire fish in any of my reefs, so I'm not sure what to expect with them. I appreciate the thoughts/suggestions.

+1 vote fire fish/dartfish

my red was always out until it joined Olympic Carpet Surfing Club - deadly habit. You want a cover over your tank. My red snuck out - sad. My purple continues to be out all the time. It does like to have a sleeping & hiding hole if nervous, even if it has to dig into the sand bed to form spot (my purple is weak/wimpy - I started its hole thru sand under rock using my finger.)

 

[jfoahs04]

+1 vote fire fish/dartfish

my red was always out until it joined Olympic Carpet Surfing Club - deadly habit. You want a cover over your tank. My red snuck out - sad. My purple continues to be out all the time. It does like to have a sleeping & hiding hole if nervous, even if it has to dig into the sand bed to form spot (my purple is weak/wimpy - I started its hole thru sand under rock using my finger.)

Thanks! No concerns about adding to a small tank with a tailspot and clown that have already established themselves? It would have a decent amount of hiding space in the rockwork or sand if it wanted.

I have a jump guard. I’ve learned the hard way in the past too.

 

[Mikedawg]

Good analysis and as you know the behavior characteristics published for many fish don't necessarily apply to the one you get and a lot depends on their size, age, available hiding spaces, etc. That said, firefish might be a good choice or perhaps a small orchid dottyback (the two I have had never shown much aggression)

Fun part of the hobby is figuring this out.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Skip the gramma and go for a captive-bred orchid dottyback! They look great in an Evo (I have two in one of mine), and are much more kinetic than firefish. Firefish are lovely...but they just sort of hang around. Dottybacks are much more active and weave in and out of aquascape. They're lovely fish.

 

[jfoahs04]

Skip the gramma and go for a captive-bred orchid dottyback! They look great in an Evo (I have two in one of mine), and are much more kinetic than firefish. Firefish are lovely...but they just sort of hang around. Dottybacks are much more active and weave in and out of aquascape. They're lovely fish.

Good analysis and as you know the behavior characteristics published for many fish don't necessarily apply to the one you get and a lot depends on their size, age, available hiding spaces, etc. That said, firefish might be a good choice or perhaps a small orchid dottyback (the two I have had never shown much aggression)

Fun part of the hobby is figuring this out.

Thank you both!

I had one orchid dottyback in my first tank years ago and it was aggressive. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing and way overstocked my tank, so that was likely a factor. I LOVE them, but I was worried it'd terrorize its tankmates. You don't think it'd be an issue with the clown and blenny?

 

[Mikedawg]

Thank you both!

I had one orchid dottyback in my first tank years ago and it was aggressive. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing and way overstocked my tank, so that was likely a factor. I LOVE them, but I was worried it'd terrorize its tankmates. You don't think it'd be an issue with the clown and blenny?

Difficult to tell until it is in the tank and hard to catch, lol. I personally would try a small one and looks like you have a lot of potential hiding places/territory markers. Good luck.

 

[davidcalgary29]

Thank you both!

I had one orchid dottyback in my first tank years ago and it was aggressive. Of course, I had no idea what I was doing and way overstocked my tank, so that was likely a factor. I LOVE them, but I was worried it'd terrorize its tankmates. You don't think it'd be an issue with the clown and blenny?

I've heard this repeatedly from former owners. I'm not sure if captive-bred specimens have just been socialized to a greater degree than wild specimens, or there have been cases of species misidentification, or there's just been a significant species-wide genetic drift in the past few years, but I haven't seen any of that behaviour from my dottybacks. I have four of them -- two in a 65g tank with three other fish (incuding two dwarf angels), and two in one of my Evos with a mandrin goby, and they've been great. I used to have a firefish in the Evo, and that was actually the dominant fish in the tank.

The aggression scale in my 65g is essentially angel>angel>fairy wrasse>dottybacks.

 

[Rick's Reviews]

I would avoid royal gramme

I'm likely to add a 3rd and final fish in the next two weeks or so. Right now I have a Tailspot Blenny and a Davinci Ocellaris (about 1.5 inches long). The tank is the 13.5g EVO, mixed reef (softies, LPS, and a couple of sticks) with a few small hermits, skunk cleaner, and a couple of snails. I'm hoping to get some feedback as I'm genuinely having a hard time deciding. These are my options with (with some pros/cons):

Another clown (leaning toward mocha storm).

• Pros: could potentially pair with the existing clown, great color/pattern, active, hardy.
• Cons: Tank is on the smaller side for a clownfish pair, possibility that the two don't bond and there's aggression, minimal variety in the tank if I have 2 clowns and a blenny.

Royal Gramma

• Pros: Gorgeous fish, relatively peaceful, should spend time in the water column when it adjusts, color diversity.
• Cons: Can be territorial of its cave, not many (2) cave options, might be too large for the tank w/ 2 other fish, as the last fish added it could be bullied by the clown and blenny (it's peaceful, but assertive).

Pink Streaked Wrasse

• Pros: Pretty fish, peaceful, active, should do well in this tank with the other inhabitants.
• Cons: Hard to find.

Possum Wrasse

• Pros: Active in the water column, neat looking, should do will with tankmates.
• Cons: Can be pretty price ($100-140 near me), not the most beautiful fish.

Fire Fish

• Pros: Gorgeous, peaceful, ideal size for the tank
• Cons: Extremely shy, can easily be bullied and generally should be first addition, not last. May not be very active.

Yellowtail Damsel

• Pros: Great color, super hardy, active, cheap.
• Cons: Can be mean, would do better in a larger tank, hard to rehome.

Goby (any)

• Pros: Small, peaceful, quirky.
• Cons: Tiny, another perching/cave dwelling fish (so similar to the Blenny). Not super active in the water column.

As of right now, I'd probably snag a pink streaked if I could find one. That's the way I'm leaning. but it seems unlikely that I'll find one any time soon (if at all), and I'm open to other options. Of the list, I'm least interested in another goby. Don't get me wrong, they're neat fish, but I'm looking for something a bit more active in the water column. I think my 2nd choice at the moment is a tossup between the possum wrasse or the second clown, but I'm not sold on either. I love the gramma, but I'm worried it wouldn't thrive in this tank. The damsel is, well... it's a damsel (though I've always liked them) and I really do think the tank is too small. I've never actually had a fire fish in any of my reefs, so I'm not sure what to expect with them. I appreciate the thoughts/suggestions.

I would avoid royal grammar, I had one for its colours half yellow half purple but it became so territorial and aggressive, in an established Fowler aquarium, literally got bulky and became the bully, for me I would avoid however, all aquariums are different and to be honest he was the most striking looking fish as in colour at the time

 

[jfoahs04]

I've heard this repeatedly from former owners. I'm not sure if captive-bred specimens have just been socialized to a greater degree than wild specimens, or there have been cases of species misidentification, or there's just been a significant species-wide genetic drift in the past few years, but I haven't seen any of that behaviour from my dottybacks. I have four of them -- two in a 65g tank with three other fish (incuding two dwarf angels), and two in one of my Evos with a mandrin goby, and they've been great. I used to have a firefish in the Evo, and that was actually the dominant fish in the tank.

The aggression scale in my 65g is essentially angel>angel>fairy wrasse>dottybacks.

Awesome, thanks. After reading up a little more it does seem like the captive breds aren’t as aggressive. Great fish.

 

[jfoahs04]

I would avoid royal gramme

I would avoid royal grammar, I had one for its colours half yellow half purple but it became so territorial and aggressive, in an established Fowler aquarium, literally got bulky and became the bully, for me I would avoid however, all aquariums are different and to be honest he was the most striking looking fish as in colour at the time

I’ve heard that too. Beautiful fish though.

 

[keithw283]

I'm likely to add a 3rd and final fish in the next two weeks or so. Right now I have a Tailspot Blenny and a Davinci Ocellaris (about 1.5 inches long). The tank is the 13.5g EVO, mixed reef (softies, LPS, and a couple of sticks) with a few small hermits, skunk cleaner, and a couple of snails. I'm hoping to get some feedback as I'm genuinely having a hard time deciding. These are my options with (with some pros/cons):

Another clown (leaning toward mocha storm).

• Pros: could potentially pair with the existing clown, great color/pattern, active, hardy.
• Cons: Tank is on the smaller side for a clownfish pair, possibility that the two don't bond and there's aggression, minimal variety in the tank if I have 2 clowns and a blenny.

Royal Gramma

• Pros: Gorgeous fish, relatively peaceful, should spend time in the water column when it adjusts, color diversity.
• Cons: Can be territorial of its cave, not many (2) cave options, might be too large for the tank w/ 2 other fish, as the last fish added it could be bullied by the clown and blenny (it's peaceful, but assertive).

Pink Streaked Wrasse

• Pros: Pretty fish, peaceful, active, should do well in this tank with the other inhabitants.
• Cons: Hard to find.

Possum Wrasse

• Pros: Active in the water column, neat looking, should do will with tankmates.
• Cons: Can be pretty price ($100-140 near me), not the most beautiful fish.

Fire Fish

• Pros: Gorgeous, peaceful, ideal size for the tank
• Cons: Extremely shy, can easily be bullied and generally should be first addition, not last. May not be very active.

Yellowtail Damsel

• Pros: Great color, super hardy, active, cheap.
• Cons: Can be mean, would do better in a larger tank, hard to rehome.

Goby (any)

• Pros: Small, peaceful, quirky.
• Cons: Tiny, another perching/cave dwelling fish (so similar to the Blenny). Not super active in the water column.

As of right now, I'd probably snag a pink streaked if I could find one. That's the way I'm leaning. but it seems unlikely that I'll find one any time soon (if at all), and I'm open to other options. Of the list, I'm least interested in another goby. Don't get me wrong, they're neat fish, but I'm looking for something a bit more active in the water column. I think my 2nd choice at the moment is a tossup between the possum wrasse or the second clown, but I'm not sold on either. I love the gramma, but I'm worried it wouldn't thrive in this tank. The damsel is, well... it's a damsel (though I've always liked them) and I really do think the tank is too small. I've never actually had a fire fish in any of my reefs, so I'm not sure what to expect with them. I appreciate the thoughts/suggestions.

I have a royal gramma in my 55 and the clownfish hangs out with him right near his cave. It is fairly active in the water column after it hid for a few days. I couldn't imagine him picking on any other fish with the way mine has been acting. I know my tank Is bigger than yours but the clownfish mostly stays by the cave the whole time

 

[jfoahs04]

So I went with a captive bred Orchid Dottyback - added to the tank today. Beautiful fish. I'm hoping things will settle down a bit, but I'm a little concerned about aggression from the Dotty toward the Tailspot Blenny. They're roughly the same size and the Dotty has chased the blenny twice. Northing too serious yet, but as it gets more comfortable, I'm a little concerned the chasing will increase.

The good news is that the Dotty went right for a a chunk of rockwork that is on the opposite end of the tank from the Blenny's normal spot. It seems to be sticking to it. We'll see. It's a gorgeous fish, so I hope it works out. I don't want to have to rehome it.

 

[davidcalgary29]

So I went with a captive bred Orchid Dottyback - added to the tank today. Beautiful fish. I'm hoping things will settle down a bit, but I'm a little concerned about aggression from the Dotty toward the Tailspot Blenny. They're roughly the same size and the Dotty has chased the blenny twice. Northing too serious yet, but as it gets more comfortable, I'm a little concerned the chasing will increase.

The good news is that the Dotty went right for a a chunk of rockwork that is on the opposite end of the tank from the Blenny's normal spot. It seems to be sticking to it. We'll see. It's a gorgeous fish, so I hope it works out. I don't want to have to rehome it.

I've come to believe that orchid dottybacks need to be kept in pairs or larger groups; I keep hearing repeated stories of aggression from solitary dottybacks. The dottybacks share my Evo with a mandarin goby; the dottybacks are the bottom of the food chain in my RSM250, which is dominated by a pair of dwarf angels and a fairy wrasse. I've only ever seen domestic squabbling between the dottybacks, and nothing ever directed at other fish.

Your idea to keep close watch is a good one. I do hope things settle down for you.

 

[jfoahs04]

I've come to believe that orchid dottybacks need to be kept in pairs or larger groups; I keep hearing repeated stories of aggression from solitary dottybacks. The dottybacks share my Evo with a mandarin goby; the dottybacks are the bottom of the food chain in my RSM250, which is dominated by a pair of dwarf angels and a fairy wrasse. I've only ever seen domestic squabbling between the dottybacks, and nothing ever directed at other fish.

Your idea to keep close watch is a good one. I do hope things settle down for you.

Thanks, we'll see. The Tailspot seems to be happy to stay out of the way (but is still grazing happily).

 

[i cant think]

In all honesty, I’d go for a clown goby (They are small HOWEVER, if you watch one then they are very personable). I love my Black and even though I’ve only had him for about 3 days - He is the most personality filled fish in my tank (And there’s a pink streak, blue star leopard, naoko fairy, yasha goby and a Dot Dash Blenny in the tank so they all have giant personalities).

 

[jfoahs04]

I love the green clown gobies, but I’d like something that is more active in the water column. That’s why I ended up with the Orchid Dottyback. I love my blenny, so the leash is pretty short for the Dotty. I’m hopeful they can coexist. If not, I’ll be looking for replacement for the Dotty.

 

[i cant think]

I love the green clown gobies, but I’d like something that is more active in the water column. That’s why I ended up with the Orchid Dottyback. I love my blenny, so the leash is pretty short for the Dotty. I’m hopeful they can coexist. If not, I’ll be looking for replacement for the Dotty.

it’s great to know you went the dottyback route - They’re known to be bad but if we can get some good perspectives where people have owned them and they’ve been fine then that would be great and they wouldn’t have such a bad reputation!

 

[jfoahs04]

it’s great to know you went the dottyback route - They’re known to be bad but if we can get some good perspectives where people have owned them and they’ve been fine then that would be great and they wouldn’t have such a bad reputation!

Yeah I hope it works because they’re cool fish. I’m not very optimistic though. It has chased my blenny a couple of times in the first day. I hope they both settle on their spaces because if they don’t and the dotty keeps chasing the blenny, I’m going to have to rehome it. In my experience, a fish that starts aggressive like that tends to get more aggressive as it gets more comfortable, not the other way around. But we will see. I’ll be keeping a close eye over the next few days.

 

[jfoahs04]

Well, this experiment is going to be a short one. The dottyback is going to be re-homed as soon as I can catch him (using a DIY bottle trap - open to other suggestions). This particular fish is just too aggressive for this tank. I don't necessarily blame the fish, it's a small tank and they claim territories by nature. I was hopeful it would claim one little cluster of rockwork and leave the blenny its own cluster, but the dotty seems to think the whole tank is his territory and won't leave the blenny alone (though it couldn't care less about the clown).

Maybe in a bigger tank this would work, and I'm envious of others who have had success, but it's definitely not going to work in this tank with this combination. I'll need to get a more peaceful tankmate.