This is a tough one, lets figure this out!

[SoSublime]

Alright, so I have a tank, approximately 1 1/2 years old.

Tank was doing phenomenal, growth, stability, everything you could ask for.

Then, almost like a soft slow crash, with tank wide coral by coral STN.
Parameters do not fluctuate. 8.2dKH, 410cal, 1400-1420 mag as of today. Parameters were the same as time of "crash" (which is still ongoing), tank is setup with auto doser dosing ESV.

Now the tank is a LPS dominant tank. And I have ALWAYS dealt with low nutrients (think undetectable but without Dinos).

I have tried to rule out everything. I have moved coral to a different tank after dipping and debriding with lugols and dipped with Coral Rx. Neither show any change and progressed in a different tank (also low nutrients its common across all my tanks). Checked tank for copper with Hanna. Tried carbon to pull out any possible contaminants. I have tried almost every possible thing, to the point where all I have left to do is
1. Get an ICP (currently doing)
2. Bring up nutrient levels with heavier feeding, no skimming, and dosing neo-nitro/neo-phos as well as occasional amino (also currently doing).
I did check a few pumps, and I added some poly-filter today to check for metals. But I dont believe it to be a contamination issue, as I have feather dusters blooming like crazy in my sump, and excellent coraline growth. The problem starts and ends with only my coral. No problems with hermits, snails, feather dusters, etc.

Could my extremely low nutrients really cause sudden tank wide STN? Which theoretically would be a "long term" stress issue that is no longer sustainable? I just have a hard time believing that every coral would be fine, to suddenly every coral declining on a nutrient issue alone. I should also note my Zoas and Rhodactis are doing absolutely fine and growing. Its ONLY my stony corals

 

[vetteguy53081]

Have you changed salt mic or type of water?
If RODI what is your tds? Any red/black bugs on coral??
I noticed mag a little high (should be 1300)
What is phosphate and nitrate readings?

 

[Crustaceon]

It’s likely phosphate related to be more specific. I could see you feeding and maybe that one time whatever is mixed into it has something that causes a slight bacterial bloom. This temporarily bottoms out your already border-line phosphate and causes STN. The thing is when it comes to running low nutrients you walk a very fine line between having really good colors and stn. Very slight changes, even imperceptible ones can cross that line and cause a crash. One day everything looks great. The next day, your stonies are having serious issues as they’re the canaries in the coal mine when it comes to nutrient availability.

 

[InvaderJim]

Ive been fighting something eerily similar in my nano tank and have done a lot of the same ruling out that you have. Haven't managed to figure anything out and it looks like im going to lose all my euphyllia from that tank. I'll be following along in case you figure something out.

 

[SoSublime]

Have you changed salt mic or type of water?
If RODI what is your tds? Any red/black bugs on coral??
I noticed mag a little high (should be 1300)
What is phosphate and nitrate readings?

No salt has always been Red Sea blue bucket. Water I make, 7 stage RODI that gets changed after it hits 1tds.

Nothing visually on coral.

I've always ran my mag alittle higher. Its also a Red Sea test so mag could be anywhere between 1350-1420.

Nitrate and Phosphate have always read close to zero. Nitrate is done with Salifert and NYOS = 0. Phos with Hanna PPB, also only +/-1PPB.
My parameters have always been about there however, so it hasn't changed.

No GFO or Carbon running.

And like Crustacean said, I dont like running ULNS because I've been afraid of dinos and worried for my LPS, but I've tried to bring it up and I just haven't been able to through natural methods, so I've started dosing Neo-nitro/neo-phos now that I'm in the end game of eliminating potential issues.

Would I be right in saying contamination of heavy metals is unlikely given all other inverts like feather dusters, snails, and hermits are doing absolutely fine? Of course ICP test will truly reveal that, but currently waiting on results.

 

[HuduVudu]

Very likely trace elements or possibly your two part has your Na Cl balance out of wack.

Either way do more water changes, if you are not doing them already.

 

[SoSublime]

Very likely trace elements or possibly your two part has your Na Cl balance out of wack.

Either way do more water changes, if you are not doing them already.

I dont think its trace elements or balance, as I use ESV which is trace+macro and I think anyone can attest to it being quality. Not to mention the tank ran fine for months, with WCs with the dosing system. Plus all Macro elements have stayed perfectly in line.

I'm worried about upping WCs right now, as I did do a large WC, 50-60%, when I started to see issues, and it almost seemed to make it worse.

Regardless this question will be ruled out in ICP test because at this point, its anyone's guess.

 

[iamacat]

I have a feeling your extended period of an imbalanced N&P ratio could be an issue.
I didn’t catch how your corals have failed. Like, have they bleached, receded, bailed out? Also how long have the corals been in the tank before this happens? How long is the process from when you notice to when they are gone? That might help

 

[Tired]

IMO, do fewer water changes, and possibly up feeding slightly. Low phosphate could very well be the problem, like you suggested. It won't hurt your corals to up nutrients a little and see if it helps, after all.

 

[SoSublime]

I have a feeling your extended period of an imbalanced N&P ratio could be an issue.
I didn’t catch how your corals have failed. Like, have they bleached, receded, bailed out? Also how long have the corals been in the tank before this happens? How long is the process from when you notice to when they are gone? That might help

Recession. I think I had maybe 1 euphie bail out, but that was after recession.

It affects corals I got a year ago, to corals from a few months ago, no discrimination between time in tank. But the process is LONG, as in weeks. Some corals like my cyphastrea have receded slowly for over a month, others like acans, took a week or more. With periods that seem to get better, to periods which get worse. Its a flip flop.

No major changes have been made, only a large WC that was parameter matched, and then checking equipment and parameters over time to try to rule out issues.

 

[SoSublime]

And just for sake here's a phos test I just ran. 5ppb, translates to 0.015ppm.

 

[iamacat]

And just for sake here's a phos test I just ran. 5ppb, translates to 0.015ppm.

For fun can you post a nitrate ?

 

[Tired]

Yeah, that's too low. You want 0.03, minimum, as a general rule. I'm surprised your LPS aren't stressed by it. Might not be the whole problem, but I'm sure it's contributing.

Do you directly feed your corals? It may be worth feeding anything that'll accept it, to help get some nutrition into them.

 

[SoSublime]

Yeah, that's too low. You want 0.03, minimum, as a general rule. I'm surprised your LPS aren't stressed by it. Might not be the whole problem, but I'm sure it's contributing.

Do you directly feed your corals? It may be worth feeding anything that'll accept it, to help get some nutrition into them.

Its absolutely too low. But this is also after dosing 3ml of Neo-Phos today which according to my dosing calculations would be close to 0.01ppm dosed. So my phosphate wouldve been in the margin of error of 0-1ppb.

And will do. Give me a few min to run the test

 

[X-37B]

Any pics?

 

[SoSublime]

For fun can you post a nitrate ?

Sorry NYOS kit doesn't show up well in pictures. About 3ppm, after a total of doing about 2ppm.

So pre-dose wouldve be close to 1ppm.

Its important I reiterate, my nutrient parameters now, are a result of an ongoing attempt to bring my parameters up. So 3ppm N and 0.015ppm P are what I'm at now, a week ago I was undetectable on N and 1ppb or .003 on P.

 

[iamacat]

Yea for sure an issue with nutrients. What do you feed?

 

[SoSublime]

Yea for sure an issue with nutrients. What do you feed?

I feed Hikari mysis, PE mysis, LRS for frozen
And then also Benereef, Roids, ReefChili, Coralfrenzy, and LPS pellets.

I dont feed a ton as I dont have much fish, as I sadly have had terrible luck getting fish through QT as every stock attempt has been met with velvet, Brook, ich, and some bacterial infections from different suppliers. And I know without fish, im always going to be short changed on nitrate production.

 

[SoSublime]

Here's a few pics. Some are in a different tank now to try to isolate them in different water parameters, although every tank I have is low nutrient.

 

[Caseyoidae]

I’d say the long term low no3 and po4 are the problem. I’d try to keep them up with daily dosing. Eventually you may find you don’t need to dose anymore but for now you may want to. Try to get that 5ppb to 10 and nitrate up a hair and both stable. Over feeding is not a great consistent way to raise n&p. It will do it but results vary.all that bacteria that has grown over the last year and a half is also consuming nitrate. Water changes will only removed n&p. You want to raise them.