Thoughts on Hawaii Ban

[saltyfins]

So do you guys think this Hawaii fish ban is the beginning of the end to the reef hobby? Will more places follow along? Will most fish be captive bread and will prices be so outrageous that it will make the hobby undesirable? I feel bad for all these companies out there. I know me for one is definitely going to hold off on expensive reef equipment purchases for the foreseeable future, like controllers , testers , etc etc .

I wondered that too. then will corals be hit? thinking this happened years ago for a time, maybe I'm wrong though

 

[Zionas]

I really hope not.....

 

[Matt1997]

Hey guys, selling my Achilles tang for $2000 if anyone is interested

 

[richiero]

Hey guys, selling my Achilles tang for $2000 if anyone is interested

Lol that’s going to sit on the shelf for a while

 

[richiero]

Hawaii's Aquarium Fishery Is Shuttered, Pending Review

What has happened to Hawaii's marine aquarium fishery is profound. One could argue it serves as both a game plan for those opposed, and a real-wo

www.reef2rainforest.com

 

[HuduVudu]

No need to panic things like this happen all the time and since ornamental collection is always under attack because it is an easy target because if it's size. Learn how to keep the creatures you have and you will have no problem weathering the dry periods when some dictator decides to shut the hobby off.

 

[CubsFan]

I sure can and as a matter of fact, I did. If you want to live in a fantasy land where “government knows best”, be my guest. Government has failed to regulate many things, time and time again. I dont have to argue with you, you can open a history book.

and it’s not even about the fish. It’s about the people who lost part of their livelihood at the smack of a gavel. This is no different than people who have never farmed passing laws and regulations for agriculture.

Do you think you might open a history book and find that govs have succeeded in regulating many things?

Is every regulation just another inch forward towards the slippery slope to a dystopian nightmare? I’d guess that most of your library is fiction.

I don’t think that the original intent of this thread was meant to invite temper tantrums about anything other than the actions of the Hawaiian gov on the hobby. Get it together folks.

 

[richiero]

No need to panic things like this happen all the time and since ornamental collection is always under attack because it is an easy target because if it's size. Learn how to keep the creatures you have and you will have no problem weathering the dry periods when some dictator decides to shut the hobby off.

I'm good with the creatures I have I want to be able to add stuff to my tank and the such, I'm just worried this bill will be snowballing our hobby into extinction no pun intended.

 

[Reefing Madness]

Do you think you might open a history book and find that govs have succeeded in regulating many things?

Is every regulation just another inch forward towards the slippery slope to a dystopian nightmare? I’d guess that most of your library is fiction.

I don’t think that the original intent of this thread was meant to invite temper tantrums about anything other than the actions of the Hawaiian gov on the hobby. Get it together folks.

What he said. Keep covid and govt politics out of the discussion, thanks gang.

 

[HuduVudu]

This has been happening off and on since the inception of the hobby. Many of the places that these creatures are from are not good places for any kind of freedom. There are places all over the world that collect. Many might be surprised to learn that many fish come out of Sri Lanka. When one are stops collecting others pick up the slack.

Hawaii has been off and on, mostly off, for years. This is nothing new, and the impact will be what has always been ... minor.

Like everything in this hobby patience is most important. I am shocked at how much mariculture/aquaculture I see across the board. This is a good sign and is diminishing our industry's already tiny footprint. We are not the problem, but we have no voice i.e. money. Soon enough it won't matter.

Relax focus on your aquarium's health and ignore all of the noise. Trust me it is just that ... noise.

 

[richiero]

What he said. Keep covid and govt politics out of the discussion, thanks gang.

It’s not politics it’s the facts on how the bill got passed. But ok

 

[richiero]

This has been happening off and on since the inception of the hobby. Many of the places that these creatures are from are not good places for any kind of freedom. There are places all over the world that collect. Many might be surprised to learn that many fish come out of Sri Lanka. When one are stops collecting others pick up the slack.

Hawaii has been off and on, mostly off, for years. This is nothing new, and the impact will be what has always been ... minor.

Like everything in this hobby patience is most important. I am shocked at how much mariculture/aquaculture I see across the board. This is a good sign and is diminishing our industry's already tiny footprint. We are not the problem, but we have no voice i.e. money. Soon enough it won't matter.

Relax focus on your aquarium's health and ignore all of the noise. Trust me it is just that ... noise.

There a great sign I think aquaculture is the future if it wants to survive and the prices need to be fair and not gouge the hobbyist . I know when it comes to aquaculture tangs there is one company that has a monopoly on it and that’s not fair b/c their prices will be insane

 

[HuduVudu]

There a great sign I think aquaculture is the future if it wants to survive and the prices need to be fair and not gouge the hobbyist . I know when it comes to aquaculture tangs there is one company that has a monopoly on it and that’s not fair b/c their prices will be insane

Once again if their prices are too high then people will not buy those tangs. For years it was the purple tang that was in this position. Many bought it for prestige, but most weren't interested in the cost.

There will be other sources of Yellow tangs and in all the years Hawaii has been off and on I have really not seen the price of these tangs fluctuate.

We are at the mercy in many many ways in our life to people that would try to monopolize, this will never stop. Sometimes it is nefarious sometimes it is a function of price realities or luck. Either way your greatest power as a consumer is to just say no. Use that power regularly and often. Punish "unfair" prices by withholding your money. Remember you do not have a right to other people's labor or property unless of course you are will to give up that right yourself. I find most people see this only from one direction, best to look at each side.

Also be VERY careful on using the language of fair. It is a very slippery slope and will lead to very unintended and unwanted things. Nobody cares what is fair and thankfully nobody needs to because the market will work around. Just like life finds a way so to will the market if the incentive is great enough.

 

[CubsFan]

It’s not politics it’s the facts on how the bill got passed. But ok

Could you link me to where that federal bill affects this state law? I’ve skimmed the environmental provisions, but it’s a long read and the pages aren’t loading so fast for me. I tried the google, but nothing specific came up. I didn’t notice anything about it in the article you linked aside from what I’m guessing is your comment.

 

[Teemingtank]

Do you think you might open a history book and find that govs have succeeded in regulating many things?

Is every regulation just another inch forward towards the slippery slope to a dystopian nightmare? I’d guess that most of your library is fiction.

I don’t think that the original intent of this thread was meant to invite temper tantrums about anything other than the actions of the Hawaiian gov on the hobby. Get it together folks.

I already acknowledged where regulation has succeeded. There are things that cannot be regulated. As for your comment of dystopian futures, everything starts out in increments. You can’t just plunge the frog in boiling water, you have to slowly raise the temperature.

I’m sorry someone disagreeing with you is interpreted as a temper tantrum. That doesn’t surprise me with the current culture... Once again, it’s about the people who make a living, not the fish.

 

[Teemingtank]

It’s not politics it’s the facts on how the bill got passed. But ok

This was also one of my questions. Not one person has put the proposal number, the year it was proposed and how the state voted.

 

[abbypoodle]

I came to this thread, looking for a list of species impacted. The following link contains said list. I do not know which species are ONLY found in Hawaii or rarely found outside of Hawaii. I'm guessing the following list may see an uptick in price or may disappear altogether. I remember coming back into the hobby and reading up on the Indo and Live Rock ban. It's probably best if locations rotate anyway if we were having a measurable impact on the reef itself.

Catalog | Hawaii Saltwater Fish

All prices are retail FOB from Honolulu. Contact Us For Wholesale Pricing. Retail pricing below for less than $500 minimum order. R.T. Distributors Ron Tubb ...

hawaiisaltwaterfish.com

Thoughts?

 

[CubsFan]

I already acknowledged where regulation has succeeded. There are things that cannot be regulated. As for your comment of dystopian futures, everything starts out in increments. You can’t just plunge the frog in boiling water, you have to slowly raise the temperature.

I’m sorry someone disagreeing with you is interpreted as a temper tantrum. That doesn’t surprise me with the current culture... Once again, it’s about the people who make a living, not the fish.

“Current culture” It’s a temper tantrum. I’m just saying that it’s reserved for the topic. You’re on about something else. Your frog and boiling water analogy makes no sense. My comment mentions the increments “inches forward”.
It’s literally being regulated. Saying it can’t be means nothing. Now we just need Richiero to get us that link and we can get to the bottom of that issue as well. I’ve little interest in the topic and more interest in the crazy reactions in this thread. Is that the “current culture” you’re talking about? Because that’s what you’re doing.

 

[shred5]

For Zebrasoma, LFS will start importing more Purple and Scopas Tangs, eventually (I hope) CB Yellow Tangs will become like our Clownfish. And eventually, I hope more and more varieties of Tangs and other fish will come in CB.

IMO this borderline invokes the 2A for me and I’m not even American. Pandemics are a hoax and it starts in these people’s brains (yes being semi-sarcastic here).

We’re easy to target because they see us as a bunch of rag tag nerds with a fetish for marine life. The food fishing industry? That’s where they can’t afford to upset the places where bigger money is.

This wont happen because Tangs do not breed like Clownfish. They also are much harder to raise the food they require.
You can raise clowns on rotifers and brine shrimp. This is not possible with tangs or most other saltwater fish period.
Clowns also spawn on a medium like freshwater fish. Saltwater fish breeding is nothing like freshwater fish. Also places like Biota would not have the capacity to make up most likely not even 1 percent of the tangs taken from Hawaii. I do not think people realise the amount of tangs that come from Hawaii a year.

They also are hardier because of shipping, collection, airflights. This leads to more deaths now since fish will come farther away.

I also doubt we will see a huge surge in Tangs from other areas because they are all under limits too. We will most likely see less in the future as now they got Hawaii shutdown these that have opposed collecting of wild fish as pets will now use their money to shut down other areas.

The worst part is all fish will go up in price because if people can not get tangs they will switch to other fish so demand will rise.

This aint the end of the hobby but it will be for some who do not want to spend the money. This will hurt coral vendors as people leave the hobby.

 

[Zionas]

Do you think Fiji, Australia, the Red Sea, Marshall Islands, East Africa, Indonesia and the Philippines will all eventually shut down?

Or maybe Hawaii will reopen in a couple of years?