Thoughts on no lights for 4 months after cycling?

[Roachbeef19]

Finishing up cycling my 280 with dry rock and dr.tims. whats ur thoughts on not running lights for 4 months to try and skip the bad beginning algae? Here's a picture of the light from my window the tank will have so my fish won't be in the dark.

 

[Doctorgori]

The BRS crew and current conventional wisdom in this regard is lights out. There are more ways to skin a cat and I prefer just to let the algae’s “duke it out“. Just my opinion: but I like a established food chain and its starts at the bottom with algae.
We fight algae, but tanks just don’t look or run right without it “somewhere”.
I think the reason we don’t see it in pics is its just eaten + limited on coral reefs. <—- (statement needs cleanup/expansion)

 

[ahiggins]

Agree with above. You can do it however you want. I personally cycle and keep lights off for about 4 months if I’m doing dry start. It’s easier for me to bypass the really ugly stages and I usually only see a tiny spike in algae once I get the fish in there

 

[brandon429]

the uglies will still come when lights and nutrients are provided, have a plan. I recommend not doing what the masses do, per the nuisance algae forum. take a look there, your test is coming it wasnt skipped. following common rules is why the nuisance algae forum stays full everyday of tanks approaching loss.

what are the unifying themes in every tank there under invasion?

here are some:

how many of the tanks are pictures of a clean reef vs an uninvaded one>
none

100% of threads in the nuisance algae forum are of willfully invaded reefs, a painful fact and a borderline offensive one.

it was also possible for those reefers to present pics of a clean reef with fish and corals, that they're having to work too hard to maintain that condition, and they want help with efficiency and regrowth prevention

but there arent any of those, we like to wreck our tanks and blame it on secondary causes. the masses teach us to sit there and accept a total takeover, dose the water with something and hope it works, and then restart wasting rocks and coral. bad masses.

u should opt out of that when the lights come on

simply do not allow your tank to be invaded

what if someone gave you fifty thousand dollars on the condition that at least one of your rocks in that stack is never allowed to have algae on it visually, could that be pulled off? I can think of several ways to reef while not allowing algae on a given rock, and collecting 50K.

we then just upscale that to all your rocks, and you are fixed before you are invaded. you get to work less as efficiency increases, being invaded is a choice it has nothing to do with chemistry, parameters, or biology. motivation cures tank invasions and all uglies phases.

 

[Roachbeef19]

I've had salt tanks since I was 6 im 41 now. Took off for 5 years just wondering if that 4 month thing worked. First time doing a tank with dry rock. Always spent a lot of money on real reef rock to start a tank. So just wondering whats best with the dry rock

 

[Conovan]

The tank I have now is my first saltwater tank. I started dry. I finished my cycle, threw some fish in, and turned the lights on for a full 10 hour a day period. After a couple diatom blooms I started seeing algae and ordered cuc. While I have some algae it's not out of hand. I am enjoying watching the whole process.

 

[brandon429]

my # recommend is see algae/expected invaders as NOT a param issue and not a phosphate issue requiring alternate testing, filters, adsorbing pads etc

see the invaders as a need for access. dont glue your rocks together, be able to lift out your bottom-most rock right when murphy's law puts the bryopsis right there

once removed, accessible, you can cause the clean condition without causing dinos in your tank (nutrient starving approach to uglies prevention) and you wont have to alter other params which lead to coral bleaching, and more algae. set back in the algae-free rock.

make algae prevention personal, direct, and you will win. simply do not allow the uglies, physically dont allow it like we dont allow dandelions in a yard. accessibility can fix every invasion in reefing if it is combined with will


if your goal is to starve off algae, or prevent it by reducing Nitrate or Phosphate, or with a clean up crew, then in 5 months/nuisance algae forum post. everyone has a cuc in the nuisance algae forum, or dinos. they refuse hands on, and only permit hands off modality


every reefer in the world wants the hands off tank that self balances and runs. number of times thats attained 1 per ten thousand attempts, the invasion help forum on any site shows. whatever would motivate you to disallow algae manually makes a certain guarantee you will not have an invaded reef


when your tank is coated in -coralline algae- then you get to work less


not much you can do before then


the benefit of waiting 4 mos was for your early coral food web, it wont help much with uglies phase.


*heavy blue lighting, and not much white, will help bigtime and it looks annoying but is best for suppression for sure among small factors you can align to suppress expected new tank uglies without causing dinos.

your best plan isn't to sample ideas, its to course through the threads in the nuisance algae forum listing highlights on how they started and ran the reef tank, then do polar opposite so your outcome would be opposite.

*a UV sterilizer would be the single best piece of hardware you could buy for your upcoming challenge, second prevention tip.

 

[Doctorgori]

A lot of the lights out thing developed in tandem with the rise of dry rock. Had you started off with 1/2 alive 1/2 dead ocean rock there would just a likely be enough bio-diversity in micro-herbivores to somewhat deal with the assorted species of nuisance algae’s. But with dry rock, CUC are ala-carte’ and not absolutely “Complete”.

I’ll say this to anyone using 100% dry rock; get a piece or 2 of “pest-free” real rock just for balance, see what happens.

 

[92Miata]

It's a big waste in my opinion.

You'll still have uglies. And you'll have had 4 months where you weren't growing Coraline and corals and all the other things that eat nitrate and phosphate and stabilize tanks.

Get some Corrine sources in there(arc reef is great), lots of blue light and no white, and let things grow.

By that 4 month period you'll have significant Coraline and be in much better shape. If you want to kick things forward a bit further, buy a couple pounds of live rock.

 

[Roachbeef19]

It's a big waste in my opinion.

You'll still have uglies. And you'll have had 4 months where you weren't growing Coraline and corals and all the other things that eat nitrate and phosphate and stabilize tanks.

Get some Corrine sources in there(arc reef is great), lots of blue light and no white, and let things grow.

By that 4 month period you'll have significant Coraline and be in much better shape. If you want to kick things forward a bit further, buy a couple pounds of live rock.

Recommend any places that sell live rock?

 

[92Miata]

Other local reefers is always good - and i've heard a lot of good things about KPAquatics aquacultured gulf rock. They have smaller packages with shipping included. There's some risk of stuff like gorilla crabs with aquacultured rock, but if you're not stocking a whole tank with it, it's pretty easy to let it sit in a 10g for a couple days and get them before they get in the real tank.

Aquacultured live rock will usually get you a couple strains of corraline, a bunch of different sponges, etc.

 

[JohnnyBeagle]

I used gulfliverock.com and their premium rock for my latest two tanks and went lights on immediately. Ugly phase on the first tank wasn't too bad, second one isn't there yet

 

[Roachbeef19]

I honestly thought no one sold live rock that's why I went dry. All my old tanks were all filled with live rock

 

[sawdonkey]

the uglies will still come when lights and nutrients are provided, have a plan. I recommend not doing what the masses do, per the nuisance algae forum. take a look there, your test is coming it wasnt skipped. following common rules is why the nuisance algae forum stays full everyday of tanks approaching loss.

what are the unifying themes in every tank there under invasion?

here are some:

how many of the tanks are pictures of a clean reef vs an uninvaded one>
none

100% of threads in the nuisance algae forum are of willfully invaded reefs, a painful fact and a borderline offensive one.

it was also possible for those reefers to present pics of a clean reef with fish and corals, that they're having to work too hard to maintain that condition, and they want help with efficiency and regrowth prevention

but there arent any of those, we like to wreck our tanks and blame it on secondary causes. the masses teach us to sit there and accept a total takeover, dose the water with something and hope it works, and then restart wasting rocks and coral. bad masses.

u should opt out of that when the lights come on

simply do not allow your tank to be invaded

what if someone gave you fifty thousand dollars on the condition that at least one of your rocks in that stack is never allowed to have algae on it visually, could that be pulled off? I can think of several ways to reef while not allowing algae on a given rock, and collecting 50K.

we then just upscale that to all your rocks, and you are fixed before you are invaded. you get to work less as efficiency increases, being invaded is a choice it has nothing to do with chemistry, parameters, or biology. motivation cures tank invasions and all uglies phases.

my # recommend is see algae/expected invaders as NOT a param issue and not a phosphate issue requiring alternate testing, filters, adsorbing pads etc

see the invaders as a need for access. dont glue your rocks together, be able to lift out your bottom-most rock right when murphy's law puts the bryopsis right there

once removed, accessible, you can cause the clean condition without causing dinos in your tank (nutrient starving approach to uglies prevention) and you wont have to alter other params which lead to coral bleaching, and more algae. set back in the algae-free rock.

make algae prevention personal, direct, and you will win. simply do not allow the uglies, physically dont allow it like we dont allow dandelions in a yard. accessibility can fix every invasion in reefing if it is combined with will


if your goal is to starve off algae, or prevent it by reducing Nitrate or Phosphate, or with a clean up crew, then in 5 months/nuisance algae forum post. everyone has a cuc in the nuisance algae forum, or dinos. they refuse hands on, and only permit hands off modality


every reefer in the world wants the hands off tank that self balances and runs. number of times thats attained 1 per ten thousand attempts, the invasion help forum on any site shows. whatever would motivate you to disallow algae manually makes a certain guarantee you will not have an invaded reef


when your tank is coated in -coralline algae- then you get to work less


not much you can do before then


the benefit of waiting 4 mos was for your early coral food web, it wont help much with uglies phase.


*heavy blue lighting, and not much white, will help bigtime and it looks annoying but is best for suppression for sure among small factors you can align to suppress expected new tank uglies without causing dinos.

your best plan isn't to sample ideas, its to course through the threads in the nuisance algae forum listing highlights on how they started and ran the reef tank, then do polar opposite so your outcome would be opposite.

*a UV sterilizer would be the single best piece of hardware you could buy for your upcoming challenge, second prevention tip.

This is all thoroughly confusing. I’m not totally sure what you’re recommending besides physically removing algae and keeping your rocks loose so you can clean things.

I know you “have hundreds of successful tank rip-apart” threads, but the idea of taking apart my rock structure is an absolute no-go for me. A vital part of what I do relies on having a very fixed and stable rock structure.

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat and you imply there is only one (two if you include UV). Your way likely works...other ways work too, but your constant ripping on “the masses” is a bit condescending. There isn’t much in this hobby that is as black and white as you make it. Your way ain’t for everybody.

To the OP, I like your idea and I think it will be interesting to see how it goes. Getting your bacteria environment fully established before flipping on the lights might do wonders . At the same time you could monitor PO4 and NO3 and reduce them with GFO and/or carbon dosing (if out of range). Maybe you’ll avoid the uglies? Maybe you’ll get dinos? You can always get out your toothbrush if it doesn’t work.

 

[92Miata]

This is all thoroughly confusing. I’m not totally sure what you’re recommending besides physically removing algae and keeping your rocks loose so you can clean things.

I know you “have hundreds of successful tank rip-apart” threads, but the idea of taking apart my rock structure is an absolute no-go for me. A vital part of what I do relies on having a very fixed and stable rock structure.

There are a lot of ways to skin a cat and you imply there is only one (two if you include UV). Your way likely works...other ways work too, but your constant ripping on “the masses” is a bit condescending. There isn’t much in this hobby that is as black and white as you make it. Your way ain’t for everybody.

To the OP, I like your idea and I think it will be interesting to see how it goes. Getting your bacteria environment fully established before flipping on the lights might do wonders . At the same time you could monitor PO4 and NO3 and reduce them with GFO and/or carbon dosing (if out of range). Maybe you’ll avoid the uglies? Maybe you’ll get dinos? You can always get out your toothbrush if it doesn’t work.

Dry rock tanks are very different than live rock tanks. With a live rock tank you very quickly have enough corraline that it can compete with hair algae, so you can control nutrients and the corraline will eventually win.

With a dry rock tank, there's simply not enough consumers early on, and if you try to just fight hair algae via nutrients - you lose. Because it's really really good at finding food.


Gfo and carbon dosing and all that just puts the tank out of balance and changes what the organism is that exploits that gap.

You need to actively and aggressively manage algae in dry rock tanks until you have significant coralline.

 

[sawdonkey]

actively and aggressively manage algae

What do you mean by this? Let it grow, then rip it out? Scrub each rock with a toothbrush? Five tangs to eat it?

 

[brandon429]

Are people on this thread of external cleaning happy, sad, indifferent, having to scrub weekly as projected?

Reef2Reef Pest algae challenge thread hydrogen peroxide

Tank filled and was almost cloudless :D Turned on the klir roller and added a filter sock and it was clear in 2 hours. Made a makeshift frag rack as I cannot bring all rock back. Scrubbed each frag plug with a stainless steel brush or remounted depending how bad the plug was. Grabbed a couple...

www.reef2reef.com

Using the standard rule is what gets them to my thread



our hobby teaches us to sit idly by while we get invaded, we do oppositely above


accepting any other threads showing any form of consistent outcome. having the uglies as a requisite reefing expectation is the worst Information in reefing, we can also skip that stage with mere choice and with an accessible rock stack

I dont have a better way to offer, and I figure if someone else does we will have a link to check for patterns, not just a 1 tank example.

 

[brandon429]

Roachbeef you should get a quality UV sterilizer and hook it up and have it ready plumbed to be turned on or flow passively off as needed


what a UV will do for your December headaches will be immeasurable

if you get no headaches due to such a patient wait, BRS has a great idea, then all the better. my offer is merely relaying likelihoods and clues for action vs inaction. You are the only poster I know who waited four months to start yours might indeed go smoother, well done patience

we all get the gha eventually and I say work it when the day comes, cede no ground.

 

[92Miata]

What do you mean by this? Let it grow, then rip it out? Scrub each rock with a toothbrush? Five tangs to eat it?

Any of those.

Just don't take the advice of people who have never worked with dry rock and tell you to be patient or "nothing good happens fast in a reef tank".

Dry rock tanks are inherently unstable until they have corraline coverage, and if you try to wait out algae - it just gets worse.

 

[Roachbeef19]

Roachbeef you should get a quality UV sterilizer and hook it up and have it ready plumbed to be turned on or flow passively off as needed


what a UV will do for your December headaches will be immeasurable

if you get no headaches due to such a patient wait, BRS has a great idea, then all the better. my offer is merely relaying likelihoods and clues for action vs inaction. You are the only poster I know who waited four months to start yours might indeed go smoother, well done patience

we all get the gha eventually and I say work it when the day comes, cede no ground.

Any recommendations on uv sterilizers? Its a 280gallon tank with a 75 gallon sump