Thoughts on the various methodology on Dino Removal

[Pyrogens]

Hello everyone! Sorry, I know...it's yet another Dinoflagellate thread. After reading & referencing several old/new school books of thought(s) and probably 6+ hours on and off on the different opinions, methods, and "cures" to dinoflagellates, I am left quite confused indeed. So, I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse here, but I really want to see what the varying opinions nowadays are from the community as a whole who have been battling this nasty crud.

Just as a background, this is the first time in 10 years of reefing I have ever encountered Dinoflagellates across multiple successful tanks, yet here I am, staring at this ugly snotty mess that won't go away. So that leads me to my personal plan of attack after making my own conclusion on all the information I have been trying to absorb since starting this nasty battle.

The plan is to currently stop water changes (was doing bi-weekly 10% w/siphoning it out manually) and manually siphon out the dinoflagellates through a filter sock daily, into a bucket. Then taking this "reclaimed" water and putting it back into the system. I plan to keep my current lighting regime which is 11:30a - 7:30p, running all spectrums instead of doing away with white lighting or some combination of less light of x Spectrum and or x days of blackouts. I am not going to reduce twice daily feedings, and the daily sheet of nori for my tangs. I am also going to stick with the current flow within the tank provided via x2 Tunze 6105s.

I run a relatively simple setup. Tank is a 180G with a 100G baffleless sump. Total water volume is probably around ~210-220Gish. I am currently utilizing no filter socks, no reactors of any kind, no chemical filtration, not even an ATO (I top of manually daily). The only source of nutrient export within the system is a Protein Skimmer and water changes. I do not test for N02 nor NH4. I also do not regularly test for Calc, Alk, or Mag as the tank is a Softie & LPS tank only, more focused on softies.

Current Tank Parameters as of 07/01/23:
Temp: 78.6F
Salinity: 1.025
P04: 0.5
N03: 10ppm

Here are some pictures for reference, including my first session of siphoning into a filter sock ( I swear it's Dino's and not something else! )

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Step one: determine which kind of dinos you have.

 

[Pyrogens]

Step one: determine which kind of dinos you have.

Correct, and I admit I have not done so yet as I don't have access to a microscope as of yet. I am just trying to spur yet another discussion in regards to different methods on removal/eradication and documenting my personal steps into the foray.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Correct, and I admit I have not done so yet as I don't have access to a microscope as of yet. I am just trying to spur yet another discussion in regards to different methods on removal/eradication and documenting my personal steps into the foray.

The method of treatment varies depending on the type you have.

 

[Pyrogens]

The method of treatment varies depending on the type you have.

Again, I understand this. I think you are misunderstanding the overall purpose of this post. I would like you to please reread what my intentions for this discussion is. Not trying to ruffle any feathers here.

 

[Kellie in CA]

I feel your pain. I’ve been dealing with them for 2 years. I really have wanted to avoid the peroxide route, but I’m thinking of starting that tonight because I will be home for 4 days and can keep a close eye on the tank.

I have been doing daily manual removal for at least 6 months. Daily phyto, monthly pods, bottle bacteria, rock rubble direct from the ocean, shorter light cycle, 3 months of silicate dosing…..I’ve tried it all.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Again, I understand this. I think you are misunderstanding the overall purpose of this post. I would like you to please reread what my intentions for this discussion is. Not trying to ruffle any feathers here.

And yet, you post...

After reading & referencing several old/new school books of thought(s) and probably 6+ hours on and off on the different opinions, methods, and "cures" to dinoflagellates, I am left quite confused indeed

If you're already confused about the methods, then trying to ask for general information - without knowing what type of pest you have - is only going to be more confusing, no?

But you do you. I'm out.

 

[Pyrogens]

Hello everyone! Sorry, I know...it's yet another Dinoflagellate thread. After reading & referencing several old/new school books of thought(s) and probably 6+ hours on and off on the different opinions, methods, and "cures" to dinoflagellates, I am left quite confused indeed. So, I know I am beating the proverbial dead horse here, but I really want to see what the varying opinions nowadays are from the community as a whole who have been battling this nasty crud.

Ok, but you forgot the part here where I specifically called for where I wanted to see what the varying opinions nowadays are from the community as a whole in specifically to whatever strain they have. This is why I was employing you to please reread my post, as I am not just referencing my confusion in what strain I have alone. I also followed this up with my personal plan of action, again wanting to derive feedback from other people on what methods they have tried regardless of strain.

I am new around here yes, but I'm not sure where I came off on the wrong foot but your personal demeaner regarding what I'm getting at here is pretty discouraging when all I'm trying to do is spur a conversation?

 

[Pyrogens]

I feel your pain. I’ve been dealing with them for 2 years. I really have wanted to avoid the peroxide route, but I’m thinking of starting that tonight because I will be home for 4 days and can keep a close eye on the tank.

I have been doing daily manual removal for at least 6 months. Daily phyto, monthly pods, bottle bacteria, rock rubble direct from the ocean, shorter light cycle, 3 months of silicate dosing…..I’ve tried it all.

I understand, its these fun times in reefing that make it worthwhile right? Joking aside, I've also had a few conversations with veteran reefers regarding Dino's and the one fun standout I see lately with their commentary is that they all disagree with the 0ppm Phosphates and 0ppm Nitrates are the cause because that is what everyone strived for back 8+ years ago, especially SPS tanks and there was no Dino's to be found?

 

[Kellie in CA]

You kind of just have to take it all in and then do what you think is best. Several times I’ve taken advice from one person only to be told “why did you do that?”, “you’re doing too much!”, or “you’re doing too little!” from another.

Identify what type you have. For the record, I have Proro.

 

[Pyrogens]

You kind of just have to take it all in and then do what you think is best. Several times I’ve taken advice from one person only to be told “why did you do that?”, “you’re doing too much!”, or “you’re doing too little!” from another.

Identify what type you have. For the record, I have Proro.

I know that all too well I'm afraid! I will definitely work to acquire a microscope as well as my plan of action. Any personal recommended scopes without making my wallet jump out and run away? Lol

 

[Kellie in CA]

I grabbed one in the Amazon Warehouse for like $20. Not fancy, but good enough to get an ID.

 

[Pyrogens]

I grabbed one in the Amazon Warehouse for like $20. Not fancy, but good enough to get an ID.

I will have to check there and maybe a supply house out here that sells scientific equipment.

 

[Lps_lover12]

I had Prorocentrum and beat it by dosing silicates, adding pods and dosing live phyto each day. Personally I strongly disagree with blackouts for Dino’s as I don’t think it does anything. Just makes them go away until they come back. They truly are a real pain to get rid of once you get them.

 

[Lps_lover12]

I know that all too well I'm afraid! I will definitely work to acquire a microscope as well as my plan of action. Any personal recommended scopes without making my wallet jump out and run away? Lol

I just got one of the cheap ones off Amazon, think it was around $60 and it works good for me, their nice to have not only for Dino’s but just to identify mysterious things in your tank and check stuff out!

 

[Pyrogens]

I had Prorocentrum and beat it by dosing silicates, adding pods and dosing live phyto each day. Personally I strongly disagree with blackouts for Dino’s as I don’t think it does anything. Just makes them go away until they come back. They truly are a real pain to get rid of once you get them.

I just got one of the cheap ones off Amazon, think it was around $60 and it works good for me, their nice to have not only for Dino’s but just to identify mysterious things in your tank and check stuff out!

Good information to have! Exactly the kind of thing I keep seeing is steps on different strains that go outside the other methods and some see success, and others don't.

 

[RobbieMaynard]

I understand, its these fun times in reefing that make it worthwhile right? Joking aside, I've also had a few conversations with veteran reefers regarding Dino's and the one fun standout I see lately with their commentary is that they all disagree with the 0ppm Phosphates and 0ppm Nitrates are the cause because that is what everyone strived for back 8+ years ago, especially SPS tanks and there was no Dino's to be found?

I have to agree. I kept tanks 20 years ago. Aimed for zero zero and never had a Dino issue. The one significant variable this time around is that I started my newer tanks with dead rock instead of live. My numbers never came remotely close to zero, but I’ve been battling them since November. Tried just about everything, H202, silicate dosing, phyto, pods, dosed MB7 and Live Rock enhance, UV (wasn’t effective with what I had, LCA) plus twice a week I did recycled water changes through a filter sock. I get them on the sand. But as of a few weeks ago I’m starting to see a change. Finally starting seeing some green algae in sand bed. My advice, hang in there. It takes time to run its course. Id also recommend grabbing that microscope to get an ID. There are some species that spend most of their time in the water column. If you have those an UV might be effective. Also don’t know if he makes a dent in them but I have a conch who is constantly cleaning sand. Plus whenever I see signs on the rocks I blow them off an turn on nutrient transport on power head to hopefully get them into the filter floss, which I’ve been changing often.

 

[Pyrogens]

I have to agree. I kept tanks 20 years ago. Aimed for zero zero and never had a Dino issue. The one significant variable this time around is that I started my newer tanks with dead rock instead of live. My numbers never came remotely close to zero, but I’ve been battling them since November. Tried just about everything, H202, silicate dosing, phyto, pods, dosed MB7 and Live Rock enhance, UV (wasn’t effective with what I had, LCA) plus twice a week I did recycled water changes through a filter sock. I get them on the sand. But as of a few weeks ago I’m starting to see a change. Finally starting seeing some green algae in sand bed. My advice, hang in there. It takes time to run its course. Id also recommend grabbing that microscope to get an ID. There are some species that spend most of their time in the water column. If you have those an UV might be effective. Also don’t know if he makes a dent in them but I have a conch who is constantly cleaning sand. Plus whenever I see signs on the rocks I blow them off an turn on nutrient transport on power head to hopefully get them into the filter floss, which I’ve been changing often.

Yeah, seems to be pretty universal for alot of the 10+ years ago reefers on Dino's and not seeing them even when targeting undetectable levels. I've thought about modifying my strategy a bit and throwing an Aquaclear 500 off the side full of filter floss and anything I miss via siphon, will hopefully end up in the floss. Should be getting in a microscope here in the next couple days as well!

 

[Pyrogens]

Thought I'd give an update. So, life happens and I got tired of barely squeezing enough time in to siphon what I could, so I'm officially going the peroxide route. I have positively ID'd my strain as Ostreopsis. I'll be updating as I go along here for anyone that cares.

Steps taken/to be Taken for 5 Days:
-Blocked out as much Natural Sunlight as Possible Entering Room
-Siphoned out and Blasted off as much Dino's I could see
-Put in Service AC500 with Filter Floss + Carbon
-Did First Dose of 20mL for Roughly 200G Total Capacity of Microbacter7
-Shut Skimmer Down for 4 Hours of Initial Dose of Microbacter7
-First dose of H202 Tonight roughly 4 Hours after M7 Dose and Resume Skimmer Operations
-Lighting Schedule Changed to 0% Reds, Greens, Whites & Violets; All Blues @ 10% for 5 Hours Daily

This schedule will follow the same procedure each day, including putting new filter floss each day as well and skimmer cup cleaning. Will only be topping off and feeding as usual.

 

[Pyrogens]

Day 3 Update:

Just did my 3rd dose tonight, and taking peeks at the rockwork, the dino's are still attached to the rockwork, but not nearly as bad. It would appear that this regiment is working so forth, but I won't fully know till the final dose and water change planned. I will be doing a test tomorrow on N03 and Phosphate's to see if anything has changed there.

I've also been digging and digging in my spare time on more information I can absorb, and while I don't think everyone has had success with increasing tank temperature to 82-83F range, there seems to be some logic behind this idea. I have since started bumping tank temp to reach a target of 82.5F-83F to see if this affects anything or not.

On a temperature note, I used to run Halides and T5HO back in the day, and used to run my most successful tank on Halides with a tank temp that always hovered at 83-84F and never even heard or cared about dinoflagellates. Might be a coincidence? Who knows, but I guess its worth a shot.