Three tangs in an IM 40 Fusion

[mauriceaa]

Good day reefers I have a well-established reef with lots of rock, zoa's, Ricordea, soft (small to med), and hard corals (small). Tank is 3 years old (running 2 yrs. w/o issues), just started adding small SPS frags about 6 months ago, all seems well with good growth. Equipment: Tunze comliTne doc skimmer 9001 in spillover rt., MightyJet midsize for return with VCA RFG 1/2 ", AI Nero 3, VorTech 10 for movement, Two Kessil A360X running 12 hours 1-hour ramp up, 1 1/2 ramp down the full is 100/45 20 red 0 green, and in Lt. spillover media basket with carbon, sponges, floss and bio media. Livestock: many red and blue leg crabs, snails, and two nudibranchs (green lettuce), flame, and cleaner shrimp ea. s/m, 1 Mystery wrasse (med), 1African flame back (med), 1 Gem tang (s/m), 1 Purple tang (small),1 Yellow (tang small). The three tangs; Gem 1st added, Purple 2nd, and last was Yellow went through a battle royal for a day or two with each addition, but calmed down and are being neighborly, a small show of hierarchy from time to time, but very minor with no damage, last for about 2-3 seconds at most, have had multiple bouts with Ick and all three have survived with no other issues. The funning thing is they all tend to follow each other around the tank like a pack. The true king of the tank, when he feels like it is African, tough little one one. My Mystery is a cannibal/killer, he has eaten any shrimp I've introduced with the exception of the two mentioned above and hunted down and eaten all three of my Catalina gobies (really ticked me off) I loved the Catalina's. I have on order which has taken months with no luck a pair (ea) of Spotcinctus and black storm clowns (relax) I'm only adding one of the pairs whichever comes first at this point. Also lost my 4 line wrasse no clue why very healthy/fat dominant one day, died the next, maybe my favorite fish will replace at any cost, but have been told to forget about it collection for this fish is closed. With all that out of the way the question? I've been told that my setup is going to have major problems in the future with having those three tangs in a small tank, would like to get feedback on this possible issue??? Thanks for the replys.

 

[zukihara]

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

Regarding tank sizes for tangs (or any fish really), you'll find lots of opinions. I recently posted an article where I *try* to make the issue more objective. I can't say that this is the "last word" on the topic, but it's what I follow:

Estimating the Need for Swimming Space for Aquarium Fishes

This article explores required aquarium sizes for marine fishes

www.reef2reef.com

Jay

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

I do not roll hard with the Tang police as far as numbers but definitely think a 23x16 display area is way too small for one tang much less 3.

 

[Tamberav]

If you love catalinas then you should not be adding them to your tropical tank. This will ultimately lead to a premature death.

I have two of them for 4 years now and not slowing down....in a tank at 55 degrees F. They are temperate water fish. Clearly long lived when kept properly.

4 lines and mystery wrasses may fight. These are not play nice wrasses... they are territorial. It’s possible your other wrasse killed it.

Tangs grow large and get meaner as they grow.

So let’s recap:
Gem Tang
Purple Tang
Yellow Tang
Mystery wrasse
Flameback angel

want to add:
pair of clowns
4 line wrasse

That’s 8 fish in a 24x20x19 space with several growing to 5 inches and big bodied. All of them semi aggressive when older.

It’s probably time to upgrade to perhaps a 90g with preferably something larger.

 

[Saltyreef]

 

[mauriceaa]

Please be more helpful, I get the shocked reply, they seem very calm and peaceful like I said at this point what I would like to know are the issues, I understand the tight quarters. But I see reefer with yes much bigger tanks, but with a huge quantity of fish of all types with many tangs and of same gene type, proportionally I'm less crowded than they are and they have much older fish which tend to be more territorial and aggressive???

 

[zukihara]

Please be more helpful, I get the shocked reply, they seem very calm and peaceful like I said at this point what I would like to know are the issues, I understand the tight quarters. But I see reefer with yes much bigger tanks, but with a huge quantity of fish of all types with many tangs and of same gene type, proportionally I'm less crowded than they are and they have much older fish which tend to be more territorial and aggressive???

Well, you have chosen like the absolute worst thing you can do with $1k worth of fish in that they are cramped and generally hate each already. I honestly thought this was a sarcastic post.

a 40g for 3 tangs is not tight quarters, it is like shoving a turkey in a toaster oven. Proportion is not the issue, it is the lack of swimming room for one tang, much less 3 that will be mortal enemies.

 

[Lost in the Sauce]

But I see reefer with yes much bigger tanks, but with a huge quantity of fish of all types with many tangs and of same gene type, proportionally I'm less crowded than they are

I'm not sure how this math works out for proportionality.

Have you seen a healthy Tang school with max 24" free swim space?

 

[BadPanda]

I have a nuvo 40 as well and I don't think three tangs would be well. I have a 1.5" baby yellow eye kole and I think my tank is not enough. Also, as people mentioned these fish are territorial. With three tangs, you might as well set up a pay per view for the (tang) MMA fight. You may be able to get away with one bristletooth tang but that's about it.

 

[Pico bam]

Let's just say there going to need a bigger tank in the future, very possibly the near future. I'm waiting on the tang police here..... if there tiny tangs (lol) i don't really see much of a problem with it. But like I said your likely gonna have to upgrade that tank!

 

[CavalierReef]

I'm almost speechless. Did you get any advice from the LFS that sold you these fish or did you buy on-line? In the 3 years you have had this tank running, have you done any research on fish compatibility, tank size requirements/recommendations? I'm with other posters that this is a recipe for disaster, certainly in the long term. Are you able to upgrade to a much larger tank soon or rehome some of your fish? Something you might want to consider.

 

[mauriceaa]

If you love catalinas then you should not be adding them to your tropical tank. This will ultimately lead to a premature death.

I have two of them for 4 years now and not slowing down....in a tank at 55 degrees F. They are temperate water fish. Clearly long lived when kept properly.

4 lines and mystery wrasses may fight. These are not play nice wrasses... they are territorial. It’s possible your other wrasse killed it.

3 tangs in a 24x20.. I had two in something similar for observation only and I can’t imagine keeping them in such a tank for more then a few months. They will get meaner as they grow.

So let’s recap:
Gem Tang
Purple Tang
Yellow Tang
Mystery wrasse
Flameback angel

want to add:
pair of clowns
4 line wrasse

That’s 8 fish in a 24x20x19 space with several growing to 5 inches and big bodied. All of them semi aggressive when older.

If you love catalinas then you should not be adding them to your tropical tank. This will ultimately lead to a premature death.

I have two of them for 4 years now and not slowing down....in a tank at 55 degrees F. They are temperate water fish. Clearly long lived when kept properly.

4 lines and mystery wrasses may fight. These are not play nice wrasses... they are territorial. It’s possible your other wrasse killed it.

3 tangs in a 24x20.. I had two in something similar for observation only and I can’t imagine keeping them in such a tank for more then a few months. They will get meaner as they grow.

So let’s recap:
Gem Tang
Purple Tang
Yellow Tang
Mystery wrasse
Flameback angel

want to add:
pair of clowns
4 line wrasse

That’s 8 fish in a 24x20x19 space with several growing to 5 inches and big bodied. All of them semi aggressive when older.

It’s probably time to upgrade to a minimum 90g with preferably something larger.

Tanks you for your feedback, I had multiple Catalina's in my 225 for many years and never had an issue (no chiller and running multiple metal halides with blues) without premature death, sold them when I went down to 15 gals, years ago, then acquired the three I was speaking of and transferred them to the current 40, I did install a chiller but was not worth the hassle and maintenance, saw no improvement and even less coral health and growth gave it away after one year, no issues with them in the following two years, eating like pigs with fantastic color, until Mystery decided to go cannibal not really I guess, but you know what I mean, he was also smaller and well-controlled by four-line, which was larger more aggressive/dominant, and the aggression was very very rare only at feeding and it was more a fight for food than with each other, (together all three years) so there is very little chance that in one evening with no visual signs of trauma to 4 line that the inferior/smaller Mystery could kill it. Also, this population had the black storms (which failed from Ick), which was surprising since they have a much thicker slime coat than the other fish in the tank and were the only fatalities during the breakouts??

If you love catalinas then you should not be adding them to your tropical tank. This will ultimately lead to a premature death.

I have two of them for 4 years now and not slowing down....in a tank at 55 degrees F. They are temperate water fish. Clearly long lived when kept properly.

4 lines and mystery wrasses may fight. These are not play nice wrasses... they are territorial. It’s possible your other wrasse killed it.

Tangs grow large and get meaner as they grow.

So let’s recap:
Gem Tang
Purple Tang
Yellow Tang
Mystery wrasse
Flameback angel

want to add:
pair of clowns
4 line wrasse

That’s 8 fish in a 24x20x19 space with several growing to 5 inches and big bodied. All of them semi aggressive when older.

It’s probably time to upgrade to perhaps a 90g with preferably something larger.

 

[mauriceaa]

Well, you have chosen like the absolute worst thing you can do with $1k worth of fish in that they are cramped and generally hate each already. I honestly thought this was a sarcastic post.

a 40g for 3 tangs is not tight quarters, it is like shoving a turkey in a toaster oven. Proportion is not the issue, it is the lack of swimming room for one tang, much less 3 that will be mortal enemies.

Is that to come, at present, they are very easy going with each other and very active swimming and picking at rock and sand with almost no interest in other tangs this is about 70% present of time the rest is spent in the weird schooling behavior (not fighting). I understand the fact that they are high metabolism fish and on the aggressive side. I also know that most animals in captivity adjust to environments in which they are kept and develop an adjustment (size) to the living environment, whether that shortens their long-term life span IDK? At present they are healthy, fat, eating fantastic and with great coloration and fin development. I would also never let them or any fish/animal fight to the point of harm or death, at that point I would remove and give away the specimen(s) in question.

 

[mauriceaa]

Is that to come, at present, they are very easy going with each other and very active swimming and picking at rock and sand with almost no interest in other tangs this is about 70% present of time the rest is spent in the weird schooling behavior (not fighting). I understand the fact that they are high metabolism fish and on the aggressive side. I also know that most animals in captivity adjust to environments in which they are kept and develop an adjustment (size) to the living environment, whether that shortens their long-term life span IDK? At present they are healthy, fat, eating fantastic and with great coloration and fin development. I would also never let them or any fish/animal fight to the point of harm or death, at that point I would remove and give away the specimen(s) in question.

 

[Tamberav]

You likely had ich due to overcrowding related stress. The wrasses will still likely fight as they age.

Almost any fish when small is peaceful. These fish have long life spans... 10 years probably for the wrasse and 20-30 for Tangs.

I would consider any catalina goby in a tropical tank an exception with many living shorter life spans. This is the reason you can not find them in many home tanks. It is not that people dont buy or try them... they just only last around 2-3 years on average when not under ideal temps.

Surviving is not thriving.

You had several fish die... some would consider that a failure if the death was anything but old age.

 

[Tamberav]

Is that to come, at present, they are very easy going with each other and very active swimming and picking at rock and sand with almost no interest in other tangs this is about 70% present of time the rest is spent in the weird schooling behavior (not fighting). I understand the fact that they are high metabolism fish and on the aggressive side. I also know that most animals in captivity adjust to environments in which they are kept and develop an adjustment (size) to the living environment they are kept in, whether that shortens their long-term life span IDK? At present they are healthy, fat, eating fantastic and with great coloration and fin development.

Just use some critical thinking... watch these fish in the wild and look at the size of adults. The answer should become clear regardless of what you are seeing now.

 

[mauriceaa]

Let's just say there going to need a bigger tank in the future, very possibly the near future. I'm waiting on the tang police here..... if there tiny tangs (lol) i don't really see much of a problem with it. But like I said your likely gonna have to upgrade that tank!

Thank you, that fair and I understand this and will adjust the specimen(s) or tank as needed.

 

[Pico bam]

Thank you, that fair and I understand this and will adjust the specimen(s) or tank as needed.

Your welcome

 

[dvgyfresh]

Can we get a pic of the tank?