Tidal carlson surge display
- Thread starter SeymourDuncan
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Yea I heard about the sea world labs, not such a secret lol.
I know a ton of places use carlsons, ive seen some giant sized ones as well. I have done Aquaponic setups for greenhouses that are setup the way Im doing to tank room. Substitute the plants for corals and Im set!
I know a ton of places use carlsons, ive seen some giant sized ones as well. I have done Aquaponic setups for greenhouses that are setup the way Im doing to tank room. Substitute the plants for corals and Im set!
Im sure that someone out there will ask, "why dont you do a bell siphon to save space?"
And i have 2 reasons. 1) the plumbing that came with the tank is epoxied to the bottom...which sucks because there are unnecessary elbows that restrict my flow. The pvc is positioned too close to the back wall for a bell.
2) the top of the siphon would stick out too far for me to put a lid on. Since i want a power head blasting the water when it gets low, i will have alot of salt spray. This will help keep my lights clean.
And i have 2 reasons. 1) the plumbing that came with the tank is epoxied to the bottom...which sucks because there are unnecessary elbows that restrict my flow. The pvc is positioned too close to the back wall for a bell.
2) the top of the siphon would stick out too far for me to put a lid on. Since i want a power head blasting the water when it gets low, i will have alot of salt spray. This will help keep my lights clean.
bige
Valuable Member
I would only use a Carlson. While there are other options, the Carlson has no moving parts and feeds with gravity. So I think you made the perfect choice. But how big is your drain pipe? I believe no less than 2" is recommended to keep up with water coming in compared to water going out.
The pipe is 1 inch, and the return pipe is not going to be as fast as I would normally use. (TIDAL not TIDAL WAVE TANK lol)
I Do use 2inch on my surge buckets and a fast pump, but this is not supposed to be a very fast surge. I want the corals to have time to have sufficient time for water exchange, besides at night when the surges stop and they are sumberged. Plus its all I had to work with on the budget plan I have on this tank. ZERO DOLLARs. Im just recycling crap from my basement and this tank as i experiment. If someone knows how to disolve epoxy without melting pvc, then I could upgrade the pipe size if i reallly want a faster surge. Also this is a GLASS aquarium. SO the slow surges will be much safer. I Am reinforcing the silicone seals for assurance, plus my tang ate about every part he could reach with his little beak, i had nightmares he was going to munching silicone one day and the tank just explodes. no more tangs! My puffer cant fit his head in a corner to save his life
Also, the sump is going to contain a 3ft wide turf scrubber "waterfall" basically a piece of acrylic that go from one end to another with course sand glued to it. (I like sand better than the plastic Craft Grid stuff, i always rip it to shreds rather than rough it up somehow). The sand also is natural and has more surface area and the scrubbers work well with surges. Will replace protein skimmer completely and no need for any filtration besides a sock if i really want to, but the algae scrubbers I have used in the past pretty much absorb everything, even fish.
I am also going to make a very small scale to test the zoas and see how they react, this will also be documented on this thread. probably just do it in a previously built surge bucket for ease of plumbing.
Im really excited about this build, I am moving in about 2 months or less, so bare with me. I have a whole Frag room and a 150g to move 8 blocks, Luckily. I will also do a thread on how I approach that as well. Only problems I have are Water storage containers. I have to transport about 400 gallons of water, so I am trying to find some free or dirt cheap Containers So I am not Carrying jugs out the wahoo.
I Do use 2inch on my surge buckets and a fast pump, but this is not supposed to be a very fast surge. I want the corals to have time to have sufficient time for water exchange, besides at night when the surges stop and they are sumberged. Plus its all I had to work with on the budget plan I have on this tank. ZERO DOLLARs. Im just recycling crap from my basement and this tank as i experiment. If someone knows how to disolve epoxy without melting pvc, then I could upgrade the pipe size if i reallly want a faster surge. Also this is a GLASS aquarium. SO the slow surges will be much safer. I Am reinforcing the silicone seals for assurance, plus my tang ate about every part he could reach with his little beak, i had nightmares he was going to munching silicone one day and the tank just explodes. no more tangs! My puffer cant fit his head in a corner to save his life
Also, the sump is going to contain a 3ft wide turf scrubber "waterfall" basically a piece of acrylic that go from one end to another with course sand glued to it. (I like sand better than the plastic Craft Grid stuff, i always rip it to shreds rather than rough it up somehow). The sand also is natural and has more surface area and the scrubbers work well with surges. Will replace protein skimmer completely and no need for any filtration besides a sock if i really want to, but the algae scrubbers I have used in the past pretty much absorb everything, even fish.
I am also going to make a very small scale to test the zoas and see how they react, this will also be documented on this thread. probably just do it in a previously built surge bucket for ease of plumbing.
Im really excited about this build, I am moving in about 2 months or less, so bare with me. I have a whole Frag room and a 150g to move 8 blocks, Luckily. I will also do a thread on how I approach that as well. Only problems I have are Water storage containers. I have to transport about 400 gallons of water, so I am trying to find some free or dirt cheap Containers So I am not Carrying jugs out the wahoo.
MattL22
Valuable Member
Very cool seems simple which is the best part only question is wouldn't u want ur sps corals to get the surge of water coming into the display ? This one seems to pull x amount of gallons out of display then slowly refill till process repeats?
Will the sudden surge of water being flushed out of display be same as a surge that flushes water into display ?
Will the sudden surge of water being flushed out of display be same as a surge that flushes water into display ?
Excellent Question, Let me explain what will Go on in theory during one full cycle, starting with the return Pump. (this will be the basic layout not including baffles, or any technical jargon for ease of reading. The tech stuff can and will eventually be explained)
FIRST THE STRUCTURE
Return Pump will send water up to Display from the Sump. The return line is placed @ lowest water level in the Display in the form of a Spray bar, (hole size yet determined). Lowest Water level is 1/3rd from the top of the tank. Max level is 2 inches from the top
A power head will be placed just below the lowest water level pointing Slightly downward. (definitely one with a magnet as suction cups will fall off. Possibly even superglue it on)
The Display tank will be set up from right to left as a hill, the peak covering the surge pipe. This will serve as the top of the reef and house the zoanthids. The rocks will also sever as a bubble trap, to keep maximum suction. The tank will be Bare Bottom.
The Tank Drains onto the ATS and back into the sump to be heated/cooled/what ever, it will have a DSB of 8 inches for a conch and Detritus will settle on the sand.
Then Back to the pump.
NOW THE ACTIONS
Upon plugging in the return pump, the spray bar will blast water into the tank. @ the same time the powerhead will be blasting air and water into the tank until the water goes up an inch or so
The tank will fill up at a slow rate like a calm ocean wave coming in. The power head will only be moving water at this point.
When the tank is full, the siphon will take (estimate) 1/4 the time to drain as it does to fill. This with the power head keeps the DOCS mixed in the water to feed corals and get sucked up by the drain at a decent rate. @ the same time never allowing settling of Detritus.
The surge will be drained onto the ATS and into the sump, Filling up until the surge is over to be drained again into the Display.
I hope this will help understand. Ask away if not, i can describe each aspect in detail if need be.
(I plan on putting all the pumps on their own power strip so I can press one Button to stop it all) The FEEDING button.
MattL22
Valuable Member
I understand how its gonna work I'm just wondering if the surge of the water leaving the display will be as beneficial as if u where using a bucket or tank above the display so the surge actually goes into the display? The way u have it correct me if I'm wrong but the surge goes into sump?
Yes, the surge is expelled over the ATS into the Sump. The function of a surge bucket is to stir up the water in the display tank, only changing the water level to the lowest level of the overflow. No rock is ever exposed to air.
The function of this tank is more for mimicking environment. With an Algae Turf Scrubber (google them if you are not familiar with them) A surge of water is more beneficial than a constant flow and I feel that the Surging from the DT will Do great on the Scrubber.
As far as beneficial, they both have advantages. The surge bucket above makes for great movement of water and stirs up detritus like no other (I use them myself).
This Tank will not have the surge in tank. It will be a calm tidal change and the turbulence is cause by the powerhead.
Unless you have a specially designed sump, you CANNOT USE A PROTEIN SKIMMER ON EITHER SETUP DUE TO FLUCTUATION IN WATER LEVEL (now research skimmers vs Scrubbers, its a fair game)
The thing about water movement is it has to happen Somewhere, whether it is in the tank or in the sump, as long as the water is getting moved quickly.
THE ONLY OBSTACLE I AM AFRAID OF
Surface Crud. I guarantee there will be a film on the surface of my tank since there is no overflow box, and in no way is it possible to incorporate. I will have to rely on surface agitation from a possible second powerhead. I can either position this low like the other one or up at the top and connect it to a float switch in tank...ugly. Another option is adding an air pump and sticking the hose just below the surface to agitate it. Idk, That road is a few miles away
With my sand, rock, and turf scrubber, I do not think water quality will be an issue, especially with the aerobic bacteria that will form on the upper crest
The function of this tank is more for mimicking environment. With an Algae Turf Scrubber (google them if you are not familiar with them) A surge of water is more beneficial than a constant flow and I feel that the Surging from the DT will Do great on the Scrubber.
As far as beneficial, they both have advantages. The surge bucket above makes for great movement of water and stirs up detritus like no other (I use them myself).
This Tank will not have the surge in tank. It will be a calm tidal change and the turbulence is cause by the powerhead.
Unless you have a specially designed sump, you CANNOT USE A PROTEIN SKIMMER ON EITHER SETUP DUE TO FLUCTUATION IN WATER LEVEL (now research skimmers vs Scrubbers, its a fair game)
The thing about water movement is it has to happen Somewhere, whether it is in the tank or in the sump, as long as the water is getting moved quickly.
THE ONLY OBSTACLE I AM AFRAID OF
Surface Crud. I guarantee there will be a film on the surface of my tank since there is no overflow box, and in no way is it possible to incorporate. I will have to rely on surface agitation from a possible second powerhead. I can either position this low like the other one or up at the top and connect it to a float switch in tank...ugly. Another option is adding an air pump and sticking the hose just below the surface to agitate it. Idk, That road is a few miles away
With my sand, rock, and turf scrubber, I do not think water quality will be an issue, especially with the aerobic bacteria that will form on the upper crest
Great read..Great Job.. tons of info..looking forward to seeing this in action
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone 4S using Tapatalk
Ok, So I had some time to tinker. I finally removed the tank from the cement ledge and placed it on the stand. Out of all things holy, The stand of which was homemade By someone who previously owned the tank ACTUALLY FIT A 55 Gallon Trashcan underneath it.
I now (With plans currently being carved to move in october) have a 75 gallon tank set up on my front porch.
I was using it to display Live rock and figured why not make the live rock display surging, plus I will have a place to sell my koi during my yard sale. (I sell live rock that is sundried white and The tank is straight hose water. No aptasia there!!!)
Well I filled up the tank, video taped that, let me tell you..that was boring. When the water reached the siphon tube I had to walk my dog. So afterwards I filled it the rest of the way. It didn't siphon. Turns out its got a mass of something gross in one of the stupid elbows. I am probably going to just replace the whole thing if My neighbor can get the epoxy off, if he can't nobody can.
At least I got the Filling Documented! I am betting that its a dead mollie or something, I got a batch that did not acclimate at all. I think they had platy blood, I traded anthelia for them, not too worried.
In the meantime I am locating a pump to run this with. When its finalized I will use my return from my main system so im going for dirt cheap or borrowed.
My favorite thing I forgot to mention earlier.
KMART sells 8 dollar ALL PLASTIC sprinklers. I am going to test some anthelia In the same water as the sprinkler to see if it has ill effects first, but if it works It will make a great spray bar. IT has an angle control.
I am going to epoxy it to the glass and plumb str8 through the glass via Bulkhead in the final product. I really want this tank air tight for salt spray containment, the o2 exchange is all in the ATS.
(I have a quarantined batch I use as LAB RATS. If they die in an experiment, I know I need to change gears)
I didnt want to post the videos until it actually surged, so I will hold off until i clean out the plumbing. I blew from the bottom of the drain hose and there was a cloud of nobody smell it seeping out of the surge pipe :/ anyone need some bacteria booster??? lol
"We sell Detritus and Skimmate to BOOST YOUR AMMONIA, Finally making use of all those Chemicals that when mixed incorrectly can instantly Blind a whole flock of Eagles."
I now (With plans currently being carved to move in october) have a 75 gallon tank set up on my front porch.
I was using it to display Live rock and figured why not make the live rock display surging, plus I will have a place to sell my koi during my yard sale. (I sell live rock that is sundried white and The tank is straight hose water. No aptasia there!!!)
Well I filled up the tank, video taped that, let me tell you..that was boring. When the water reached the siphon tube I had to walk my dog. So afterwards I filled it the rest of the way. It didn't siphon. Turns out its got a mass of something gross in one of the stupid elbows. I am probably going to just replace the whole thing if My neighbor can get the epoxy off, if he can't nobody can.
At least I got the Filling Documented! I am betting that its a dead mollie or something, I got a batch that did not acclimate at all. I think they had platy blood, I traded anthelia for them, not too worried.
In the meantime I am locating a pump to run this with. When its finalized I will use my return from my main system so im going for dirt cheap or borrowed.
My favorite thing I forgot to mention earlier.
KMART sells 8 dollar ALL PLASTIC sprinklers. I am going to test some anthelia In the same water as the sprinkler to see if it has ill effects first, but if it works It will make a great spray bar. IT has an angle control.
I am going to epoxy it to the glass and plumb str8 through the glass via Bulkhead in the final product. I really want this tank air tight for salt spray containment, the o2 exchange is all in the ATS.
(I have a quarantined batch I use as LAB RATS. If they die in an experiment, I know I need to change gears)
I didnt want to post the videos until it actually surged, so I will hold off until i clean out the plumbing. I blew from the bottom of the drain hose and there was a cloud of nobody smell it seeping out of the surge pipe :/ anyone need some bacteria booster??? lol
"We sell Detritus and Skimmate to BOOST YOUR AMMONIA, Finally making use of all those Chemicals that when mixed incorrectly can instantly Blind a whole flock of Eagles."
I tried that. It was very hard to blow 8ftme of water through a clogged pipe so i didnt get very far.
I did have a pufferfish stuck in the pipe 6 months ago who i rescued by blowing him out of the overflow, he shot out like a cannon (imagine a launched valentini). He survived luckily and didnt puff in the tube.
Im getting a plumbing snake to fix it, i need one for my sink anyway.
Today im giving the realtors my earnest money check and have some impotante things to get done. Probly be tonight when i get around to it.
OK! So I am transplanting my koi pond to my new house. I have to use the Tidal Surge as a Temp house for the Calico Carp.
I have a 1900gph little giant pond pump powering it on half mast.
My live rock is still in it, so That kinda sucks, but at the same time makes sure there are no saltwater critters period I guess. Either way, I am stuck in the middle of a move now so the thread may be on hold. I did get the pipe unclogged however, so thats a step forward. It doest surge at the rate the water is entering until i turn off the pump, so I know now I need a smaller pump, or partial flow from this one since I will eventually have it on my whole system.
I have a 1900gph little giant pond pump powering it on half mast.
My live rock is still in it, so That kinda sucks, but at the same time makes sure there are no saltwater critters period I guess. Either way, I am stuck in the middle of a move now so the thread may be on hold. I did get the pipe unclogged however, so thats a step forward. It doest surge at the rate the water is entering until i turn off the pump, so I know now I need a smaller pump, or partial flow from this one since I will eventually have it on my whole system.
This would have been sweet but my new home's basement was just too small for it. So sucky. I have to rebuild the plan. We plan on moving to the ocean sometime in the next couple years so I don't know how soon it will be. I'm young by the time I'm ready there may be cooler toys to add to it
by the time I'm ready there may be cooler toys to add to it
