Time for nopox?

[Uncle99]

Set a reasonable target say 5ppm. Continue to dose the amount and check nitrate every two days.
In a week, if no change, increase by 0.5ml, test.......at one point.....you will notice a reduction in nitrate.
At this point, do not increase, but keep up the daily dose.
Carbon dose helps to manage nitrates, just small changes, up or down and over weeks.
Once you have your nitrates to where you want them, back off 0.5ml and keep watch.
We want to stabilize the nitrate.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Set a reasonable target say 5ppm. Continue to dose the amount and check nitrate every two days.
In a week, if no change, increase by 0.5ml, test.......at one point.....you will notice a reduction in nitrate.
At this point, do not increase, but keep up the daily dose.
Carbon dose helps to manage nitrates, just small changes, up or down and over weeks.
Once you have your nitrates to where you want them, back off 0.5ml and keep watch.
We want to stabilize the nitrate.

Thank you! I’ll do just that!

 

[csb123]

I love NOPOX, but don’t buy the brand name stuff.

Do a search on here for DIY NOPOX

 

[Uncle99]

Just be real careful if you make your own, and, you need to make it exactly the same concentration every time.
That’s the only reason I use the brand....always the same...

 

[Caseyoidae]

I think I’ll stick with just vinegar now so I don’t over complicate things. Thanks!

 

[Caseyoidae]

My next project is to figure out how to bring down a bucket of instant ocean alk with acid. Lol

 

[Caseyoidae]

My phos just tested 0 on Hannah ulr checker. I’m assuming with the margin of error and the very small amount of cyano and algal film on the glass that it’s probably slightly higher. Fed some frozen and roids just to be safe. Alks at 9Dkh and nitrate is around 20. Will vinegar dosing have effect on phosphate? I’m only at 1ml per day.

 

[Caseyoidae]

@Uncle99 phosphate tested 0 two days in a row. Should I stop my 1 ml daily vinager dose? I fed heavy last night and still nothing.

 

[mrrtheory]

@Uncle99 phosphate tested 0 two days in a row. Should I stop my 1 ml daily vinager dose? I fed heavy last night and still nothing.

Starting and stopping carbon dosing is not recommended IMO. Its a systemic thing that you either do or do not do, unlike something like lanthium chloride. The vinegar is not directly reducing the P04 as far as I know. You are culturing a bio mass that is going to do it for you. It takes some time to build a bio mass. Also, someone else needs to chime in here but 1 ml of vinegar is not likely the cause of the low P04. Vinegar requires that you get up to a fairly large dose compared to something like Nopox from my experience.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Maybe my reduced feedings to lower nitrate also lowered po4? I was thinking 1ml is an extremely small dose daily. I guess what I’m trying to figure out is how to lower nitrate a bit (20ppm Right now) without lowering p04. Several water changes got it down a little. (Probably po4 also) Maybe I’ll just keep up on water changes and my “therapeutic vinegar dose” And gradually continue upping the dose like uncle suggested. I know Sps tanks can run that high but it’s not recommended. That is why I’d like to lower it. Thanks!

 

[ReefGeezer]

I can't imagine that 1 ml/day dropped 9 ppb to 0 in a few days. Some of that drop could be binding on substrate or by the film algae/cyano you mentioned. Some could be testing error.

Vinegar (acetic acid) is just not very carbon rich as compared to vodka or (I assume) NoPox. It took 25-30ml/day of vinegar to be effective in my 75. Carbon dosing binds some phosphate and your system can be (and may be at this point) phosphate limited. At that point. nitrate reduction slows substantially or stops.

Reef Roids is very high in Phosphate. You could use that to raise phosphate in your system. Just be careful not to overfeed in the process.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Thanks! I’m using Hannah ulr checker. I’ve only been at it with vinager a few days. Before that I had biopellet reactor that was just to “iffy” for me. Some of my corals are responding very well to my lowering of alk. Down to 8.8 from 12.1 over 2 weeks.should I keep it at 1ml a day for bacterial growth for a while until everything stabilizes?

 

[ReefGeezer]

Thanks! I’m using Hannah ulr checker. I’ve only been at it with vinager a few days. Before that I had biopellet reactor that was just to “iffy” for me. Some of my corals are responding very well to my lowering of alk. Down to 8.8 from 12.1 over 2 weeks.should I keep it at 1ml a day for bacterial growth for a while until everything stabilizes?

Yea. Getting the alk down slowly before increasing the vinegar dose is a great idea. IMO, 7 to 7.5 dKh is a good range when I was carbon dosing. You might read up on vinegar dosing. Randy has a chart in this article: http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium. If I remember correctly, vodka is about 9X more carbon rich than vinegar. Vinegar dosage is therefore much higher.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Thank you! I have read a bunch of Randy’s articles over the years. Great stuff! Alk is dropping at .2 dkh per day with no dosing. Guess I’ll just let it ride down to 7.2- 7.4. My consumption prior to what I now think was bottomed out phosphate Issue was 1 dkh/ day.
Why would one stop carbon dosing? Bacterial load that is large enough to sustain low po4 and no3 so the dosing is gradually tapered off?
Could my skimmer have added to the low po4? Maybe I should go back to 8 hours off during day? What are effects of skimming on po4 and no3? To get my phosphate that high I fed like crazy and had skimmer off 8 hrs a day. Sorry for so many questions

 

[ReefGeezer]

Thank you! I have read a bunch of Randy’s articles over the years. Great stuff! Alk is dropping at .2 dkh per day with no dosing. Guess I’ll just let it ride down to 7.2- 7.4. My consumption prior to what I now think was bottomed out phosphate Issue was 1 dkh/ day.
Why would one stop carbon dosing? Bacterial load that is large enough to sustain low po4 and no3 so the dosing is gradually tapered off?
Could my skimmer have added to the low po4? Maybe I should go back to 8 hours off during day? What are effects of skimming on po4 and no3? To get my phosphate that high I fed like crazy and had skimmer off 8 hrs a day. Sorry for so many questions

The bacteria that are encouraged to grow by carbon dosing stop propagating in the absence of free carbon. In that case, once removed by the skimmer, they are not replaced.

I stopped carbon dosing when the other biomass, corals, sponges, and all that stuff started to use nitrate and phosphate to the point I had to add it back in. I also thought SPS corals might gain some color too.

Turning off the skimmer while carbon dosing is counter productive. In addition, while that might help phosphates, it will also allow nitrates to rise.

Once you get your alk right, adding some phosphate manually might be required to help the carbon dosing process. That is a little more controllable than over feeding.. You will just have to experiment a little.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Thank you ! Any recommendations on po4 additives?
Edit; I found one option. Brightwell Neophos. I’ll order some and give it a try

The bacteria that are encouraged to grow by carbon dosing stop propagating in the absence of free carbon. In that case, once removed by the skimmer, they are not replaced.

I stopped carbon dosing when the other biomass, corals, sponges, and all that stuff started to use nitrate and phosphate to the point I had to add it back in. I also thought SPS corals might gain some color too.

Turning off the skimmer while carbon dosing is counter productive. In addition, while that might help phosphates, it will also allow nitrates to rise.

Once you get your alk right, adding some phosphate manually might be required to help the carbon dosing process. That is a little more controllable than over feeding.. You will just have to experiment a little.

 

[ReefGeezer]

Thank you ! Any recommendations on po4 additives?
Edit; I found one option. Brightwell Neophos. I’ll order some and give it a try

Neophos is fine. You'll need to let the Hanna Checker let you know the dosage rather than the instructions. It's not terribly concentrated though. There are also simple chemicals you could use like Trisodium Phosphate. Make a stock solution and it is cheap and effective.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Thanks for all the help! It’s making sense now

Neophos is fine. You'll need to let the Hanna Checker let you know the dosage rather than the instructions. It's not terribly concentrated though. There are also simple chemicals you could use like Trisodium Phosphate. Make a stock solution and it is cheap and effective.

 

[Caseyoidae]

Do you happen to know a formula for 99.9% food grade Trisodium Phosphate? I can only find a formula measured by the gram and I do not have a scale. I found the calculator on planted tank forum for potassium phosphate in teaspoons. Would this be the same?

In the planted tank photo I used 1893ml=1 gallon. It appears I would use 1ml to raise tank to .03 without taking into account binding. But I would want to start at 50% dose daily to be safe?

 

[ReefGeezer]

2 tablespoons to a gallon of RODI water. I don't know the dosage though. I just add a couple ml and test until I get a positive level showing on my Hanna Checker. Go slow.