Time for the losing my mind rant LOL

[Oldreefer44]

I find that the vast majority of corals for sale are pictured with a bright or deep blue background. Funny that I don't have any blue backgrounds in my tank.As soon as one seller started it then most others had to join in to compete. Now, in my view it has gotten out of hand. Therefore I am now driving 40 miles (one way) to an LFS to see what they will look like in my tank.

 

[Reef2Land]

It's still coral manipulation. The blue spectrums just penetrate the water better. It's like when you see one of those golf courses at the mall and everything glows. The dark actinic color is forcing the zooxanthellae to color up like that and it's based on THAT specific tank. It's changing to match the light. Thing is that just like GLOW GOLF it's the EXACT color of those lights that make the coral look like that. As in someone could try to set their tank at the same color and because it might be a different brand of light it could potentially shift the color back. To me it makes no sense. Keeping corals under only that range of actinic is borderline abuse IMO. Because there's a lot of other spectrums that the tank relies on for other specific needs.

"Hey Man, turn your lights back up. Leave that poor coral alone."

 

[Reef2Land]

But here, we're going to start a new fad. We basically took away the water instead of the light...THAT'S RIGHT!!! This frag sat out back in the sun for a month. We named it the R2L Clorox Snowball and it's $20,000 a frag. We figure in today's reefing industry this is enough to get 11 frags. (this was already dead, don't worry)

 

[Act1n1c_L1fe]

But here, we're going to start a new fad. We basically took away the water instead of the light...THAT'S RIGHT!!! This frag sat out back in the sun for a month. We named it the R2L Clorox Snowball and it's $20,000 a frag. We figure in today's reefing industry this is enough to get 11 frags. (this was already dead, don't worry)

I agree, some corals are crazy overpriced. However, some corals I can agree with high prices to an extent, because of how fast it grows, rarity etc... I understand paying $500 for a mini colony of rainbow jumbo jumbo if it grows a millimeter a month and no one else has it. However paying $500 for a 1/4 inch frag from a colony that grows like wildfire makes no sense. As for coloration from corals in nature, there are actually some pretty colorful ones. Lfs has one that was a gold, rainbow color a few weeks ago from a wild colony ( was only $20 too, I should’ve bought it Lol) but you usually don’t see coloration in the wild because those corals are seen under all whites. If you crank your whites all the way up with nothing else, everything will be brown... keeping coloration is all up to the person with the tank, optimal conditions, stability, dosing trace elements etc... I tend to see best colorations similar to venders when dosing amino acids and keeping nutrients up.... I’ve never spent over $100 on a single frag without trading something for it to get the cost down. I grow high end zoas out, frag em and trade.

 

[jda]

I want to make it really clear that I don't care what anybody does with their money... paying taxes and insurance sucks, so if buying a coral makes you happy, then go for it since doing fun things is the best use of your money. It is the misleading stuff that really makes me mad... sizes, colors, photos all play a part for different vendors. If there is a legit coral that is properly advertised and somebody wants to spend $20k on it, then cool... just like spending several hundred thousand dollars on a Ferrari can be cool, but nobody is cool with spending that much on a Ferrari clone made out of a Honda Del Sol or kit car and advertised as the real deal.

FWIW - there is a lot of evidence that just blue will not do good things for corals... I am talking about only in the 440 to 500nm ish range. Most "blue" lights to our eyes, like ATI Blue+, for example, do have lots of other spectrum all the way from probably 380 to 720nm, they just look blue. Some Blue LEDs are the same. All MH have complete spectrum from about 350 to 850nm. This confuses what some people say about blue being enough just because that is all that Jason Fox uses when indeed, he does have full spectrum lighting, it just looks more blue to human eyes than other kinds. If you want to see how just blue can turn out, try some ReefBrite XHOs alone and see what happens.

 

[Act1n1c_L1fe]

I want to make it really clear that I don't care what anybody does with their money... paying taxes and insurance sucks, so if buying a coral makes you happy, then go for it since doing fun things is the best use of your money. It is the misleading stuff that really makes me mad... sizes, colors, photos all play a part for different vendors. If there is a legit coral that is properly advertised and somebody wants to spend $20k on it, then cool... just like spending several hundred thousand dollars on a Ferrari can be cool, but nobody is cool with spending that much on a Ferrari clone made out of a Honda Del Sol or kit car and advertised as the real .

+1

 

[Reef2Land]

I want to make it really clear that I don't care what anybody does with their money... paying taxes and insurance sucks, so if buying a coral makes you happy, then go for it since doing fun things is the best use of your money. It is the misleading stuff that really makes me mad... sizes, colors, photos all play a part for different vendors. If there is a legit coral that is properly advertised and somebody wants to spend $20k on it, then cool... just like spending several hundred thousand dollars on a Ferrari can be cool, but nobody is cool with spending that much on a Ferrari clone made out of a Honda Del Sol or kit car and advertised as the real deal.

Hopefully no one here is coming across like that. I don't care if someone wants to buy a solid gold Patrick Starfish figurine for their tank lol I have a problem with the number of people who come through here that buy these dang corals where the colors are manipulated with light, dye, photoshop or anything else, then the corals go away. There are certain things I want to say about some of the garbage I've seen, but I don't want to seem like I'm calling out those retailers. Bottom line, these dang corals aren't being yanked off a reef looking like that. Most are NORMAL colors that are coming from wholesalers or maybe the wild then they're being thrown into tanks where unnatural conditions are causing them to color up like that. Then people are buying them in hopes they remain those colors and the majority of the time, from what we've seen, they don't. Then again everyone here remembers when Duncans, Acans, and Micromussas were $500 a head and now almost anyone can afford them. But it's because they're rarity was based on the fact there was barely any of them in the industry. Now it's because someone is Lucky Charming THE HECK out of the things in unnatural conditions.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Coral prices have escalated annually since 2016 and until we as consumers stop buying them or paying the prices we shake our head with, it will not stop. We are the ones who drive the prices up by purchasing and SURE CAN BE THE ONES WHO DRIVE THEM DOWN BY SIMPLE DISCIPLINES- NOT PAYING THE PRICES OR ATTENTION TO THESE OVERPRICED/MIS-NAMED PIECES until the vendors get it.

 

[Jinko]

Coral prices have escalated annually since 2016 and until we as consumers stop buying them or paying the prices we shake our head with, it will not stop. We are the ones who drive the prices up by purchasing and SURE CAN BE THE ONES WHO DRIVE THEM DOWN BY SIMPLE DISCIPLINES- NOT PAYING THE PRICES OR ATTENTION TO THESE OVERPRICED/MIS-NAMED PIECES until the vendors get it.

This never works though, wealthy people will pay what they like and average gubbins can't afford to do the same.
It's more to do with the the fact that people want to make a quick buck and taking advantage of others is just a stepping stone in doing that.
It's nothing new and it's not going to go away.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Lfs has one that was a gold, rainbow color a few weeks ago from a wild colony ( was only $20 too, I should’ve bought it Lol) but you usually don’t see coloration in the wild because those corals are seen under all whites. If you crank your whites all the way up with nothing else, everything will be brown... keeping coloration is all up to the person with the tank

White light makes corals brown? some of my favorite tanks were lit with 10k halides and produced amazing colors. Most wild corals that are picked for aquariums are stunning in the ocean too.

 

[Act1n1c_L1fe]

White light makes corals brown? some of my favorite tanks were lit with 10k halides and produced amazing colors. Most wild corals that are picked for aquariums are stunning in the ocean too.

White light makes corals appear brown. When my tank is running all whites only colors I see are brown, blue, or some greens.

 

[SeaDweller]

But here, we're going to start a new fad. We basically took away the water instead of the light...THAT'S RIGHT!!! This frag sat out back in the sun for a month. We named it the R2L Clorox Snowball and it's $20,000 a frag. We figure in today's reefing industry this is enough to get 11 frags. (this was already dead, don't worry)

It just looks a little bleached out, it’ll recover. Just put it under super intense blues!

 

[SeaDweller]

I want to make it really clear that I don't care what anybody does with their money... paying taxes and insurance sucks, so if buying a coral makes you happy, then go for it since doing fun things is the best use of your money. It is the misleading stuff that really makes me mad... sizes, colors, photos all play a part for different vendors. If there is a legit coral that is properly advertised and somebody wants to spend $20k on it, then cool... just like spending several hundred thousand dollars on a Ferrari can be cool, but nobody is cool with spending that much on a Ferrari clone made out of a Honda Del Sol or kit car and advertised as the real deal.

FWIW - there is a lot of evidence that just blue will not do good things for corals... I am talking about only in the 440 to 500nm ish range. Most "blue" lights to our eyes, like ATI Blue+, for example, do have lots of other spectrum all the way from probably 380 to 720nm, they just look blue. Some Blue LEDs are the same. All MH have complete spectrum from about 350 to 850nm. This confuses what some people say about blue being enough just because that is all that Jason Fox uses when indeed, he does have full spectrum lighting, it just looks more blue to human eyes than other kinds. If you want to see how just blue can turn out, try some ReefBrite XHOs alone and see what happens.

I’ve experimented with all blues and things really green out. I had a beautiful deep water that was pure white (naturally) with red polyps turn completely green. A few things did. You’d think that’s all it needed being a “deep water” species, but nope. It’s taken months to get the green to wash out and even then it’s still not truly white yet. With LEDs, you can’t run all blues, you need the white/full spectrum to help color things up. That’s for sure, like you say.

 

[SeaDweller]

White light makes corals appear brown. When my tank is running all whites only colors I see are brown, blue, or some greens.

I see what you mean. Sometimes when you pull corals out of the tank and look at them under normal lighting, they’re brown.

 

[BestMomEver]

I agree that frags are overpriced. I walked around Reefapalooza and couldn’t believe the prices. It’s insane! I don’t have a single frag that cost over $80 and I think my tank is quite beautiful! I also talked to a guy at dinner when at Reefapalooza that wanted to pay $900 for ONE zoa polyp. I told him he’d lost his mind. I could build an entire mixed reef for $900. His wife thanked me.

 

[BestMomEver]

I won't disagree that there are some corals that are made to look over the top through pictures. However, I do think a couple of points could be made here to contribute to this discussion.

1) There was a statement that actinic light can't sustain reef life, but isn't it true that the primary spectrum of lighting needed for photosynthesis is in the blue color range? Also, I'm pretty sure that some of the more popular LFS (ones with crazy displays) keep those tanks under blue lighting pretty much exclusively.

2) The comments about most of corals we see on natural reefs being more neutral/bland colors is certainly true, but that doesn't mean that the multicolored corals you see sold by vendors are faked. As has already been pointed out, a lot of it depends on where the collecting is being done, and it also depends on what the collector is bringing in. If collectors know what sells, you can bet that's what they're looking for (Jason Fox, for example, does much of his own collecting and seeks out stuff that he knows will be popular). So, my point is that the colors vendors can show at these shows are natural (I mean, they aren't being injected into the corals, so they have to be naturally occurring under the right conditions, right?) and also attainable by hobbyists. I've seen plenty of tanks where hobbyists have grown out beautiful colonies of "named" corals, and they're awesome.

3) Anytime, "daylight" or "natural light" is brought up in these discussions, I'm always curious as to what people mean by those terms. IME there's a bit of variance among hobbyists as to what qualifies as "daylight."

I think you’re dead on. Everything living that comes out of the ocean... any ocean.... is natural in my mind. That doesn’t mean you can’t manipulate the color with chemicals and light.

 

[29bonsaireef]

Bottom line, these dang corals aren't being yanked off a reef looking like that. Most are NORMAL colors that are coming from wholesalers or maybe the wild then they're being thrown into tanks where unnatural conditions are causing them to color up like that.

Not necessarily, a lot of these corals really do look like that straight off the reef, if you view them in that lighting that is. I spent multiple summers collecting in Indonesia for the farms, just for fun. I have acquired an eye for what's what while diving, and I can tell you there are corals on the reef that have intense colors, and when you place them under actinic they are even more intense. Straight actinic lighting won't do anything to help further color or improve colors of these corals, it just makes those colors visible. I agree, the editing of photos is too much, and some of the prices are a little insane, but some of the crazy corals you see really do look like that, right out of the ocean. You just don't see them in that lighting when they're on the reef.

 

[minus9]

The whole zoomed in picture of single polyps, extra blue, dark background, crazy name, etc, etc, etc....... ugh! I don't think I've ever paid over $70 -$80 for a frag, I probably will never pay that much.

 

[Jinko]

White light makes corals appear brown. When my tank is running all whites only colors I see are brown, blue, or some greens.

Pinks look better under white light in my opinion.
Brown, pink, blue and green seems fine and mostly natural.

True yellow and reds are pretty much unheard of with coral and these are the colours that are being majorly manipulated lately.
Yellows are destined to turn green and reds go brown or rust coloured, almost anyone can make corals look good with filters and photoshop though given enough time and patience.

 

[MnFish1]

Hopefully no one here is coming across like that. I don't care if someone wants to buy a solid gold Patrick Starfish figurine for their tank lol I have a problem with the number of people who come through here that buy these dang corals where the colors are manipulated with light, dye, photoshop or anything else, then the corals go away. There are certain things I want to say about some of the garbage I've seen, but I don't want to seem like I'm calling out those retailers. Bottom line, these dang corals aren't being yanked off a reef looking like that. Most are NORMAL colors that are coming from wholesalers or maybe the wild then they're being thrown into tanks where unnatural conditions are causing them to color up like that. Then people are buying them in hopes they remain those colors and the majority of the time, from what we've seen, they don't. Then again everyone here remembers when Duncans, Acans, and Micromussas were $500 a head and now almost anyone can afford them. But it's because they're rarity was based on the fact there was barely any of them in the industry. Now it's because someone is Lucky Charming THE HECK out of the things in unnatural conditions.

Perhaps before buying coral one should email the vendor and ask for pictures in various lighting.

If (and I'm sure there are) people adjusting color with photoshop - that seems fraudulent.

Having said both - If you look at my build thread - the colors look distinctly 'blue' - though when I look at it in person it is much 'lighter'. How much is this is intentional deception vs the ability to adequately photograph some of the colors in the tank? I'm asking a serious question -not disagreeing with you. To me it seems that photographing corals is a tricky business. Additionally - many wholesalers - and LFS DO keep their corals under a more extreme blue light than I care for - just on that basis alone - I wouldn't buy them - with the thought that adjusting them to my tank would be difficult.