Time to Talk Real: Photoshop!

[ReefMadScientist]

Hello R2R,

So I have been in this great hobby for over 3 years now, definitely not a pro but not a rookie either, and have a successful SPS/LPS and Anem/Clown tank. I am currently building more tanks and sumps. This was just to give you an idea that I am not some kid just sitting in front of my computer about to go on a rant...because I am not. I have my Business Management degree and started to explore the idea of selling corals.

What has stumped me about selling coral is the MASS amount of people that sell corals who totally use photoshop to enhance the colors of a specified coral. Whenever I sell corals, on eBay or locally, I try to touch up the pictures as in removing blur but I never tamper with the coloration.

So this bring us to the topic...Why do so many vendors, sellers, and so-called hobbyist use Photoshop to enhance the coloration of the corals they are selling? I am not calling out ALL vendors as some on this site DO offer white lighting only which is awesome. But I have seen some coral pieces on here, on eBay, and so on - where the colors are just totally enhanced. I have been the victim before, just starting out, when I saw this insane Rock Anemone that was SUPER WICKED!!! but it turned out to be just a dull brown piece when I received it and placed it under my Hydra's.

Yes, some corals do and can lose their coloration with time but some pieces on the forums, eBay, other forums are just hilariously tampered with.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Chetrod]

I like the Pug Bunny myself where can I get one of them at? LOL

 

[Bulldog357]

I agree! I have made purchases base on photos that are supposed to be wysiwyg and they end up looking nothing like the pictures. I could post photos to prove my point but I don't want to call anyone out on this fantastic forum. There are also vendors that have gorgeous photos that are accurate too.

 

[Waters]

As a business, you have to assume they do it to try and sell more corals and make more money. That being said, you would think they would lose customers and their reputation in the long run.

 

[jokervueboi]

<3 Pugbunny!!!!!!!!

 

[Reef Pets]

As for hobbyist, vendors and so on I think its a trend like everything else in this hobby or possibly a competition. My coral looks better than yours. I paid a small fortune for a dot on a plug so I have to show it off and it better be bright or the bashing begins. Vendors do so to beat out other vendors and hype coral for sales. To photoshop to show what the coral looks like is one thing but some of the pictures shown on here and elsewhere are laughable.
I know as a vendor I probably should not get involved in such conversation but it irritated me to no end as well. I will have the same coral as other vendors and even from the same supplier (I know for a fact) and they enhance the picture so much that it makes the coral glow. They sell theirs for 5 times the amount as I can because I refuse to over saturate. In all, if the hobbyist stop buying into it, the problem will come to an end..

 

[SloppyJ]

This is the main reason I have a hard time buying anything online any more.

 

[Pete polyp]

As for hobbyist, vendors and so on I think its a trend like everything else in this hobby or possibly a competition. My coral looks better than yours. I paid a small fortune for a dot on a plug so I have to show it off and it better be bright or the bashing begins. Vendors do so to beat out other vendors and hype coral for sales. To photoshop to show what the coral looks like is one thing but some of the pictures shown on here and elsewhere are laughable.
I know as a vendor I probably should not get involved in such conversation but it irritated me to no end as well. I will have the same coral as other vendors and even from the same supplier (I know for a fact) and they enhance the picture so much that it makes the coral glow. They sell theirs for 5 times the amount as I can because I refuse to over saturate. In all, if the hobbyist stop buying into it, the problem will come to an end..

Very well said!

 

[Bulldog357]

I certainly won't support vendors who over saturate their coral photos again. I learned my moderately expensive lesson!

As for hobbyist, vendors and so on I think its a trend like everything else in this hobby or possibly a competition. My coral looks better than yours. I paid a small fortune for a dot on a plug so I have to show it off and it better be bright or the bashing begins. Vendors do so to beat out other vendors and hype coral for sales. To photoshop to show what the coral looks like is one thing but some of the pictures shown on here and elsewhere are laughable.
I know as a vendor I probably should not get involved in such conversation but it irritated me to no end as well. I will have the same coral as other vendors and even from the same supplier (I know for a fact) and they enhance the picture so much that it makes the coral glow. They sell theirs for 5 times the amount as I can because I refuse to over saturate. In all, if the hobbyist stop buying into it, the problem will come to an end..

 

[howaboutme]

Just speaking about photography, Photoshop (or any other photo altering software) is used to adjust the photos properties to look like the way it should when viewed with the naked eye (or in this case, how you want it to look). Unfortunately, there are other variables. The most significant is the way our monitors (and printers) show color. Unless we all have calibrated (external with hardware) monitors, we will all see colors differently. Even if you have a calibrated monitor, you will have to calibrate regularly as your monitor will go out of calibration with time. As a side to that we use software to adjust for white balance, brightness contrast, etc to get your photo to look the way you remembered how it looked with your eye (and then some). Unfortunately, this is also the time to take artistic license and alter the photos to make them look more saturated, etc than they really are...What I'm saying is that even if the photos are altered, what you see may not be what the photographer sees anyways. How's that for a curve ball?

 

[ReefMadScientist]

I agree! I have made purchases base on photos that are supposed to be wysiwyg and they end up looking nothing like the pictures. I could post photos to prove my point but I don't want to call anyone out on this fantastic forum. There are also vendors that have gorgeous photos that are accurate too.

I think we all believe you. The issue is a huge problem but its considered "taboo" to talk about it in this hobby.

As a business, you have to assume they do it to try and sell more corals and make more money. That being said, you would think they would lose customers and their reputation in the long run.

Yeah you would think. Some people are too far gone with the Kool-Aid.

As for hobbyist, vendors and so on I think its a trend like everything else in this hobby or possibly a competition. My coral looks better than yours. I paid a small fortune for a dot on a plug so I have to show it off and it better be bright or the bashing begins. Vendors do so to beat out other vendors and hype coral for sales. To photoshop to show what the coral looks like is one thing but some of the pictures shown on here and elsewhere are laughable.
I know as a vendor I probably should not get involved in such conversation but it irritated me to no end as well. I will have the same coral as other vendors and even from the same supplier (I know for a fact) and they enhance the picture so much that it makes the coral glow. They sell theirs for 5 times the amount as I can because I refuse to over saturate. In all, if the hobbyist stop buying into it, the problem will come to an end..

Dude thanks SO MUCH for sharing your thoughts and opinions. As a forum, it is important for everyone, including vendors, to share their thoughts and even their concerns.

This is the main reason I have a hard time buying anything online any more.

You're not alone.

 

[Pete polyp]

Just speaking about photography, Photoshop (or any other photo altering software) is used to adjust the photos properties to look like the way it should when viewed with the naked eye (or in this case, how you want it to look). Unfortunately, there are other variables. The most significant is the way our monitors (and printers) show color. Unless we all have calibrated (external with hardware) monitors, we will all see colors differently. Even if you have a calibrated monitor, you will have to calibrate regularly as your monitor will go out of calibration with time. As a side to that we use software to adjust for white balance, brightness contrast, etc to get your photo to look the way you remembered how it looked with your eye (and then some). Unfortunately, this is also the time to take artistic license and alter the photos to make them look more saturated, etc than they really are...What I'm saying is that even if the photos are altered, what you see may not be what the photographer sees anyways. How's that for a curve ball?

The point that is bring made is that its become common for vendors and hobbyists to distort the picture way beyond what would be reasonable for error with monitors.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

The point that is bring made is that its become common for vendors and hobbyists to distort the picture way beyond what would be reasonable for error with monitors.

Precisely my point! Yes, light fixtures and water parameters can distort the way "you saw" the corals online, but seriously we are done with the excuses. As you mentioned, it's getting pretty ridiculous now and I think it's time the selling methods change.

How about this, what if vendors put "no PS" on their threads. If PS is blatantly seen happen within these threads we get to call out the vendor sure, it's a risk on the vendors end but at least we get to see the real deal instead of buying a name where the corals are being sold from. Too many suck ups when it comes to REAL feedback.

 

[NanaReefer]

I no longer buy any corals online, haven't in over 3yrs. Once burned twice shy PSing will never stop! It's just to easy to do and get away with.
Someone needs to create an app that detects when/how a picture is PSed. Then it will stop!

 

[melev]

There are several factors to keep in mind. The type of camera they use can make something look nicer than the one I'm shooting with, in theory. If I shoot with a D90 and Sanjay shoots with a D800, his coral will always look better than mine, for example. lol

I have always tried to make the picture on my screen look like what I saw with my eyes at the time of the shoot. My goal isn't to make the coral look like the best one on the planet, but rather to share what I'm enjoying at the time.

When you look down upon corals from above, they will look MUCH better than they will through the side panel of an aquarium. And if the person hasn't opted to get a low-iron (Starphire, Diamante, etc) glass tank, the green hue will also kill the appearance. Why do you think so many pictures are taken from above? At the frag swaps, all the tanks are shallow so you can look down at every frag, rather than in a taller tank that you view from the side?

Factor in how the coral changes to something bland in our own water within a week or two, but give it about 90 days and it should begin to shine again. Are images over saturated in this hobby? Yes. Some don't know how to use PS or Lightroom properly, or they simply don't care. But as one person said above, if people keep buying from such artists, it won't stop.

Let me add a picture of something from my tank, after running it through Lightroom. And if you come over to visit, this is exactly what you'll see.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

There are several factors to keep in mind. The type of camera they use can make something look nicer than the one I'm shooting with, in theory. If I shoot with a D90 and Sanjay shoots with a D800, his coral will always look better than mine, for example. lol

I have always tried to make the picture on my screen look like what I saw with my eyes at the time of the shoot. My goal isn't to make the coral look like the best one on the planet, but rather to share what I'm enjoying at the time.

When you look down upon corals from above, they will look MUCH better than they will through the side panel of an aquarium. And if the person hasn't opted to get a low-iron (Starphire, Diamante, etc) glass tank, the green hue will also kill the appearance. Why do you think so many pictures are taken from above? At the frag swaps, all the tanks are shallow so you can look down at every frag, rather than in a taller tank that you view from the side?

Factor in how the coral changes to something bland in our own water within a week or two, but give it about 90 days and it should begin to shine again. Are images over saturated in this hobby? Yes. Some don't know how to use PS or Lightroom properly, or they simply don't care. But as one person said above, if people keep buying from such artists, it won't stop.

Let me add a picture of something from my tank, after running it through Lightroom. And if you come over to visit, this is exactly what you'll see.

Thx melev for pointing out another variable: the camera.

I know that I can spot out the difference but the camera is ok with me since the colors are still true and not overly enhanced. My beef is with those over saturated photos where PS is totally noticeable. I think this brings up another point where people could cry PS when it's just a nice quality camera.

I am a photographer at heart and sometimes do events for a little cash.

 

[ReefMadScientist]

I no longer buy any corals online, haven't in over 3yrs. Once burned twice shy PSing will never stop! It's just to easy to do and get away with.
Someone needs to create an app that detects when/how a picture is PSed. Then it will stop!

Now there is a nice solution

 

[jayhawk]

This topic is my main gripe with some vendors. I learned through a bad experience, that when I see a great piece that looks too good, I ask for a picture under normal lighting. One of two things happen. The untouched picture is not what was represented or I don't get a picture back. I have no issues with calling someone out if I am spending my hard earned cash. Vendors shouldn't have an issue with accommodating our requests.

 

[howaboutme]

There are several factors to keep in mind. The type of camera they use can make something look nicer than the one I'm shooting with, in theory. If I shoot with a D90 and Sanjay shoots with a D800, his coral will always look better than mine, for example. lol

That's not entirely true. While there are differences in camera based on price the main parts of the camera that create great pictures are the same, the shooter, the ability to understand and use the main functions such as aperture setting, white balance, iso, etc....Now..the big differences come from lenses. If one is using a lens that allows you to shoot in low light or a macro, that will make a difference. When viewed on the screen, resolution doesn't matter since our screens are all 72 dpi. Equipment can only take you so far...kind of like reefing.

 

[turbo21]

Precisely my point! Yes, light fixtures and water parameters can distort the way "you saw" the corals online, but seriously we are done with the excuses. As you mentioned, it's getting pretty ridiculous now and I think it's time the selling methods change.

How about this, what if vendors put "no PS" on their threads. If PS is blatantly seen happen within these threads we get to call out the vendor sure, it's a risk on the vendors end but at least we get to see the real deal instead of buying a name where the corals are being sold from. Too many suck ups when it comes to REAL feedback.

Good idea. But I am guessing that almost every vendor uses photoshop. Even just to adjust exposure and white balance Which is totally acceptable. With LEDs it's almost impossible to get great pics without some adjustment. But it has to be a responsible
So saying no ps would be lying right off the bat