Day 23 - Continuing the final push...
In the beginning, there was a sump. It consisted of 6 30g rubbermaid tubs that were not rated to hold water, and caused all kinds of problems. (but man did they grow algae!)
After the great disaster (see page 1), the sumps had to go, mostly because they were going to break one of these days, and make everything horrible-er. The problem was, I had no idea what to replace them with. The resurrection of the tank was performed, by just giving up on having a proper sump setup, and going with anything to make progress. So I threw 2 trigger Ruby's down there, and called it good.
It was not good.
Essentially, there was a right side, and a left side. There was a small tube connecting the two, but it did not do a good job of evening the water levels across the sumps. If one of the pumps shut down, or one of the drains stopped for any reason, the other side would have problems, and the whole thing was a hot mess. I had like 20 lines of Apex code to detect these problems and fiddle the pump outputs around in the event of this, and it did work, but I was constantly fighting the left side running the pump dry because one of the weirs had a little more algae in it, etc etc etc. I knew full well when designing this, that it wasn't ideal, but it was just causing me infinite ongoing pain, and had to be corrected, I just had no idea what to do.
Now I know what to do.
What you see here, is a 3d printed model of the underside of the tank. 1" == 2mm. The little boxes are Seamless Sumps. Each one is about 17-20g, and they are made of the same polyethelyne as water storage tanks are. I printed this model, and then a whole bunch of the little sumps, so I could try out different combinations and arrangements, and then settle on a final purchase. Because I learned years ago that the 3 sections are not all the same size, you can see that I have less sumps in the right section. It took me a few weeks of fiddling with this model before I finalized a design I liked, and then I ordered them.
Individually, they aren't that bad. About $170-$200 each. Of course buying 8 of them adds up quick. (I got one extra small one, just in case my model was off a little, more on him later...) Total with tax and shipping was about $1700. They arrived in about a week, all in great condition, and I was super happy with them.
The next thing to do was to plan out the layout with the actual sumps.
So here is the layout, on the living room floor, more or less aligned how I wanted it. I ended up moving some stuff around, but this was the general plan. The two in the center are baffle tubs, which have a section for the pumps in the front. I have 4 of the large tubs, and then 1 small tub. The idea is that the drain pipes enter the right and left sumps, snake their way through the maze of sumps, and end up in the center two baffle tubs. Then I would connect the two baffle tubs, and have the return pumps push back up to the display.
Now obviously, this was not without some problems. Actually, it was mostly all problems. SO many problems. Lets start detailing them! Yay!
Everything you see in this shot has to go.. Obviously. But the keen eyed of you might notice a pile of sawdust. That's because those uprights were 16" apart. And these sumps are 17" wide. So the uprights had to be moved.. again.. an inch or so out of the way. With the existing sumps down there, it made cutting a total nightmare, and was basically done by hand with a hacksaw over many hours.
Then I got to repeat the process here....
And here too! The only nice thing about this 6 hours of work, is that now it's actually a little easier to move around down there, and get to things. Before it was so tight it was a nightmare to do any work at all down there. This extra 2-4 inches of space made a world of difference.
The next issue is, I needed to be super sure I understood the water dynamics in this setup, before I started drilling holes. Do the holes need to be drilled up high, to keep the water levels high in the refugium, or should they be down at the bottom for extra flow? So I made another model. I grabbed 3 $5 trash cans, and plumbed them up with some leftover bulkheads from the original sumps, and ran some water in different configurations to understand how the water would flow, and where it would overflow. This wasn't a 1:1 model, but it helped wrap my brain around the flow, and made sure I wasn't going to make a $1700 error. (don't worry, I tried really hard to make those errors anyhow!)
Now one of the nicer features about the seamless sumps, is that they have little indents on them, so you can drill bulkheads and have them all lined up nicely. I decided to go with 2" bulkheads, because I don't want any flow restrictions or backup at all. My original sumps had 2 1.5" between them, and I found that if I used just 1 of the two, it was a little shy...
So I took one of the small sumps, because I knew I had an extra of that one, and drilled away. Installed the bulkhead, screwed a plug into it, and then leak tested.
Leaks everywhere. Argh.. WHY? Well, it turns out, 2" was just very slightly too big for that bottom position. While it LOOKED ok, the flange of the bulkhead met with the slight curve of the inside bottom, and wouldn't seal properly. I tried multiple gaskets, 3d printed a bulkhead wrench to tighten it, everything. Nothing would make that thing seal. Which means I just broke that mini sump. So what you see in the above photo, is me measuring 5/8" above the indent, and marking there for the center of the drill. This way it wouldn't hit the bottom curve again.
Of course, having just wrecked a sump.. I had to now hem and haw and stare at it for a day or two before I had the guts to drill again, because if I broke this sump, well, now I would have to order another one, and that was bad. Eventually however, I mustered the courage, and set the drill on it, plumbed up the bulkhead, and this time it sealed.
So this is a shot after a leak test. Basically I took two threaded bulkheads, installed them backwards (Yes, I know) and then threaded a 2" nipple between them. With generous amounts of PTFE tape. I basically screwed the bulkheads together onto the nipple, and then installed the set onto the pair of sumps, added the nuts, and was good. This was terrifying. All of this was just the prep work. I hadn't touched the actual tank yet. Now it was time to close in on that...
6 hours later, I have finally extracted everything from the left side. I had forgotten what an absolute nightmare it was to get that Ruby sump into the location it was, because there was only a 1/2" gap between it and the wall, meaning it was impossible to rotate. Now I had one covered in 2 years of ick that I somehow had to un-rotate to get back out. I also had to undo all the plumbing down there, un-run every cord and wire and piece of equipment. All on my hands and knees, and it hurt, alot. But I had it all out now. I actually had to go back to my own post to see if I had details about how I got it in there in the first place...
Moment of truth...
And it fits! Barely. This was another 2+ hours of work, because while the rear two went in like butter, that last one was a nightmare. I didn't consider that the opening was in the center, and once the rear one was in place, that the front one wouldn't fit past it to move into position. As it turns out, the distance between the 2x4 on the floor, and the supporting beam under the tank, is exactly 1mm shorter than the height of 2 of the sumps, meaning, I had to force the sump in on top of the other one, and then slide it over. Also meaning I will never ever get that thing out of there again. You can also see at the bottom the little 3d-printed nut wrench I made. Worked great.
Also in the photo, is a tiny metal round thing. That would be a can of Dupont 111 gasket sealant. I was uninterested in leaks, so every gasket got covered in that before the bulkheads were installed.
And now the middle section was prepped and installed. This photo makes it look easy. What I can say is, it was not. This was at least 8 hours more of pain and suffering.
What I did, was install just the left half of what was shown here, because I wanted the right side of the tank still operational, so the fish wouldn't die. So I installed the left baffle sump into place, and hooked the Cepex valve to it, so I could just shut it off and not have water everywhere. The problem I did not account for was one of the rearmost vertical uprights. It was right on top of where the bulkhead wanted to cross between the baffle sump and the left section.
This was of course, another one of those, did I just make a $1700 mistake moments. I spend another few hours slightly fiddling the positions of the sumps, to get enough space, because there was absolutely no way I was going to move that particular upright, because it was right under one of the 2x8 beams that held the tank up. Not touching that. Nope.
Luckily, with hours of minor adjustments, I was able to fit it all into place, and get things lined up just right, with 1/4" of gap between the cross-pipe and the upright, and made it work. Oh what a nightmare.
So now, with the left side plumbed in, and water moving through it, it was time to tackle the right side.
This side was a million times easier to put together, however, that elbow between the two took a long time to measure and cut just right, so everything fit together without gaps and bending. What you see here is about 8 more hours of effort.
Also seen here, is the original "you drilled it in the wrong place" sump. Which I was hoping to use as an RO topoff container. (it's quite nice for one honestly, I highly recommend them!) I 3d printed a tiny ring, to space the nut off the back in the hopes it would fix the leak. It didn't. More on that later.
I also have a 3rd pump, a COR15, that runs various accessories, like the carbon, and the dump bucket, and the sponge bucket. This needed to be re-plumbed entirely, so I re-used one of my FS-100's from the older return pump plumbing, and ran a pipe across the back for that one. This pump was actually one of the high-pain points of the original setup, as it unbalanced the entire setup of right to left.
And now most of the auxilliary stuff is plumbed back in. The 2" drain is just temporarily set (no glue) into the first tub (the left side is basically the same), and the RO setup is wired into the mini tub.
While drilling the final hole in the right baffle tub, I nearly made a fatal error. At the bottom of each of the baffle tubs, there are small raised areas, where you can set media trays on. Because I'm entering the baffle on a different side, it turns out one of these raised areas is right up against the side of the tub, and I completely failed to notice this in my days of planning cuts very carefully. I very nearly drilled through it! That would have rendered that whole sump useless. As it was, it was a huge problem, because now I had a hole in the sump, but I can't put the nut on the bulkhead, because it was right up against the edge. I ended up 3d-printing another fix-ring, this time a C-shaped one, that offset the inside nut about 30mm, so I could avoid that bump. Luckily, this time, it worked. The nut sealed, no leaks. Disaster averted.
Only thing left to do was to fire up the right side, and get it all back online. At this point, I'm 30 hours into the install, and completely exhausted, so I decide to leave it overnight, rather than fight leaks all night...
The next morning, bright and early, I start firing up the right side, and thankfully, that goes without a hitch. Now both the left and right sides are running. It wasn't actually that easy.. but..
So the total volume of these sumps, if completely full to dangerous levels, is about 150g. At reasonable levels, it's about 110-120g. The previous 2 Ruby sumps were, maybe 20-30 each? And I ended up having to discard alot of that water, because it was just chock full of mulm. That meant I needed to add about 100g of water into the system. This is one of the reasons I setup the water change station, I knew I needed all that water just to fill these bad boys. The left side needed 40 gallons just to barely cover the pump, and I could only run it at 25%. I ended up putting 45 gallons in, and then started making more. I had to run both pumps at 15% for a day while the salt mixed up, and I could dump another 60 gallons down there. At which point, I could finally run the pumps up to 100%.
The Seamless sumps come with really nice glass covers, which I could use in a few places, not all. The great thing about that rear one, is that it lets me drop the light down super low, and not worry about salt splash on it. I picked up 2 ViparSpectra 600w (not really 600w, more like 150) grow lights, and hung them. Right now that's at the lowest setting, I will be slowly ramping them back up to full. The protein skimmer went into that mini tub in the back, and fits really nicely, and I have a shorter run now to the skimmate locker. It's actually alot easier to get to the skimmer now for maintenance, even though its way in the back.
The final-ish part of this setup, is running all the tubes for the AWC, and the dosing pumps. I 3d printed some nice brackets, and mounted them everywhere, and then ran all the tubes all over creation. This still isn't done completely, but it's getting there. You can also see the other sump light in this pic.
So.. 30 hours to install the sumps. Another 8 to get them tuned up and working. I've also done maybe 16 hours of work running tubes and cords and cables and trying to organize it all. Mission accomplished?
Oh god no. I have so many problems to solve..
Problem the first. There is a tiny leak between the left side sump block and the left baffle sump. It's like a pinhole leak, and barely coming out. I've mucked with that one for hours, and I don't think I can fix it. I'm kinda just hoping at this point that the salt seals it up. Yeah. I know. Shoulda used more tape.
Problem the second. The clarisea just will not work with this setup. The 1" input is anemic compared to the 2" pipe, and I don't want to just cram it down in there, it will just cause problems. Instead I want to buy a pair of Aquamaxx AF-1's, because they have 1.5" inputs, but MarineDepot is sold out of them.. argh. This is why the drain plumbing isn't glued yet. I want to get the parts and see how they will fit, and then hard plumb.
Problem the third. Remember that mini tub I broke by drilling to low, and then decided I could rescue with a fix-ring, and then re-used as an ATO res? Yeah, here is a surprise. It leaks. Like crazy leaks. I tried more gaskets. More goop on the gaskets. I even just spewed silicone around the outside of the bulkhead, which slowed the leak, and moved it... Once this batch of water in the res empties out, I'll pull it out again, and then apply a bunch of epoxy around the bulkhead, and just pray that that works. I guess if it doesn't I'll buy a new one.
Problem the fourth. The return pump flow is odd. When I took the left side down, I had all the flow into the right Ruby sump, and to keep it from overflowing, I cranked that pump up from 60% to 100%. While it was running, it was pushing the flow at 850GPH according to the FS-200. When the pump was at 60%, it was pushing ~600GPH per the same return plumbing, and FS-200. Now with both pumps running at 100%, they are both showing the same numbers they used to have when they ran at 60%. I don't know if something is off with the pumps, or the flow sensors, or what here. I should be getting 800 out of both.. it feels like I am, looking at the water, but the numbers are nonsense.. I don't understand, but I haven't had time to debug it.
Problem the fifth. The sponge bucket started leaking. I had to rotate it ever so slightly, and while doing so, I pushed on the 3/4" tube coming out of the uniseal. Now that uniseal leaks, and nothing I do will make it stop. I've had to cut that off from the system, and purchased a new uniseal, and I'm hoping replacing it will fix it.
Problem the sixth. The cords for the COR20's are too short. They don't even sell extension cables for them. They do make it, just barely, but I have to run them in a way that displeases me. I don't know if this is solvable. If I can't fix problem 4 though, I could see maybe replacing them with Octo 8's...
So. 30 hours of labor to get the sumps in. About 10 more to tune them and fill with water. I've easily spent another 20 or so doing wires and tubes trying to get the minor things plumbed up. 6 major ongoing problems to solve. Am I happy?
Yes. OMG yes. The setup is so much cleaner than my old one. These sumps are great. I have like 5 times the volume for the refugiums, and the flow through them is way way better. The lighting on them is better too, by a longshot. I don't need as much stupid nonsense equipment and light blockers and grates to keep algae out of the sponges and skimmer problems and on and on and on. The levels of the two sides are consistent. I can just turn one return pump off and nothing bad happens. I can isolate the two halves with the Cepex valve instantly. The ATO setup is 100 times better. Everything sucks less. I just have another 24+ hours of labor to do to fix leaks, problems, and do more wire/cable/etc management, and hookup the AWC.
So I'm basically on the home stretch now. I'm just tuning problems out, finishing up some wiring, cleaning some stuff up. But more or less my sump problems are finally getting solved. I think I might have a forever solution now, so, I'm happy with that. I might do some tweaks here and there, but this is it, it works.
The room is still a mess, and I'm still doing work.. but.. yeah.. I think this time I'll stay up, and keep working...
