Tiny particulates in the water making it look cloudy?

[stanleo]

Yesterday I swapped filter socks to clean them. I do this every five days or so and never an issue. Ever since I have so many tiny particles floating in the water that it looks cloudy. This has happened before when the filter socks were brand new but not since. It will sometimes happen after changing filter socks but only for a few hours, never for this long. I would say they are tiny bubbles but it is settling on the equipment in the tank like the pumps and over flow box as a white film. Currently there is a snail on the overflow box and you can clearly see his trail. It does look like it is coming from the return but there is nothing floating in that section of the sump. I did my 6 month cleaning of the return pump last water change two weeks ago. The next water change is this Tuesday. I clean the socks by spraying them in the sink with hot water until water can freely flow through and then let them dry until I swap them again.

The last time I did a full battery of tests was this past Wednesday and these were the results.

Temp 78F
Salinity 35 ppt
pH 8.2 API
Alkalinity 9 dKH Red Sea
Calcium 500 ppm Red Sea
Magnesium 1440 ppm Red Sea
Phosphate .03 ppm Salifert
Nitrate 2 ppm Salifert

I think it might be an algae thing but I'm not sure. My chaeto in the fuge grows really well and I haven't had any issues with algae yet. Tank is 120 gallons setup and running for 9 months. Most recent addition was a live rock with a kenya tree and a green hairy mushroom over a week ago. Nothing has died in months and no one is currently missing. All the livestock, corals fish and inverts are behaving normally. I test alkalinity every day to see if dosing that day is needed. Still a 9dKH. I dose with part 2 of seachem reef fusion almost every day.

My plan now is wait and see. Do my regular water change and clean the pumps and overflow box. I will also brush the rocks some though there doesn't seem to be an accumulation on the rocks. Do another full battery of tests before the water change. Any other suggestions?

Here's some pics

 

[stanleo]

bump

 

[Backreefing]

Might be the protein skimmer making micro bubbles? Just a guess.

 

[stanleo]

It's not tiny bubbles, wish it was, that I know how to handle. I'm definitely thinking it is some form of algae, just don't know what. Thanks for the response though. I might try having my fuge light on opposite of the DT light. See if that does anything.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Evening

It’s hard for me to tell from the pics, is it a lot in the tank?

It could be something simple, maybe something got on the sock. How do you clean them? I would throw some floss in the sock to help catch the finer particles if you have some. Give it a day or 2 more to see if it clears.

My other thought was maybe some precipitation. Was anything else done besides changing the sock, any changes in dosing or feeding?

My suggestion is hold off doing anything other than your normal routine and adding some additional mechanical filtration like floss or bonded pads. Test calc, alk, and mag to be sure it was not a precipitation thing. Keep us posted

 

[stanleo]

Evening

It’s hard for me to tell from the pics, is it a lot in the tank?

It could be something simple, maybe something got on the sock. How do you clean them? I would throw some floss in the sock to help catch the finer particles if you have some. Give it a day or 2 more to see if it clears.

My other thought was maybe some precipitation. Was anything else done besides changing the sock, any changes in dosing or feeding?

My suggestion is hold off doing anything other than your normal routine and adding some additional mechanical filtration like floss or bonded pads. Test calc, alk, and mag to be sure it was not a precipitation thing. Keep us posted

Yes there is a lot and it gets worse as the day goes on. Its a little when the lights first come on and by the time of lights out, it is a virtual blizzard in the water. I think it is photosensitive. It still looks white in the water under all white light but I took a bunch out that settled on a pump and in regular light in the bucket it looks dark green. I think it is some type of algae. Looks fuzzy and doesn't attach to anything.

I clean the socks with a hot water spray until the water flows through them freely and then let them dry in a bucket I keep next to the tank. Swap them out every five days or so.

No changes in feeding. I did start dosing Alk daily about 2 weeks before this happened.

I did my biweekly water change today and cleaned the pumps and brushed off the over flow box and rocks. Didn't seem to be much on the rocks at all compared to the equipment in the tank. I ran my tests before water change and:

Temp 78F
Salinity 35 ppt
pH 8.2 API
Alkalinity 9 dKH Red Sea
Calcium 470 ppm Red Sea
Magnesium 1440 ppm Red Sea
Phosphate .1 ppm Salifert
Nitrate 2 ppm Salifert

The increase in phosphates could definitely by the reason for the sudden onset I am thinking. I am going to remove some chaeto from the fuge. And until yesterday I had the fuge light on at the same time as my display tank. I just now changed it to run opposite to the DT and run for 8 hours. I also had the thought of putting filter floss in a filter bag and shoving it under the bubble trap in the return compartment of the sump. What is your idea on that? I always keep filter floss on hand for my freshwater tanks but have never used it on a reef tank. DT lights are two Red Sea ReefLED 90s. Ramp up is an hour starting at 8am to 100% on blue and white lights and ramp down is an hour starting at 6pm.

I took a sample and looked at it under a micro scope at 100x and 600x magnification and it does look like green algae. I also found the sample teaming with microscopic life! I was fascinated.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hi.

It may be some form of algae bloom like you are thinking, possible bacteria?I think we ruled out precipitation or we should see some of your numbers bottom out. The Po4 increase is my only hesitation on an algae bloom. I would expect it to bottom out as the algae consumed it. I would make sure to get some extra O2 in the tank. Maybe a powerhead at the surface. If it is bacteria or algae you may start seeing an oxygen depletion.

The best use of filter floss would be to stuff some into the sock. This is a good point to capture flow. In the bubble trap is also good, but your filter sock may pull a lot out reducing the effectiveness of the floss. Maybe run carbon also if not already in use.

Awesome on the scope. If you can post some pics it may make ID easier.

I’m running out of thoughts on what it could be. If it is just floating detris a flocculating agent like Kent clarifier can help, but I highly do NOT recommend using it.

Last question I promise, I forgot to ask what if any media you are running?

@Crabs McJones , any thoughts? Bacteria bloom maybe?

 

[Crabs McJones]

This only happens after changing your filter socks? Do you notice your protein skimmer bubbling more than normal? Is this only with brand new filter socks or washed and reused filter socks?

 

[stanleo]

Hi.

It may be some form of algae bloom like you are thinking, possible bacteria?I think we ruled out precipitation or we should see some of your numbers bottom out. The Po4 increase is my only hesitation on an algae bloom. I would expect it to bottom out as the algae consumed it. I would make sure to get some extra O2 in the tank. Maybe a powerhead at the surface. If it is bacteria or algae you may start seeing an oxygen depletion.

The best use of filter floss would be to stuff some into the sock. This is a good point to capture flow. In the bubble trap is also good, but your filter sock may pull a lot out reducing the effectiveness of the floss. Maybe run carbon also if not already in use.

Awesome on the scope. If you can post some pics it may make ID easier.

I’m running out of thoughts on what it could be. If it is just floating detris a flocculating agent like Kent clarifier can help, but I highly do NOT recommend using it.

Last question I promise, I forgot to ask what if any media you are running?

@Crabs McJones , any thoughts? Bacteria bloom maybe?

Funny you mention the power head. I did move the one higher and pointed to the surface to break it but more in an attempt to get the stuff into the overflow box better not thinking about the O2 content. Makes sense about the Po4 increase shouldn't happen if there is more algae growth. Could be bacterial, the microscope isn't all that powerful, it goes up to 1200x so probably not good enough to see bacteria but then again, I don't know. It's just a cheap thing I got five years at a hobby shop.

I am going to put floss in the socks like you suggested. I would think though that that is an awful lot for the stuff to get through from the socks, protein skimmer and the bubble trap, which is why I put it under the bubble trap. But it couldn't hurt.

Can't get pics with this scope. I'm not too worried about ID. I know there are a lot of organisms living in a reef tank and until I see fish or corals struggling, I won't worry too much about that. Like this issue, everything seems to be behaving normally. My corals are colorful and growing and my fish are bright, active and eating. I don't want to make too many changes just because I freak out unnecessarily, you know?

I detest chemical solutions to problems in a tank. In my experience with freshwater they have always created more issues than they solve.

Well this sump has been running on the tank for 7 months and before that it was a canister filter for two months. There are the socks and at the bottom of that compartment are some ceramic washers from the old filter I put in to keep the bacteria on them. Then there is the protein skimmer by itself in the next compartment. Then the bubble trap sponge that leads into the return. My refugium is fed with a pump that sits in the skimmer compartment and drains through a pvc pipe that empties onto the bubble trap. I did it this way because when it emptied directly into the return chamber it created a ton of tiny bubbles. The fuge has live rock rubble and chaeto that grows well and a lot of hair algae. The intake compartment of the fuge is where I keep the carbon bag. !0 gallon Fuge has only been setup for a little over a month. And of course today I added the floss under the bubble trap. I didn't worry about the hair algae in the fuge cause it hasn't been growing in the tank at all and there is a good amount of pods growing in the fuge so I am hesitant about cleaning that too much. I have never cleaned that bubble trap. The only thing I ever clean in the sump are the socks.

 

[stanleo]

This only happens after changing your filter socks? Do you notice your protein skimmer bubbling more than normal? Is this only with brand new filter socks or washed and reused filter socks?

Yes it does and usually goes away after a few hours. This has been going on now for 3 or four days. The skimmer is acting normally. Gets about half an inch or so of skimmate over a week. The tank is still relatively new at 9 months so isn't heavily stocked yet. I have two pairs of socks that I swap out every five days or so. Haven't gotten new ones since I got the sump seven months ago. I clean the dirty socks with hot running water from the spray on my kitchen sink until the water runs straight through them. I then let them air dry in a bucket that I only use for this purpose. I thought about running the tank for a couple days with no socks to see if it goes away. Is that a good idea?

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Good to hear everything is acting normal. Sounds l like a good plan you have in place. keep up the surface agitation to be safe. Your PH is good, maybe check a few times late at night or early morning to see what your drop is. Just mention that because you may not need to run a reverse photo period.

Like you said, if everything looks good, stay away from the chemicals or rash actions. Monitor the parameters and inhabitants for sudden shifts or changes. Still hoping maybe someone else has an alternate theroy

 

[Crabs McJones]

You could try. Usually I throw my socks in the washing machine. I'm wondering if something in the socks is causing micro bubbles. But usually your skimmer will go nuts along with it.

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Yes it does and usually goes away after a few hours. This has been going on now for 3 or four days. The skimmer is acting normally. Gets about half an inch or so of skimmate over a week. The tank is still relatively new at 9 months so isn't heavily stocked yet. I have two pairs of socks that I swap out every five days or so. Haven't gotten new ones since I got the sump seven months ago. I clean the dirty socks with hot running water from the spray on my kitchen sink until the water runs straight through them. I then let them air dry in a bucket that I only use for this purpose. I thought about running the tank for a couple days with no socks to see if it goes away. Is that a good idea?

It couldn’t hurt to pull the socks for a day or so. I would put some floss in areas that could take place of the socks mechanical filtration and see what happens

 

[stanleo]

Good to hear everything is acting normal. Sounds l like a good plan you have in place. keep up the surface agitation to be safe. Your PH is good, maybe check a few times late at night or early morning to see what your drop is. Just mention that because you may not need to run a reverse photo period.

Like you said, if everything looks good, stay away from the chemicals or rash actions. Monitor the parameters and inhabitants for sudden shifts or changes. Still hoping maybe someone else has an alternate theroy

I will check the pH before I go to bed tonight, thank you. Never done that before but have always meant to.

 

[stanleo]

It couldn’t hurt to pull the socks for a day or so. I would put some floss in areas that could take place of the socks mechanical filtration and see what happens

If hasn't gotten better tomorrow I will pull the socks. Thanks for your help.

 

[stanleo]

You could try. Usually I throw my socks in the washing machine. I'm wondering if something in the socks is causing micro bubbles. But usually your skimmer will go nuts along with it.

It scares me so much to put them in the wash. lol. I am terrified of getting detergent in my tank or any chemicals. I am kind of a clean freak with my house and it's my greatest fear that I will accidentally use a sponge with some kind of cleaning agent on it. I keep all my tank stuff completely separate from the rest of the house stuff. thank you for your help.

 

[Murica]

I had that a lot in my tank until i realized it was a flow rate issue... there simply wasn’t enough turn over rate for the water to be filtered properly so after increasing it it significantly improved

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Hi,

Any updates,

I was thinking about it. It’s a long shot but any chance it could be a pod population explosion? I had something similar one day in my tank. I was just sitting around, I looked and tons of stuff was floating. But mine went away next day.

Murica made a good point about flow.

 

[stanleo]

Hi,

Any updates,

I was thinking about it. It’s a long shot but any chance it could be a pod population explosion? I had something similar one day in my tank. I was just sitting around, I looked and tons of stuff was floating. But mine went away next day.

Murica made a good point about flow.

It is getting better thank you. There hasn't been the accumulation on the pumps and over flow box and it doesn't look quite like a blizzard anymore. Funny, I had the same thought on the pod explosion as well but yeah, I didn't think it would last more than a day or two. That would be so cool though!

I thought Murica made a good point as well. I put the two pumps at the top toward the front facing each other and the stronger one on the right is on a timer that goes off randomly. i took a short video if you're interested.

Thanks for asking!

 

[krash7172]

Sometimes when problem solving, it's more about elimination of variables than looking for the smoking gun. That's probably the case here. Make a small measurable change and be patient. If the problem doesn't go away, try something else. I'm curious what you find. I struggled a bit with something similar and it went away as the tank matured. Thanks for posting.

I wash my filter socks in the washing machine on hot without detergent of course.