To copper or not...

[Biff0rz]

Bought two clowns (first fishes for new tank) and they are doing great. Ate first day, no weird issues etc. I plan to qt them for a minimum of 30 days. I'm debating using copper. Anyone here qt without copper? Also I heard good things about a fw dip - how does one do that?

 

[Ron Reefman]

Just a question, if they aren't showing any signs of disease or having any issues, do you really want to stress them with copper or FW dip?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Bought two clowns (first fishes for new tank) and they are doing great. Ate first day, no weird issues etc. I plan to qt them for a minimum of 30 days. I'm debating using copper. Anyone here qt without copper? Also I heard good things about a fw dip - how does one do that?

I always actively quarantine all new fish with 30 days chelated copper and a round of praziquantel treatments, total time 45 days, I only use FW dips as a diagnostic tool to look for flukes.
A 30 day, observational quarantine as you describe is pretty risky. So many times people do that, add the fish to their DT and a disease gets in. If your clowns are captive raised from a good dealer, it is less of an issue.
Jay

 

[rwreef]

My new clowns are on their last week of QT. Here is how I did my QT..no copper
1) recieved fish shipment/ acclimated into QT and let them hang out and recover for 3 days. They looked healthy from day1.
2) Took fish out of QT, 1.5 hr dip in ParaGuard, did 100% water change in QT and placed fish back into tank
3) started metroplex every 48hrs for 14 days
4) this week will be a 100% water change and final ParaGuard dip before going into my DT where I have a few fish I've had for several years.

Note my fish have looked healthy the entire time and have no issues eating. This is probably not a perfect QT process but what I used. I like preventive care method with observation and overall goal is to reduce stress.

 

[Skynyrd Fish]

I would monitor them and feed them lightly a few times per day. If you don’t see any signs of disease I would not treat. I am old school and feed and observe before medications.

 

[Qasimja]

for clowns if you arent going to use copper i would at least treat them with seachem metro for brook and also 2 rounds of prazi

 

[piranhaman00]

Always copper.

 

[elysics]

--edit-- nvm

 

[artieg1]

I would read up on the fish disease stickies, regarding QT, observation, preventative treatment, etc. I would recommend that you read those several times, then make a decision about what you are going to do for this and *all* future new fish arrivals, and then follow it religiously. I think that will leave you better informed than getting random opinions from whoever happened to see this thread today!

 

[Biff0rz]

So, I think in the long run, I should probably do copper. I should probably just start with these little guys and just get used to it. I have a 20g long with a softball-sized piece of live rock (tank has cycled fully, rock was cured). I've recently read that the LR could soak up some of the copper? Should I remove the LR before I treat with copper and will that cause a cycle? Note- I plan to run my QT for a long time as I'm going to be adding fish over the next year and do not plan to move the LR out of the QT, nor will I add it back to the DT. I bought a bit of extra and am using it.

I did purchase copper power a while ago, that's a good one to use, right?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

So, I think in the long run, I should probably do copper. I should probably just start with these little guys and just get used to it. I have a 20g long with a softball-sized piece of live rock (tank has cycled fully, rock was cured). I've recently read that the LR could soak up some of the copper? Should I remove the LR before I treat with copper and will that cause a cycle? Note- I plan to run my QT for a long time as I'm going to be adding fish over the next year and do not plan to move the LR out of the QT, nor will I add it back to the DT. I bought a bit of extra and am using it.

I did purchase copper power a while ago, that's a good one to use, right?

You'll lose a substantial portion of your nitrifiers if you pull the rock out, but if you leave it in, you won't be able to use it in with invertebrates in the future.

You should always monitor your ammonia in the QT during active treatments, not so much with copper, but for CP and antibiotics.

I've not used Copper Power, but it is probably one of the amine-based copper products like Cupramine and Coppersafe. Make sure you get the blue bottle, not green. The API test kit should work to check you dosage.

Jay

 

[Katie M]

For what it's worth, clowns don't tolerate freshwater dips well at all...

 

[Biff0rz]

You'll lose a substantial portion of your nitrifiers if you pull the rock out, but if you leave it in, you won't be able to use it in with invertebrates in the future.

You should always monitor your ammonia in the QT during active treatments, not so much with copper, but for CP and antibiotics.

I've not used Copper Power, but it is probably one of the amine-based copper products like Cupramine and Coppersafe. Make sure you get the blue bottle, not green. The API test kit should work to check you dosage.

Jay

I think I'm fine with not using it for inverts in the future, I have another QT tank I can plop them in.

I have an ammonia badge and a red sea test kit, both 0. I also have a RS copper test.

 

[artieg1]

QT is actually difficult to master. I would not rely on an ammonia badge. Oxygen depletion and ammonia are the big killers during copper QT, not the copper itself. Make sure you have good water movement (add a power head, don't rely on a HOB filter alone), and I would borrow some media from your DT (sponger filter insert, matrix, some small pieces of rock) to seed your QT, but you will need to toss those later. Do frequent water changes (I pull from my DT) but be sure to add back copper. Get a good copper test, I would get Hanna.

 

[Biff0rz]

QT is actually difficult to master. I would not rely on an ammonia badge. Oxygen depletion and ammonia are the big killers during copper QT, not the copper itself. Make sure you have good water movement (add a power head, don't rely on a HOB filter alone), and I would borrow some media from your DT (sponger filter insert, matrix, some small pieces of rock) to seed your QT, but you will need to toss those later. Do frequent water changes (I pull from my DT) but be sure to add back copper. Get a good copper test, I would get Hanna.

I have a hob and powerhead.
My DT is still cycling but this is the same rock that's been curing for over a year and came from another DT. So will the rock that's in there soak up any copper and throw off my levels?
How frequent of water changes do you suggest? I don't have a Hanna yet, I suppose it's time for one

 

[artieg1]

I have a hob and powerhead.
My DT is still cycling but this is the same rock that's been curing for over a year and came from another DT. So will the rock that's in there soak up any copper and throw off my levels?
How frequent of water changes do you suggest? I don't have a Hanna yet, I suppose it's time for one

Any media that you use will have to be tossed after the QT, so I typically take a little bit of matrix from my sump and add it to the HOB as extra insurance, along with a sponge (several of which I have in my sump in case I need to QT something). That small amount of media should not throw off copper levels too much, but you want to test to confirm. For water changes, depending on the bioload in the QT, I may change 25% (5 gallons) every 3-4 days. In my experience, the key to successful QT is plenty of flow (oxygen), and low bioload and water changes (ammonia).

 

[Biff0rz]

Any media that you use will have to be tossed after the QT, so I typically take a little bit of matrix from my sump and add it to the HOB as extra insurance, along with a sponge (several of which I have in my sump in case I need to QT something). That small amount of media should not throw off copper levels too much, but you want to test to confirm. For water changes, depending on the bioload in the QT, I may change 25% (5 gallons) every 3-4 days. In my experience, the key to successful QT is plenty of flow (oxygen), and low bioload and water changes (ammonia).

So, is there any harm in leaving the LR in the QT long term if the QT is up and running long term? Or are you saying that when I need to remove copper the LR would need to go too?
When you're done with QT do you just toss the matrix?

 

[artieg1]

So, is there any harm in leaving the LR in the QT long term if the QT is up and running long term? Or are you saying that when I need to remove copper the LR would need to go too?
When you're done with QT do you just toss the matrix?

Yes, I toss everything and drain the QT and dry the tank and all components (I don't typically bleach unless I think there was something really nasty in there). This may seem a long way off, but if you get successful at this you will have so many healthy fish in your DT that you rarely buy any fish, and when you do you pull your QT setup out and start it anew at that stage. That is why many people keep spare media and sponge filters in the sump, to move to a QT to help handle ammonia if they need to set up the QT. I have found this process has reduced deaths in QT for me, considerably. Again, in my experience, copper is rarely the killer in QT, but it can impact appetite, so I always make sure fish are eating for at least a week before starting copper.