to LED or not to LED that is the question

[LegoZ81]

I have come to a crossroads with lighting over my tank. I have one MH ballast that is starting to cause me issues and I am due for new bulbs. I want to keep matching ballasts and am looking at 3 new Lumatek and 3 Radium 20k if I go this route.

Current lighting on my 240 (96x24x24):
I have 3x250w EVC 14k SE with Lumenarc (not mini) reflectors, 4 - 4ft 454 VHO (IceCap 660 ballast) and 2 4ft reefbright bars (not XHO)

I have room above the tank to mount the LEDs high (well over 12") and was looking at doing 4 AI Sol.

I need to pull par numbers this weekend with the current setup to know what I need to hit to replicate, but I am worried about rolling the dice with $2000.

so...
to LED or not to LED?

Most recent FTS from Dec 2010:

 

[FishScale]

only way to go...AI Sol Blue

 

[Flake]

I love my AI Blues. I'm putting two more on my tank within the next month or so. I can't speak highly enough for them.

 

[FiReBReTHa]

DIY ftw,

save yourself like a third of that cost.

 

[LegoZ81]

shot of the lights with the glass removed, and with glass installed.

I am still kicking around the DIY idea but I really like the how the control setup works with the AI.

 

[LegoZ81]

Here are the par numbers with eggcrate removed:

 

[jassica]

woow. Your tank looks so blue . you did a good job for those numbers.

 

[chestnud]

I've had Halides, T-5s, and now have SOL Blues and love them. You can adjust the color to your liking and you still get the shimmer effect of halides without the heat and electricity usage. The key to the SOLs is to mount them at least 12" from the top of the tank, which you are able to do. These lights are extremely powerful and my sps/lps tanks love them. I just passed the 1 year mark and didn't miss having to buy bulbs.

 

[LegoZ81]

I guess the next question is if 4 units will provide the par i have now at the sandbed and the spread i need?

I have 24" from the mounting location to the top of the water.

 

[Jdoenumber2]

I would skip the leds. They just don't seem to have the warmth of light MH and or t5's do. I personally feel that Led lighting does not have the full spectrum look and make corals look over saturated. Your tank looks great how it is. Just my 2 cents. Good luck either way.

 

[Onedesign1]

here's my PAR numbers from my 120G...Fixure is DIY Cree 3W LEDs. At the time of these measurements and photos I was not running any optics on the LEDs. I have since added optics and dialed it way back.

Here's a current pic with 90 degree optics and dialed back to only ~110W...(fixure puts out over 220W)

Pic of the fixture in the canopy...sits ~8" off the water

Aside from AI controller DIY is much more flexible, maintainable, customizable, and you save 30%-40% over the sols. I do realize DIY is not for everyone though but offer this as an option. I posted some pics last night in the photography forum of some of my corals.

I answer your question with YES LEDs! If you're going to purchase I like the AI Sols the best.

 

[Markpolo123]

after seeing the picture above ,i have no doubt now :to led

 

[red02]

4 units will not be enough because they do not have wide enough optics. you will need 6 units to cover that much tank. you par numbers will be all over the place also unless you get them up at least 12 inches, look at some of the par readings on R.C. some people have done a lot of toying with them. hope this helps.

 

[Reef Pets]

Metal Halide for me. LED's have a high PAR rating but is PAR everything and should it determine if you go LED or Metal Halide? I really like the idea of LED's when it comes to heat, bulb replacement and so on but so many people went from Metal Halides to LED's and I have seen them go right back to Metal Halides in a short period of time.
Maybe it all comes down to the brand LED fixture that is purchased and that determines the positive and/or negative outcome?
I have the mentality of if its not broke dont fix it. With that being said Metal Halides have worked great for the past 10 or so years that I have been using them.

Like everything else in this hobby, go with what works for you and what you like. Don't follow the "fad" and waste your hard earned money for that reason only.
On the other hand, LED's have come a long way in the past year or so. At some point in the near future I feel that they will be perfected. Maybe I will try them once my Metal Halide ballast burn out....

 

[Onedesign1]

Metal Halide for me. LED's have a high PAR rating but is PAR everything and should it determine if you go LED or Metal Halide? I really like the idea of LED's when it comes to heat, bulb replacement and so on but so many people went from Metal Halides to LED's and I have seen them go right back to Metal Halides in a short period of time.
Maybe it all comes down to the brand LED fixture that is purchased and that determines the positive and/or negative outcome?
I have the mentality of if its not broke dont fix it. With that being said Metal Halides have worked great for the past 10 or so years that I have been using them.

Like everything else in this hobby, go with what works for you and what you like. Don't follow the "fad" and waste your hard earned money for that reason only.
On the other hand, LED's have come a long way in the past year or so. At some point in the near future I feel that they will be perfected. Maybe I will try them once my Metal Halide ballast burn out....

While I can't agree with the if it ain't broke don't fix it comment (if that were true you never would have switched to MH 10 years ago and we wouldnt be using T5's either) however.....Your 2nd sentence hits it right on the head. I do not think PAR is everything and thats the problem with the manufacturers of LEDs. They are all putting tight optics on their units to claim the high PAR as opposed to properly lighting a tank. They do this with a small LED count on a small footprint. This completely ignores tank coverage of course and whether or not someone can hang them high enough to get the spread on the tank....and then we add 3 or 4 of these units to compound the problem. Fact is these units can easily burn corals if you're not careful and without a PAR meter using your eye you will over light the tank IME. I have no doubt that most who tried LEDs and switched back simply over lit their tank and had problems. An AI sol unit is extremely powerful but you have to hang them high to (1) get the coverage & (2) not overlight your tank. This is the biggest problem I have with commercial fixtures..not to mention the cost. 500 PAR such as I can easily get on my fixture is pretty useless in practice....I'm running it at half that on the top of the tank which yields 100 on the sand in the center and around 60 on the sides where I have my chalices.

For me a properly set up LED unit lights as well as a MH with all the benefits of no heat, chiller, power useage, life, etc. Done wrong you burn stuff. I've got 1 1/2 years experience with LEDs on small and large tanks and will never switch back unless something suddenly goes wrong...and as you might imagine never buy a commercial unit either since I'm a DIY nerd which is not for everyone.

As for commercial units I do like the Sols for their use of Cree LEDs and their nice controller. Some of the other lower cost units using 120 1W LEDs are found wanting IMO....

 

[LegoZ81]

I would skip the leds. They just don't seem to have the warmth of light MH and or t5's do. I personally feel that Led lighting does not have the full spectrum look and make corals look over saturated. Your tank looks great how it is. Just my 2 cents. Good luck either way.

The problem is I have a ballast that is starting to fail, I have swapped bulbs and the problem with the bulb not striking stays with that ballast. So while I agree it looks nice I would be replacing all ballasts and bulbs at the same time so there is a large upfront cost. Which brought this up.

4 units will not be enough because they do not have wide enough optics. you will need 6 units to cover that much tank. you par numbers will be all over the place also unless you get them up at least 12 inches, look at some of the par readings on R.C. some people have done a lot of toying with them. hope this helps.

I have 21" before the top of the tank and 23" above the waterline. This assumes I don't remove the piece of plywood that my halides are mounted to currently. I am starting to look at some of the RC threads now. I guess my question is what is the downside to mounting them REALLY high? I don't have that lofty of par requirements at the sand so will four still not be enough you think? If not I have a tone more thinking to do.

Metal Halide for me. LED's have a high PAR rating but is PAR everything and should it determine if you go LED or Metal Halide? I really like the idea of LED's when it comes to heat, bulb replacement and so on but so many people went from Metal Halides to LED's and I have seen them go right back to Metal Halides in a short period of time.

See heat, power usage and bulb replacement all are working against halide for me. before my window ac units kick in the room behind my tank gets up to 95F (AC are triggered by tank temp not room temp) To think before I put this in wall all of that heat was being thrown into my house in the summer!

Maybe it all comes down to the brand LED fixture that is purchased and that determines the positive and/or negative outcome?
I have the mentality of if its not broke dont fix it. With that being said Metal Halides have worked great for the past 10 or so years that I have been using them.

From what I can gather AI will do the things I want and with correct height might provide the coverage and par I need. This is the part I am worried about, that and spectrum that is what worries my whites vs blues.

My problem is I am at the "it is almost broke", so what should I do to fix it? Go with tried and true burning arc above my tank or jump into the new tech?

Like everything else in this hobby, go with what works for you and what you like. Don't follow the "fad" and waste your hard earned money for that reason only.
On the other hand, LED's have come a long way in the past year or so. At some point in the near future I feel that they will be perfected. Maybe I will try them once my Metal Halide ballast burn out....

I have one ballast that is starting to fail, this is my problem

 

[turbo21]

I am almost in the same position as you. Its time to replace all 3 of my halide bulbs and my vho bulbs. I am looking at close to $300 for replacement. I would rather sink that money into a diy rig and save some extra cash on electricity then stick with the halides

bob

 

[LegoZ81]

I am almost in the same position as you. Its time to replace all 3 of my halide bulbs and my vho bulbs. I am looking at close to $300 for replacement. I would rather sink that money into a diy rig and save some extra cash on electricity then stick with the halides

bob

The only fortunate part, is I am not due for VHO bulbs for a while longer

 

[SethTheWineGuy]

Are LED's the future? Yes. Is AI the answer? NOOOOO! Look into DIY until they improve on the design. Here is my write up.
Aqua Illumination - THE GOOD THE BAD THE UGLY - Atlanta Reef Club Forums

 

[Reef Pets]

While I can't agree with the if it ain't broke don't fix it comment (if that were true you never would have switched to MH 10 years ago and we wouldnt be using T5's either).

Actually I only switched to Metal Halides 10 years ago because the VHO's that I was running broke, both ballast went out after using them for about 4 years. The hobby and technology was much different 10 years ago.
Many people talk about bulb replacement, has anyone seen if PAR drops or the quality of light output from an LED over a year or two period of time. From my understanding the PAR from an LED will be very high in one spot while just a couple inches over it can drop by 100 points or more due to the spot light effect.
I am not bashing LED's at all! I am just stating that I dont feel they have perfected them at this point. But, I do feel that within a short period of time one of the Chinese manufacturers will make a perfect LED for reef keeping.