TO: Non-WC reefers....how do account these elements?

[ZoWhat]

I am in NOOOO WAY trying to start a heated debate with non-WC reefers. I simply want to ask a CURIOSITY question....

If you go years without a WC, (setting aside the obvious Mag, Calc, Carbonate elements you're prob dosing),

....how do you account for potentially depleted levels of these significant elements:

Potassium 392ppm in NSW
Bromine 67.3ppm
Fluorine 13ppm
Strontium 8.1ppm
Boron 4.45ppm



.

 

[Crabs McJones]

Most non water change supplements such as Triton, I believe, include those elements in their dosing regimens. So they're replenished through minor and trace element dosing.

 

[tdileo]

ICP analysis and dose them however you want. Red Sea sells their trace colors package containing Potassium, Iodine, Iron, and other trace elements. Like said above Triton also sells them and will give you an idea of how much to put in your tank.

 

[marinesnow]

Solutions like ATI essentials and Triton Core have these and other minor/trace elements mixed into each 3 part solution (e.g. alk, calcium, mag). It doses them in proportions that they predict are depleted by corals. Triton core 7 adds additional elements to account for the elements removed by chaetomorpha (e.g. iron, molybdenum, etc...). Periodically I do an ICP test and dose whatever may be missing. For most elements, triton and ATI make individual bottles of elements you can dose. Hope this helps!

 

[ZoWhat]

Omg...explain this logic to me

$78 4bottle Triton would last me 2mos with major and trace elements added (with no reduction of no3 and po4 which is another added expense on some other product)

$65 200g drymix would last me 3-4mos with major and trace elements added (WC would somewhat reduce no3 and po4 with swap out of fresh SW)

Explain this logic.....



.

 

[KrisReef]

Changing water for a coral reef tank requires mixing and moving a lot of heavy salt and deionized water around, and when you are done the ions in the mixture are unknown unless you test.

Using a ICP test, you know what is missing, and you dose those to replenish without all the heavy lifting. Some people like to mix and test, other people like to test and dose. Everything in this hobby has a cost.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

So I am not dosing those trace elements, with exception of iodine. Some can be added back from different foods. I was dosing stronium, but haven't for months. I do target feed weekly. It will be interesting to see if I will hit a plateau of growth at some point due to it. Most of my corals are lps and zoas. Only sps is a monti that has been growing well. I don't get much enjoyment from sps keeping.

 

[Gareth elliott]

I do very few water changes.

Ati essentials for dosing.
Bio pellets for no3 and po4 control.
Gac for clear water.
Filter socks for detritus.

Not a perfect solution, but works for me. For me wc time spent was more expensive than this method.

 

[marinesnow]

Omg...explain this logic to me

$78 4bottle Triton would last me 2mos with major and trace elements added (with no reduction of no3 and po4 which is another added expense on some other product)

$65 200g drymix would last me 3-4mos with major and trace elements added (WC would somewhat reduce no3 and po4 with swap out of fresh SW)

Explain this logic.....



.

For me the time and hassle of water changes was starting to suck the fun out of the hobby. Furthermore, with no water changes I get more time to do more fun things like fragging. And last, I never have those days where I dread doing a water change. The tank is constantly happy with minimal involvement from me, and to me that’s priceless.

 

[Ron Reefman]

oops!

 

[Ron Reefman]

bad key on my computer!

 

[Sallstrom]

I work at a small public aquaria and we're sending ICP tests to Triton lab 6-8 times a year. Then we use mostly their additives to correct the parameters needed. It has worked out fine for us the last 4 years. Most of our tanks are larger ones, 4000 litres or more, so water changes are nice to aviod if there're not needed

 

[csb123]

There are a bunch of DIY additives for those elements that can be made super cheap. Check out the reef chemistry forum.

 

[jda]

The short answer is that most do not replace them and most of the rest have no idea if they are or not. Most supplements are black boxes that you take on faith and test kits are not all that reliable (or non-existant) for some of these. No WC tanks have been around for decades and they have had mixed success. Most have some corals wither away over a few years while others thrive ongoing - they focus on the ones that thrive since they fit their paradigm. Some actually do water changes, but they are rare and not routine. Everybody has to replace salt that is lost by salt creep, skimming and the like, so there are some elements that make it back in, even if very minor. A CaRx can replace some of those if you trust the analysis by Reborn and CaribSea.

I have a good friend that decided to stop changing water. His tank was fantastic for about five years. After the seventh year, he had lost most of his sensitive acropora and some zoas melted, but still had tons of easier acropora, LPS and some zoas doing well still. He was Ok with this and just let the stuff that lived thrive. On about year ten, he started to do a 50% water change once a year since all of his aragonite was filling up with phosphate and he had periods of great new growth for a few months after each water change. He has not decided to change more water even though he saw that it does positively impact the corals. Basically, he saw that some corals suffered and some did not, so he just embraced this.

 

[Skibum]

Check GlennF for ideas on no WC. I have used his method for almost a year now with no WC. You can test for things like K, B, Sr, etc. He doesn't use ICP but I do. There are several SPS heavy tanks that don't use WC that are absolutely stunning. Sr, K, and B don't deplete very rapidly. There are some no WC'ers who don't bother with these elements at all. YMMV.

 

[Gahngoo]

I wonder if not doing WCs causes bacteria and other bad, non-trace-element related issues?;Wideyed

 

[laverda]

I am in NOOOO WAY trying to start a heated debate with non-WC reefers. I simply want to ask a CURIOSITY question....

If you go years without a WC, (setting aside the obvious Mag, Calc, Carbonate elements you're prob dosing),

....how do you account for potentially depleted levels of these significant elements:

Potassium 392ppm in NSW
Bromine 67.3ppm
Fluorine 13ppm
Strontium 8.1ppm
Boron 4.45ppm

.

On my 300 I 10 ml of iron and vinegar daily in conjunction with my ATSs and Refugium to control nitrate and phosphates. I also dose 5-10ml of strontium, iodine, potassium daily based on test results. I will have to see via ICP tests if bromine and fluorine become depleted over time.