To TTM or not TTM? That is the question!

[Tower]

Hi guys,

I'm feeling a little conflicted. Allow me to explain. 12 days ago (Saturday) I added fishes 4,5, and 6 into a 16 gallon qt. It wasn't cycled as I was intending, once again, to do the Humblefish TTM for ich and velvet which initially dictates four transfers at 36 hour intervals. However, the fish were delivered to my door and in particular a blue chromis I had ordered seemed so inordinately stressed I decided to wait a few days to allow him to chill and to start feeding. As such, I added a seeded sponge filter and a heck load of seeded ceramic bio balls to manage ammonia/nitrite. So now, the fish are all feeding well and are active. I treated Tremazol prophylactically on the Monday and have done a follow up this Monday after 7 days.

So, these fish are healthy, have been de-wormed, have no signs of flukes or ich or any other illness so the question is should I still do the tank transfer method for ich/velvet or should I just monitor for a few more weeks and add to the dt if nothing presents?

If there was ich or velvet present in the tank wouldn't I have seen it by now in the 12 days I have had them?

I've settled on TTM as I don't want to use copper.

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions in advance.

Tower

 

[blaxsun]

You would think so, but sometimes velvet lurks... I don't know how many fish you have in your DT, but if you're using the TTM and it's been working - I'd stick with it. The last thing you want is to inadvertently let a 'carrier' into your DT and case more problems.

 

[Squidward]

Yes you can't go wrong with TTM. I did the regular TTM and have had great success.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi guys,

I'm feeling a little conflicted. Allow me to explain. 12 days ago (Saturday) I added fishes 4,5, and 6 into a 16 gallon qt. It wasn't cycled as I was intending, once again, to do the Humblefish TTM for ich and velvet which initially dictates four transfers at 36 hour intervals. However, the fish were delivered to my door and in particular a blue chromis I had ordered seemed so inordinately stressed I decided to wait a few days to allow him to chill and to start feeding. As such, I added a seeded sponge filter and a heck load of seeded ceramic bio balls to manage ammonia/nitrite. So now, the fish are all feeding well and are active. I treated Tremazol prophylactically on the Monday and have done a follow up this Monday after 7 days.

So, these fish are healthy, have been de-wormed, have no signs of flukes or ich or any other illness so the question is should I still do the tank transfer method for ich/velvet or should I just monitor for a few more weeks and add to the dt if nothing presents?

If there was ich or velvet present in the tank wouldn't I have seen it by now in the 12 days I have had them?

I've settled on TTM as I don't want to use copper.

Thanks for any thoughts or opinions in advance.

Tower

No - ich or velvet can remain hidden as a subacute infection for long periods. Essentially, it could be as long as the longest fallow period beyond when the last trophont dropped off the fish (76+ days).

I'm not a fan of TTM, even the peroxide version. I think it is rough to handle fish like that, just at a point when they are at the most vulnerable. I also don't think it controls velvet very well. It certainly won't control flukes, but you have that covered already.

Copper gets a bad rap because people don't dose it correctly. They take too long to ramp it up, go with too low of a dose, or use poor test kits to measure it. I haven't lost a fish to copper for well over a decade, not since I stopped using copper/citric acid formulation (that is the one that causes all of the sensitivity issues).

Jay

 

[Tower]

No - ich or velvet can remain hidden as a subacute infection for long periods. Essentially, it could be as long as the longest fallow period beyond when the last trophont dropped off the fish (76+ days).

I'm not a fan of TTM, even the peroxide version. I think it is rough to handle fish like that, just at a point when they are at the most vulnerable. I also don't think it controls velvet very well. It certainly won't control flukes, but you have that covered already.

Copper gets a bad rap because people don't dose it correctly. They take too long to ramp it up, go with too low of a dose, or use poor test kits to measure it. I haven't lost a fish to copper for well over a decade, not since I stopped using copper/citric acid formulation (that is the one that causes all of the sensitivity issues).

Jay

Jay,

Thanks for your comments. If I were to continue to monitor these fish up to 90 days and there was no evidence of disease would you then be assured there was no ich or velvet? Or would you advocate longer still? I'm a very patient guy so would do so happily.

 

[Reef AquaCult]

dont be afraid of copper or TTM. The experts advise one of these methods for a reason. With observation alone you can still miss things. Chromis in particular are very susceptible to uronema so i would recommend treating aggressively for this in your scenario.

 

[Tower]

dont be afraid of copper or TTM. The experts advise one of these methods for a reason. With observation alone you can still miss things. Chromis in particular are very susceptible to uronema so i would recommend treating aggressively for this in your scenario.

Hi, thanks. Not a disease I have heard of to be perfectly honest and after a quick read I now have another reason to lose sleep at night!

Are you suggesting treating prophylactically and if so how?

 

[Reef AquaCult]

Hi, thanks. Not a disease I have heard of to be perfectly honest and after a quick read I now have another reason to lose sleep at night!

Are you suggesting treating prophylactically and if so how?

Yeah I know this hobby is a pain in the butt you are basically a fish vet if you want to have healthy animals.

Uronema marinum

Uronema marinum What You Need To Know: * These are the red sores most often seen on chromis damsels; however it can afflict any fish. * Treatment of choice is a 45 minute formalin bath (e.g. Quick Cure), followed by transfer into a new/sterile QT. * Once in QT, it is very important to do...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Jay,

Thanks for your comments. If I were to continue to monitor these fish up to 90 days and there was no evidence of disease would you then be assured there was no ich or velvet? Or would you advocate longer still? I'm a very patient guy so would do so happily.

There are very few instances where ich can 100% be guaranteed to be removed from a tank. Waiting 90 days is pretty safe, but it is still possible to have a chronic infection brewing in the tank. Even a comprehensive quarantine protocol never really gets to a guaranteed clearing of all diseases. That said, when people see a spontaneous disease outbreak in an established tank, it is very often due to some unrecognized failure in the biosecurity of the tank. Here is an article I posted about that:

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Jay Hemdal

 

[Tower]

There are very few instances where ich can 100% be guaranteed to be removed from a tank. Waiting 90 days is pretty safe, but it is still possible to have a chronic infection brewing in the tank. Even a comprehensive quarantine protocol never really gets to a guaranteed clearing of all diseases. That said, when people see a spontaneous disease outbreak in an established tank, it is very often due to some unrecognized failure in the biosecurity of the tank. Here is an article I posted about that:

Biosecurity

A short introduction to aquarium biosecurity

www.reef2reef.com

Jay Hemdal

Thanks Jay