Too many swaps?

[gparr]

My only frame of reference is the Great Lakes states, but it seems to me that we are at a point where there are too many swaps and all are suffering. In the past three months, there were probably only three weekends when I couldn't attend a swap within a 4- to 5-hr. drive, and none of them experienced strong attendance. We just had the Midwest FragFest, a two-day event this past weekend. One seller described attendance as being half of last year, which was down considerably from the previous/first year of the event. My observations would support that.

In my forum readings, it appears that there are a lot of swaps being held elsewhere in the country, too.

Are there too many swaps?

As for what to do, probably nothing. Economics and waning volunteer/club member enthusiasm will weed out the weak events, not to mention that, at some point, we all simply run out of tank room.

Gary

 

[kev2me]

It seems like a lot happen the same weekend or at least 1 weekend apart from one another lately.

The C-Sea swap in Cleveland was great, lots of people attended. Then two weeks later we had the choice of going to either the Indy INDMAS swap or the one at Penn State since they were on the same day, d'oh! We went to the Indy swap and sold a lot of stuff for being hobbyists. I heard the Penn State one did not have the best turnout.

Then a week later was the Illinois one, but that was too much of a drive for us.

If you don't have much to swap/sell, then multiple swaps in succession won't help much. Not enough time for anything to grow or heal from being fragged.

Luckily there is a break in the schedule in my area. The next swap near me is the Dayton Swap and Pittsburgh swap... But both are on the same day! >_<

What to do, what to do.

 

[chadfarmer]

I went to the midwest frag fest last year and i wasnt impressed

 

[coralfarm123]

For the INDMAS swap in Indy last week, we had the most people we've ever had. There were more hobbyist bringing in small tanks trading and selling than ever before, and some great vendors came from all over the midwest and upper midwest. I went to the Cincy swap last October and it seemed to have a good amount of attendees as well. It could be that the date was just too close to others in the area or maybe the Midwest Frag swap just had down attendance for some other reason.

 

[Braves Fan]

We haven't any swaps where I live at, so count yourselfs lucky. it could be the other way around.

 

[SDguy]

In the past three months, there were probably only three weekends when I couldn't attend a swap within a 4- to 5-hr. drive, and none of them experienced strong attendance.

Wow! You are a trooper! reefers around here are fickle, and driving such distances isn't very popular Heck, we even have 2-3 clubs in the county just so people don't have to drive more than 20-30 minutes to attend meetings :-/

 

[gparr]

Wow! You are a trooper! reefers around here are fickle, and driving such distances isn't very popular Heck, we even have 2-3 clubs in the county just so people don't have to drive more than 20-30 minutes to attend meetings :-/

I didn't attend all of those swaps. It was just possible. I like to think I have more of a life than that!
Gary

 

[Rouselb]

I just drove over 2 hrs to attend the Grand Rapids swap in Michigan. It was worth the drive, lots of good deals. I did notice that most of the people who brought setups didnt sell anything that was not already pre-paid. Seems many reefers are holding onto their cash.

 

[SaraB]

I just drove over 2 hrs to attend the Grand Rapids swap in Michigan. It was worth the drive, lots of good deals. I did notice that most of the people who brought setups didnt sell anything that was not already pre-paid. Seems many reefers are holding onto their cash.

It appeared that many people attending that swap were more interested in spending money on the raffle tickets rather than on corals!

 

[Rouselb]

You cant blame them, I bought $5 worth and i won Rods food and a Tyree purple tip Staghorn acropora. Now, thats a sweet deal!
So you noticed it too?? Usually people are buying like crazy, I saw some killer deals, dave and paul were killing me!

 

[goat585]

Gary,

FYI This year's Fragfest was down approx 25% from the year before. Foster and Smith in 2008 was down about the same from what I have heard. Personally I think that there are too many bigger events that are happening. Small frag swaps are one thing but most the events now have mulitple speakers, online vendors, manufacturers and large raffles.

I think that since all the fragswaps are getting away from being fragswaps it is watering down the events. Speakers are giving the same presentations at a lot of the events, the same coral vendors are at most of the regional events. Donations for the raffles are starting to become more difficult. Sure the ecomony is partly to blame here but there has to have been 15-20 events in the Midwest in the last 2-3 months. Are the manufacturers going to donate to all? At some point they are going to not donate because they already donated enough.

Personally I think that clubs will end up going back to smaller events. They are much easier to run for the clubs and I believe a better source of income.

 

[goat585]

I went to the midwest frag fest last year and i wasnt impressed

Why were you not impressed? What were you looking for or expecting?

 

[goat585]

SOOO , you dont think that the hobby; becoming easier to afford, correct info becoming easier to obtain, and better equipment being produced(somtimes) are contributing to increased interest and numbers of involved aquarists?

In my opinion,
The number of swap meets/ conventions has only swelled due to market demand, sure there will be duds, but overall these conventions are not only making it easier for you the consumer to collect your much coveted tyree le, but is also drawing in new blood and decreases wild harvesting. Also they increase public awareness of our ecological impacts on our oceans. (ie; over harvesting, cyanide poisoning, invasive species spreading, and ocean acidification)We should all feel lucky to be able to attend these events, at least those who are lucky enough to have them in our community.

Not sure if you were responding to me or not but:

I agree with your points but that is not the point that I was trying to make. I think swaps and clubs are a great thing for the hobby. I am the VP of one and spends hours of my time promoting the hobby on a local level and organizing such events.

I guess what I was trying to say is that:

I believe that the increase in growth of these events is not sustainable over the long run and will eventually lead to smaller less taxing events on the clubs. I could be wrong but that is what I was trying to say.

 

[chadfarmer]

Why were you not impressed? What were you looking for or expecting?

i wasnt impressed with the stuff being sold --- to many wild colonys for me i guess or sps frags that were 60 about the size of an erasor and not LE

(but i did see a lot of zoos with nudis and eggs there)

 

[meisen]

I guess it depends on your perspective. MWFF was smaller than last year I agree but if I wasnt moving in a month I would have cleaned up several sellers booths I think . I had fun as it was anyway. There was an amazing array of livestock for sale there for sure at just about every price point you could want. I brought home less than I came with and got to hang out with reefers all weekend. Cant beat that.

Perhaps with the economy the way it is and all this amazing coral coming in these days its just going to shift to a buyers market for a while, I dunno.

 

[freddy4130]

I have a better theory. I think. We just had this discussion at our local club because a nearby club was sort of hurt about a swap scheduled just a month after theirs. Here is my theory. Nobody is going to become a millionaire selling miniature corals out of tupperware in a rented hotel meeting room. So I say we embrace the opportunities and deal with it. The point is to go to a swap and get cool stuff. If your tank looks better than if you had not attended, then your goals were met. If you are the vendor, you should probably re-evaluate your intentions. Can you make enough for your next prize coral? Sure. Are you going to buy a car with profits from an annual frag swap? Prolly not. I say bring them on. ALL of them.

 

[RUGDOG]

I agree freddy...wish I would have known about and could have attended more years ago when I first started out. I might have learned more quicker and been more succesful earlier in my hobby. Hope our next one has a good crowd!

 

[gflat65]

It gets more dfficult to get good vendors and raffle items as numbers decline at swaps (due to increased numbers of swaps). With club activity, you can quickly have a little of something in everyone's tank, so you try to bring in people from surrounding areas. If they don't make enough to cover travel expenses (hotel, gas, food), as well as make a little for their time setting up and breaking down, they decide not to come again. As the variety of the stock begins to diminish, fewer people participate. As the attendance numbers fall, raffle items start to get less and less. I've been asked by most vendors how many people are expected at the swap. You get different donations based on the numbers you give them.

It's the nature of the beast, though, I think. Watching supply and demand works for evaluating this in most cases, too. Swaps are a great thing to bring to areas, as it opens people eyes to a lot of things that they just aren't going to pick up at a LFS (learning is often so much easier when it is experiential learning). Seeing what all is availabel outside what the LFS always has and seeing those nice corals broken into peices and glued to rocks seem to be the biggests areas of interest for most first timers. I don't know that too many are a problem, but as the numbers increase, if there isn't some sort of loose overall structure, companies will begin giving much smaller donations (they can't keep supporting a growing number of swaps with larger gifts), making it more difficult to draw people from outside the area. I've already seen some of this since begging for donations for our first swaps back in 2004 (MTRC). Most of the area swaps are still growing each time, but over the next five years or so, I'd expect a plateau, then a decline in some (while others continue to grow). I've hit every one but one in the Tennessee area and and now the Alabama area (no one else in the south really puts on shows until you hit Florida or Ohio, it seems), so I'll continue to hit every one I can. If nothing else, there is a sociological experiment in there somewhere (several, actually).

 

[freddy4130]

Anytime a hobby goes sort of mainstream, it sort if lends itself to people trying to cash in. People try to make money and things change within the hobby. For some people it's a good thing and for some it's bad. I think all this is part of the evolution of any hobby. Take it from someone who was a working magician when David blain blew up the scene. It's always worse for the people making money. In this case, it's the people loading up gear tryingbto sell frags at the swaps. For me it's awesome cause I'm not that guy.