Too Much Flow?

[JSB]

I have 2 MP10s in a 60 cube (24x24x24), which are together capable of producing 3000gph of flow, in addition to my return pump which is likely around 700gph at zero head, and probably more like 3 or 4 hundred at the current 4' head height.

Since I set the tank up, I have been running both MP10 at around 60% at night and 80-90% during the day. My frogspawn has survived this, but only really started to flourish when tucked away in a back corner. Also, I added a nice wellsophyllia about 3 months back that opened fully for a day or so, only to shut down and remain so until now. I pulled the wellso and put in in my Q-tank and it has begun to plump back up, further supporting my too much flow belief.

My tank has some SPS, most of which seems to be doing well, and none appearing adversely affected by the high flow. I used the Ecotech Marine Calculator to spec out my tank providing the following results:

Given this, I believe that I probably need to run my pumps at no more than 50-60%. If I want to get the LPS and the SPS to play nice together. I am only concerned that the 1500-1800gph random flow in the tank might not be enough for the SPS, and still might be too much for the LPS. What should be looking for regards the SPS to indicate that this is not enough? What is the rule of thumb for flow? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Nebraska Reef]

I'm kind of dealing with the same issue on a larger tank. I would observe growth and polyp extension. You may need to adjust the scape so the LPs are shielded from the flow.

In addition you may consider a way to alternate your return. A om squirt or a scwd. I've not had any trouble with my 3/⁴ or my 1" models. Others have though.

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[Nebraska Reef]

Also, you may consider moving your MPs to a higher position.

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[JSB]

I'm kind of dealing with the same issue on a larger tank. I would observe growth and polyp extension. You may need to adjust the scape so the LPs are shielded from the flow.

In addition you may consider a way to alternate your return. A om squirt or a scwd. I've not had any trouble with my 3/⁴ or my 1" models. Others have though.

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Worth considering, thanks.

Also, you may consider moving your MPs to a higher position.

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They are both in the upper half to upper third of the tank already, so that is out.

 

[beaslbob]

WOW

the news here is someone in lincoln nebraska is posting.

 

[pickupman66]

LOL @ Bob.

One thing I learned about frogspawn is they seem to love a flow that lets them bounce gently in the current. any more than that and they dont seem to do as well. if they are not moving, they dont grow.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

I'd go with your gut feeling on this, Scott. If you can create a spot with less flow by moving one of your MP10's or reducing overall flow, you might be able to keep everyone happy.

I am still contemplating adding a MP40 to my 180 eventually. When I was talking with Dave earlier this week, he told me that he ended up removing his MP40 from his 125 due to too much flow.

As for the flow for SPS, they do fine with moderate water flow. In a tank with strong water current, SPS's grow thicker branches with tips that turn toward the flow. I've seen that the same SPS's (coming from the same mother colony) grow thinner branches and look more delicate in a tank with less flow. They were just as healthy as their stubby twins.

 

[JSB]

Well a single MP40 on a 120, assuming no other flow, is about what the mfr recommends, but they cannot output less than 1000gph. With a big return pump, and a powerhead or two I could see a 40 being to much. However, on the end of your 180 it would probably make a great standing wave. I like my 10s because of all the things I can do with them, particularly as a set and paired with the APEX. What I am probably going to do is cut the flow to 60% and set up a gyre flow using anti-sync mode, like a little saltwater washing machine.

My problem is, I have fallen victim to the constant posts needing "More Flow! More Flow!", giving me the sense that you can never get too much. That makes me a little skeptical about not using all I can get out of those pumps. I will watch how my frogspawn reacts, and look for good PE on my sticks. In a few days when I think my wellso is feeling a bit better, I will put him back in an see how he reacts.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Good luck
I will try to get an MP40 when I recover financially from multiple kids' weddings and before another big expense or the 3rd child tries to get married.

 

[JSB]

Yeah, not a purchase entered into lightly.

 

[Chameleon]

I have a mp40 and korallia 1400 on my 60 and love all the flow for the sps. The lps do seem to take a hit with all the flow, but some of my sticks colored up better with more flow. In the course of a few months I went from one korallia 1050 to one korallia 1050 and 1400 and now have the mp40 and 1400 and I am loving the upgrade. The elegance coral loves the high flow too even though he has more flesh on him then any other coral in the tank. I have had to shield the wellso by some rocks and he is doing good. The candy canes get somewhat laminar flow on one side and that side always looks a bit funny but its still growing. The ones that dont like all the flow are some types of zoas and the wellso. btw the mp 40 is probably between 60-70%. oh also anything directly in front of the mp40 tends to sluff tissue and look bad...i call it the 'pressure washer effect' (patent pending).

 

[Dave3112]

I wouldn't say that the MP10's are too much flow but they COULD be. I would try turning them down to 60% during the day and see how the stuff likes it. Like Tomoko said I got rid of my MP40's on my 125 because they were too much for my tank. Even on 50% they were moving my sand bed around. Now I have 2 Tunze 6045 nano streams and a MP10. There is still quite a bit of flow in the tank the SPS are doing very well and my LPS are starting to forgive me for the pounding they were taking. So I think you can turn your pumps down and see how it does. If it's still too much try running just one of them and see how your tank likes it. SPS like flow but I don't think GPH affects things as much as RANDOM flow does. If the polyps are moving it will be happy. IME. Also I'm not a proponent of huge return pumps. I am only running a mag 7 for my return on the 125....

 

[JSB]

I went to 50% lagoon at night and 65% Reef Crest during the day. My pavona and millepora still show nice random polyp movement and the birds nest still has good PE. My GSP could seem to care less, and my xenia are less elongated and much better looking, actually pulsing again. I moved my wellso to the Q-tank and it is opening back up and looking much better; probably 70% of its original size. This weekend I will move it back after it has had a rest from an apparently stressful 10 weeks.

As for the return, my tank came with a no name garden pump for a return, and I bought a Mag 9.5 to replace it, but soon decided it was probably too much. I still may use it, but not without a gate valve. Or, if I could sell it, I might buy a 7. I don't trust the "Jaebo" pump, so at a minimum I have to have a spare handy.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

Have you consider an Eheim pump for the return, Scott? As you might have noticed, I am a big fan of Eheim pumps. Mag pumps tend to generate heat a lot.

You may not be concerned about the excess heat generated by Mag 7 or Mag 9.5 since you run a Radion instead of MH or T-5. When I mix salt water, I use Mag 7 in my 24 gallon container. If I run my Mag 7 just for a few hours in summer, my water temp goes up easily over 90 degrees. With my house temp set to 77 in the summer time, any heat generated by a pump is a problem for me.

 

[JSB]

Well, that was a bit of a mistake on my part. I bought the 9.5 a while back and it was sitting on the shelf to be swapped for the return, so I was unaware of the heat they generate. Then I become discontented with my MJ1200 and Eheim 1052 something or other (mini pump) that were driving my BP Reactor and my Carbon Reactor respectively as the were underpowered for the task. So I ordered 2 MAG 3s (way overpowered to the task I know now) and had to throttle them back with a gate valve. Regardless, my temps jumped 3 degrees. I wound up pulling the 3 off of the Carbon and returning to the Eheim, which knocked a degree off. I need to eventually get the other 3 off the tank, and then would use one or both of the 3s as external pumps to plumb my SW/FW station. So yeah, i would be interested in a recommendation for an Eheim that is comparable to the range between a M7 or M9.5.

 

[Tomoko Schum]

The flow rate of Eheim 1260 is 634 gph but its flow is much stronger than Mag 7 at 4ft of head. You really don't need so much flow for a return pump as long as you have adequate flow in your display tank with powerheads.

 

[robf]

I've owned MP10's and like them on my 48 gallon bowfront but they are kind of noisy. I think it stems from having the glass between the motor and the pump. It resonates in a way that can be quite annoying when you run some of the wave functions. I'm going with Tunze on my next tank even though they might put off more heat. Don't get me wrong. Both are excellent products. I just think Tunze does a better powerhead.

 

[JSB]

I've owned MP10's and like them on my 48 gallon bowfront but they are kind of noisy. I think it stems from having the glass between the motor and the pump. It resonates in a way that can be quite annoying when you run some of the wave functions. I'm going with Tunze on my next tank even though they might put off more heat. Don't get me wrong. Both are excellent products. I just think Tunze does a better powerhead.

I never hear mine unless it kicks over to Nutrient Transport Mode and if it set on 100%. Other than that they are quiet. They will get noisy if they are misaligned though, but that is a simple one-time adjustment.

 

[robf]

They are aligned and clean. It's not that the pumps are horrible. They have a ton of fantastic other qualities. Silent operation is just not one of them. Its just that in certain modes they do make more noise. I do run my pumps at more than 50% often and that may also play into it. Also, it may be the acoustics of my room are different. A wooden floor for instance will transmit more noise than a concrete basement floor. The HUGE plus for the pump is that the motor is not in the water to heat it up. Also, they take up less space than other powerheads in the display. Bottom line. They look great and perform well. Some people however will find the noise of certain reef modes annoying.

 

[Chameleon]

Just a thought if you dont use the proper spacers for your glass they can be more noisy. LEts say your glass is too thin then they could be too noisy and you may benefit from putting a thicker rubber pad between the glass and the wet side to space it away and reduce noise. Not sure if this is your issue but a thought.

They are aligned and clean. It's not that the pumps are horrible. They have a ton of fantastic other qualities. Silent operation is just not one of them. Its just that in certain modes they do make more noise. I do run my pumps at more than 50% often and that may also play into it. Also, it may be the acoustics of my room are different. A wooden floor for instance will transmit more noise than a concrete basement floor. The HUGE plus for the pump is that the motor is not in the water to heat it up. Also, they take up less space than other powerheads in the display. Bottom line. They look great and perform well. Some people however will find the noise of certain reef modes annoying.