Too much or Too little light for Frogspawn

[Scubabum]

Having trouble keeping Frogspawn. I'm losing my second frag. Everything else in tank is doing well. Lighting is Kessil Ap700 set at 32% at peek of day. Just wanted thoughts on my lighting and intensity. Flow is two Mp10's opposite walls on 36inch wide tank set at Reefcrest at 50%

0900-1000 55 Par
1100-1200 83 Par
1300-1600 120 Par
1700-1800 80 Par
1900 50 Par
2000 Lights out.

Param:
Ph 8.2
Sg 1.025
alk 8.4
Calc 460
Mag 1380
Nitrate 5ppm
Phos. 0

 

[germs101]

I'm having a similar problem. I can't figure out if it's my lighting or flow. Everyone else is fine, but my frogspawn is always shrunken. I just switched to leds before getting my frag, and my peak intensity is 30%.

 

[chefjpaul]

Most likely to much flow.

Where is it located? How old is tank?
Post a pic for reference.

If your po4 is correct, its also low.

 

[Scubabum]

Most likely to much flow.

Where is it located? How old is tank?
Post a pic for reference.

If your po4 is correct, its also low.

It's located on the bottom tucked in close to a Rock. It was barely swaying in the flow,before it lost most of its polyps. Strange thing is it has some baby heads growing on the stem. The tank is 20+ years old. I'll try and post a pic later. The p04 is checked using a Hanna Tester. I pulled my GFO offline this morning. This is driving me crazy. Had the same problem with a few Duncan frags. The last Duncan frag I added had two heads and now had 8. It's in the same exact spot as the two that perished. Maybe just bad luck and my third frogspawn will thrive.

 

[Diesel]

A FTS will help.
Correct on the Po4, it's on the low side.
How long do you have the frogspawn in your system?

 

[Scubabum]

A FTS will help.
Correct on the Po4, it's on the low side.
How long do you have the frogspawn in your system?

I'll have to post Pic later, The Frogspawn has been in for about 5 months. It started out nice and developed a huge translucent bubble in the middle then slowly receded. If confused on the Po4. I thought it should be zero or near zero. I feed mysis, reef chili, Coral vitalizer and amino acid concentrate a couple of times a week. How do you maintain some level of Po4? Whenever I add GFO It always reduces it down to Zero. Without GFO it climbes to the .10-.16 range.

 

[Diesel]

That's the miss understanding a lot off hobbyist have about Po4, it ain't something toxic but on the other hand it provide nutrients to your corals as nitrate will do too.
If you run at most LPS in your tank your level of 0.10 is perfect.
I know about reefers that keep their Po4 at 0.18 and they have tons of SPS.

 

[Scubabum]

That's the miss understanding a lot off hobbyist have about Po4, it ain't something toxic but on the other hand it provide nutrients to your corals as nitrate will do too.
If you run at most LPS in your tank your level of 0.10 is perfect.
I know about reefers that keep their Po4 at 0.18 and they have tons of SPS.

THANK YOU so much for this. I'm so frustrated. I'm going to leave GFO offline for a while and see how things go. I only have LPS and softies. I'm also going to try Biopellets instead of Vodka dosing. My Reactor arrives Monday. I'm just looking to get away from the daily dosing of Vodka. So What do you think of the Lighting Par values? Is it about right or should I slowly crank them up?

 

[Diesel]

I would crank them up slowly.
My frogspawns are in 200+ par and doing great.

 

[chefjpaul]

I'd personally go easy on pellets, your no3 is about perfect.

I also have many frogs and hammers directly under intense lighting, around 200 - low /medium flow.

 

[mcarroll]

Ap700 set at 32% at peek

1300-1600 120 Par

I'm having a similar problem. I can't figure out if it's my lighting or flow. Everyone else is fine, but my frogspawn is always shrunken. I just switched to leds before getting my frag, and my peak intensity is 30%.

@germs101 Get a $free [HASHTAG]#lux[/HASHTAG] [HASHTAG]#meter[/HASHTAG] app for your smartphone and take some surface measurements at peak lighting and see what you get. (Check in here or PM me to double check your first measurements if they seem off. Not all apps work equally well with all phone cameras, apparently.)

Seems like this will apply to you too though....

@Scubabum From what I can tell, most corals reach their light compensation point around 5000-10000 lux (100-200 PAR).

With your 6000 lux peak from 1pm to 4pm, you're just touching on that compensation point - or maybe even not quite touching on it - for a short time during the day.

If those PAR measurements are at the coral (underwater), can you take some surface readings and tell us what peak reading you get?

Also, still interested in seeing that tank shot....a vid (post to youtube or something and post the link here) clip would be even better to show the flow.

(Just because lighting is definitely an issue doesn't mean flow isn't also an issue. All stresses count.)

 

[thaitopher]

Having trouble keeping Frogspawn. I'm losing my second frag. Everything else in tank is doing well. Lighting is Kessil Ap700 set at 32% at peek of day. Just wanted thoughts on my lighting and intensity. Flow is two Mp10's opposite walls on 36inch wide tank set at Reefcrest at 50%

0900-1000 55 Par
1100-1200 83 Par
1300-1600 120 Par
1700-1800 80 Par
1900 50 Par
2000 Lights out.

Param:
Ph 8.2
Sg 1.025
alk 8.4
Calc 460
Mag 1380
Nitrate 5ppm
Phos. 0

I know this is a delayed response buy I saw this post in a related search. My frogspawn coral got about 80 PAR but it was looking bleached so I moved it up to a location where it gets about 220 PAR. What kind of PAR is your frogspawn under now?

 

[Scubabum]

I know this is a delayed response buy I saw this post in a related search. My frogspawn coral got about 80 PAR but it was looking bleached so I moved it up to a location where it gets about 220 PAR. What kind of PAR is your frogspawn under now?

I forgot all about this post. I have several frogspawn now. they are all sitting at about 200 Par. Not sure why I was losing them when I posted this. My parameters are about the same with the exception of Phos which now runs at .03-.04... I started the newest frogspawn at the par values listed above and slowly adjusted them to current level. Possible I was just getting bad frags.

 

[Mal11224]

I have a similar setup. With an ap700 at 50%. My mp10s are off set at the same height. One behind the rocks and one in front. Upper third on the glass. I have a lot of LPS corals. Most of my SPS corals are near the top. The LPS are doing well in my tank. I stopped using NOPOX as it deprived my refugium of nutrients to grow my macro algae. All I do now is dose. I use alk and calcium fortified with supplements. My refugium does a great job keeping PO4 at zero. So, flow can be a problem but I also think you may need more light intensity.

 

[Scubabum]

I have a similar setup. With an ap700 at 50%. My mp10s are off set at the same height. One behind the rocks and one in front. Upper third on the glass. I have a lot of LPS corals. Most of my SPS corals are near the top. The LPS are doing well in my tank. I stopped using NOPOX as it deprived my refugium of nutrients to grow my macro algae. All I do now is dose. I use alk and calcium fortified with supplements. My refugium does a great job keeping PO4 at zero. So, flow can be a problem but I also think you may need more light intensity.

Yeah my Ap700 is currently at 52 percent and frogspawns are now at around 200 par and all doing well.

 

[thaitopher]

I forgot all about this post. I have several frogspawn now. they are all sitting at about 200 Par. Not sure why I was losing them when I posted this. My parameters are about the same with the exception of Phos which now runs at .03-.04... I started the newest frogspawn at the par values listed above and slowly adjusted them to current level. Possible I was just getting bad frags.

Good to know. I am pretty sure 80 PAR was waaaay to low for my frogspawn.

 

[thaitopher]

I have a similar setup. With an ap700 at 50%. My mp10s are off set at the same height. One behind the rocks and one in front. Upper third on the glass. I have a lot of LPS corals. Most of my SPS corals are near the top. The LPS are doing well in my tank. I stopped using NOPOX as it deprived my refugium of nutrients to grow my macro algae. All I do now is dose. I use alk and calcium fortified with supplements. My refugium does a great job keeping PO4 at zero. So, flow can be a problem but I also think you may need more light intensity.

What is your frogspawn PAR?

 

[Mal11224]

What is your frogspawn PAR?

My PAR in that part of the tank ranges from 153 - 177 at peak intensity. The spread of this light is good near the bottom. I use the seneye for my numbers.

 

[mcarroll]

Nitrate 5ppm
Phos. 0

5ppm on nitrates is even to low for a tank full of growing critters IMO. ≥10 ppm would be my suggestion.

0ppm on phosphates is asking for trouble on many fronts. ≥0.10 ppm would be my suggestion.

Without GFO it climbes to the .10-.16 range.

Perfect! Even up to 0.20 ppm probably won't cause problem in a balanced system. Problem solved – no more GFO.

I'm also going to try Biopellets instead of Vodka dosing.

Try no carbon dosing instead – low carbon levels are much better for your tank, generally speaking. And nitrates are not the enemy either. If you insist on carbon dosing, then vinegar is by far the safest...least associated with cyano blooms. Get a cheap jebao doser or add it to your ATO reservoir if manual is a problem.

Is it about right or should I slowly crank them up?

What size tank? What were the measurements you posted? I'd be interested to know what you read at the waterline, if possible.

It's hard to imagine that any tank that's small enough to be run by two mp10's and that's lit by an AP700 could need more light. Don't waste any time addressing those nutrient issues.

 

[Scubabum]

Just wanted to thank everyone for the recent reponses to this post. The post is about a year old and I have since solved all my problems. I changed a few things and everything is doing well. I no longer run GFO, and my phos is at .03 and Nitrate runs between 5-10 ppm. I removed one MP10 and added a Gyre 130 and slowly raised the intensity on the AP700 from 32% to 50% and everything is doing well. All Euphyllia are growing and I recently fragged a Torch for my new tank build. Even added 5 SPS frags which have encrusted and are growing well. Thanks again.