Torch coral darkened after feeding

[ScottR]

New update. I just got back from the gym and the 2 Torches that went into hiding are back out and the one that was in hiding yesterday has gone back into hiding. Its just weird, to me, that the other two torches only go into hiding at night when the light is turned off. The color situation is the same, 4 torches are dark and 1 is light. One of the torches I presumed dead has a few short tentacles exposed that are also white so I suspect the light ones have health issues. All of the pictures I can find of these torches online all have the darker color so maybe it was just light because it was hungry. I don't really know, yet, but I'll keep monitoring the situation.

Keep in mind that it’s normal for corals to retract and come back out. Typically they usually close up after lights out and come back out after lights on. They might even catch something to eat during the day and close up to put food into their mouth.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I don’t want to be a Debby downer but for the long run it’s better to rehome the corals and finish the nitrogen cycle. There shouldn’t be any ammonia present in a cycled tank for coral to thrive. There’s articles here on how to get started there. Without a completed nitrogen cycle in the long run the coral will die.

I have used Prime to eliminate the ammonia. The tank has been cycling for about 18 days so at this point the Ammonia should be gone and the nitrites lowering, which I should be able to test soon. Up until a few days ago I had 2 air stones in the tank, and the tank temperature has been between 86F and 87.8F (30-31C) for the first two weeks which would increase the speed of the nitrogen cycle. I added a fan to try to bring the temperature down but that had little effect. It has rained for the past 3 days which brought the temperature down. Either way there is no place to rehome the corals to, AFAIK this is the only surviving salt water aquarium in the town I live. Others have tried and the ocean water bacteria killed their fish but they didn't use a UV sterilizer which I'm hoping is enough to get this tank to survive. The good news is that the coral is having a good day today and the 5 torches are all blooming more than ever.

 

[ScottR]

I have used Prime to eliminate the ammonia. The tank has been cycling for about 18 days so at this point the Ammonia should be gone and the nitrites lowering, which I should be able to test soon. Up until a few days ago I had 2 air stones in the tank, and the tank temperature has been between 86F and 87.8F (30-31C) for the first two weeks which would increase the speed of the nitrogen cycle. I added a fan to try to bring the temperature down but that had little effect. It has rained for the past 3 days which brought the temperature down. Either way there is no place to rehome the corals to, AFAIK this is the only surviving salt water aquarium in the town I live. Others have tried and the ocean water bacteria killed their fish but they didn't use a UV sterilizer which I'm hoping is enough to get this tank to survive. The good news is that the coral is having a good day today and the 5 torches are all blooming more than ever.

Prime actually won’t eliminate ammonia but just bind to it and hide it basically. Your tank will still need to be cycled. Just give it time and try not to add any other livestock until then.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Prime actually won’t eliminate ammonia but just bind to it and hide it basically. Your tank will still need to be cycled. Just give it time and try not to add any other livestock until then.

Would livestock include plants? I'm trying to locate some seagrass as a long term solution for nitrates, but so far no luck.

 

[ScottR]

Would livestock include plants? I'm trying to locate some seagrass as a long term solution for nitrates, but so far no luck.

Talking macro algae? Of course you can do that. That stuff grows in all kinds of conditions. Keep in mind that it’s only going to help you control nutrients but won’t help cycle your tank. You can look into running a refugium or “fuge”. You don’t need fancy expensive lights to keep it alive and thriving. Chaeto seems to be the go-to for most.

 

[ylreefer]

I'd agree with most comments here, unfortunately I think this is a case of rushing. 3 weeks to fully cycle a tank does seem a little to quick, of course its possible depending on how it was done, also as already stated most freshwater bacteria won't live in saltwater, this together with the fact that you already have live stock would lead me to believe that the cycle isn't in fact complete.

As you've said rehoming the livestock which would be the best practice isn't possible unfortunately, which is a shame. I do feel that for the longevity and success of your reef this would be the ideal solution.

Now putting that all aside, it is normal for corals to behave oddly from time to time. Torch corals and hammer corals that have a number of heads will not always have all of them open simultaneously for a number of reasons, so I wouldn't worry (as there's nothing much you can do about it now) unless you see all heads closed up for a number of days. Although it would be advisable to test your parameters.

I have a torch that had 5 heads, it fell face down into the sand and was there however long before I came home from work. I repositioned it and one head died out.

That was about 2 months ago now and as already stated I'd suggest leaving the dead heads attached for a while as they can regrow, albeit at a very slow rate ime.

I've attached a photo of mine with the new growth circled. It's actually now got 6 heads ao seems to be doing weel and hopefully will continue to do so.

Good luck

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I'd agree with most comments here, unfortunately I think this is a case of rushing. 3 weeks to fully cycle a tank does seem a little to quick, of course its possible depending on how it was done, also as already stated most freshwater bacteria won't live in saltwater, this together with the fact that you already have live stock would lead me to believe that the cycle isn't in fact complete.

As you've said rehoming the livestock which would be the best practice isn't possible unfortunately, which is a shame. I do feel that for the longevity and success of your reef this would be the ideal solution.

Now putting that all aside, it is normal for corals to behave oddly from time to time. Torch corals and hammer corals that have a number of heads will not always have all of them open simultaneously for a number of reasons, so I wouldn't worry (as there's nothing much you can do about it now) unless you see all heads closed up for a number of days. Although it would be advisable to test your parameters.

I have a torch that had 5 heads, it fell face down into the sand and was there however long before I came home from work. I repositioned it and one head died out.

That was about 2 months ago now and as already stated I'd suggest leaving the dead heads attached for a while as they can regrow, albeit at a very slow rate ime.

I've attached a photo of mine with the new growth circled. It's actually now got 6 heads ao seems to be doing weel and hopefully will continue to do so.

Good luck

Thanks for the advice. I'm starting to better understand their behavior. Today the two torches which are always blooming went into hiding but I could see the stream of excrement, within a few minutes the stream had blown away. A few hours later they were back out. Maybe they are retracting while they "do their business", I don't know. This time I caught them in the act but I'm worrying less since they do come back out. Hopefully the delivery will be tomorrow so I can finally check the parameters.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I believe this issue is resolved. It was feeding day and I deliberately gave extra food to the lighter torch. Within an hour it was a few shades darker though not as dark as the remaining 4 torches. My theory is that the white color means its less healthy and/or hungry, and that they go into hiding during the day when they need to defecate. I have no idea what is taking the delivery company so long but I haven't been able to test the water yet. It is very clear and the residents are active and growing so I'll just follow the engineering philosophy, "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" for now.

 

[Rilo]

I believe this issue is resolved. It was feeding day and I deliberately gave extra food to the lighter torch. Within an hour it was a few shades darker though not as dark as the remaining 4 torches. My theory is that the white color means its less healthy and/or hungry, and that they go into hiding during the day when they need to defecate. I have no idea what is taking the delivery company so long but I haven't been able to test the water yet. It is very clear and the residents are active and growing so I'll just follow the engineering philosophy, "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" for now.

Keep us updated.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Just as an update the light torch has now been in hiding for two days and is probably dying. I have no way to test the water because Lazada's new delivery company, Ninja van, still hasn't delivered! I will NEVER order from them again!

[edit] Since I posted this my wife made a few calls to Ninja Van and they sent another text to her that it is going to be delivered today. The other coral, the 4 remaining torches, 2 starfish, and 2 clownfish are OK but the water smells a bit like vinegar so I believe the PH is off.

 

[P-Dub]

Ralph, I am puzzled as to why you haven't shared the particulars about your system. Besides the parameters that you are unable to share due to the inability to test them, there is a plethora of information that we still need to be truly helpful. I am also curious as to why you apparently chose to not follow best practices in setting up your reef tank. I have provided links that would have been immensely helpful. I am not trying to bag on you, I am just curious as to why chose to not follow basic guidelines that have consistently produced positive results. I understand wanting to test different methods but why try and reinvent the wheel? We all desire to be successful in this hobby and we really want you to be as well but, it seems as though you are kind of winging it here with, likely, the ultimate demise of your system. Help me understand and help us help you by telling us EVERYTHING about your system.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Ralph, I am puzzled as to why you haven't shared the particulars about your system. Besides the parameters that you are unable to share due to the inability to test them, there is a plethora of information that we still need to be truly helpful. I am also curious as to why you apparently chose to not follow best practices in setting up your reef tank. I have provided links that would have been immensely helpful. I am not trying to bag on you, I am just curious as to why chose to not follow basic guidelines that have consistently produced positive results. I understand wanting to test different methods but why try and reinvent the wheel? We all desire to be successful in this hobby and we really want you to be as well but, it seems as though you are kind of winging it here with, likely, the ultimate demise of your system. Help me understand and help us help you by telling us EVERYTHING about your system.

I setup this tank before I found this forum with limited advice from a fish store. I am not deliberately avoiding best practices I'm just going with what I have available. My parameters are 39 Gallons, 30C (average temp), using Synthetic salt to bring ocean SG (1.018) to (1.022). Tank has been salt water for 22 days, it was fresh water for over a year. I originally added live sand, from the ocean, which I later replaced with beach sand due to detritus and the LFS saying it made my tank look dirty. I also originally started with Live Shrimp, typically sold as food, from the market, not knowing they couldn't handle salt water and used sea salt from the market which apparently is bad for fish. I did a nearly 100% water change with ocean water once I was notified of my mistake. It is my understanding that due to the high temperature here the nitrogen cycle, and most biological processes, of this tank will be faster. When I received this coral it was already dying and the 4 remaining torches are doing better than when I received them but I'm certain that the chemistry is still off due to the smell and the tanins (yellowish coloration). The tank is running with a custom filter, which has a U.V. sterilizer, white filter media, green filter media, and about 20 bio-balls. I was running originally with charcoal that I removed since the live rock should do the job of the charcoal with less tanins released into the water. Originally I started with a single 15W fluorescent light but the LFS said the coral not blooming meant I needed more light so I added a second 15W fluorescent light and the corals now bloom. I am also running a 5W PC fan on the tank connected with the lighting circuit to keep the water as cool as possible. I've been running, or helping to run, fresh water tanks for most of my life but this is my first salt water tank. The fact that I'm using live water (Ocean Water) guarantees that most of my levels will match the ocean. When I clean the filter I use purified water using a small RO filter that we use for pets, cleaning dishes and cooking. Due to the smell of the tank alone I believe the PH level is wrong which I can't fix without a means for testing the PH level. Currently I'm doing 10% water changes weekly with ocean water. I now believe that one of the torch corals was experiencing bleaching which feeding seemed to have alleviated but since it has now mostly retracted for 2 days I believe it is sick. I haven't tried an iodine dip yet which is my next priority if all of the tests come back positive, which only leaves the controversial option of adding antibiotics to the tank.

 

[P-Dub]

I setup this tank before I found this forum with limited advice from a fish store. I am not deliberately avoiding best practices I'm just going with what I have available. My parameters are 39 Gallons, 30C (average temp), using Synthetic salt to bring ocean SG (1.018) to (1.022). Tank has been salt water for 22 days, it was fresh water for over a year. I originally added live sand, from the ocean, which I later replaced with beach sand due to detritus and the LFS saying it made my tank look dirty. I also originally started with Live Shrimp, typically sold as food, from the market, not knowing they couldn't handle salt water and used sea salt from the market which apparently is bad for fish. I did a nearly 100% water change with ocean water once I was notified of my mistake. It is my understanding that due to the high temperature here the nitrogen cycle, and most biological processes, of this tank will be faster. When I received this coral it was already dying and the 4 remaining torches are doing better than when I received them but I'm certain that the chemistry is still off due to the smell and the tanins (yellowish coloration). The tank is running with a custom filter, which has a U.V. sterilizer, white filter media, green filter media, and about 20 bio-balls. I was running originally with charcoal that I removed since the live rock should do the job of the charcoal with less tanins released into the water. Originally I started with a single 15W fluorescent light but the LFS said the coral not blooming meant I needed more light so I added a second 15W fluorescent light and the corals now bloom. I am also running a 5W PC fan on the tank connected with the lighting circuit to keep the water as cool as possible. I've been running, or helping to run, fresh water tanks for most of my life but this is my first salt water tank. The fact that I'm using live water (Ocean Water) guarantees that most of my levels will match the ocean. When I clean the filter I use purified water using a small RO filter that we use for pets, cleaning dishes and cooking. Due to the smell of the tank alone I believe the PH level is wrong which I can't fix without a means for testing the PH level. Currently I'm doing 10% water changes weekly with ocean water. I now believe that one of the torch corals was experiencing bleaching which feeding seemed to have alleviated but since it has now mostly retracted for 2 days I believe it is sick. I haven't tried an iodine dip yet which is my next priority if all of the tests come back positive, which only leaves the controversial option of adding antibiotics to the tank.

-I STRONGLY advise you to read the Stickies that I linked to in my post #15.
-SG of saltwater for a reef tank should be 1.025.
-The beneficial bacteria in a freshwater system does not equate to the beneficial bacteria in a marine environment.
You need to dispense with the freshwater filter and change to marine filtration methods and media.
-The temperature of the tank has nominally to do with the success of your system cycling and only a small part of a relatively complex process. I cycled my rock, outdoors, in 35*C temperatures, in plastic bins for just under four months before knowing that the cycle had been completed and I then set-up the tank. It can be done in a shorter period of time but there is a specific process for that and I didn't want any ugly tank stage once I place the rock in my tank so I went the slow and steady route.
-Activated carbon will be one thing that actually eliminates water coloration and odor. I am certain your chemistry is way off as well.
-You haven't indicated what type of lighting and what color temperature or spectrum you are running for lighting.
-Do you have a sump?
-What is your flow rate and what type of pump do you run?
-Do you have a protein skimmer installed and if so what type.
-NEVER EVER run antibiotics in your display tank unless you want to guarantee to kill everything. Your biological filtration will be destroyed and everything else after that.
-Don't bother with an iodine dip as it will not matter unless your system is healthy and running properly. It decidedly is not.
I cannot assert strongly enough that you NEED to read the Stickies that I linked to in my post #15 and a whole lot more researching is necessary..

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

-I STRONGLY advise you to read the Stickies that I linked to in my post #15.
-SG of saltwater for a reef tank should be 1.025.
-The beneficial bacteria in a freshwater system does not equate to the beneficial bacteria in a marine environment.
You need to dispense with the freshwater filter and change to marine filtration methods and media.
-The temperature of the tank has nominally to do with the success of your system cycling and only a small part of a relatively complex process. I cycled my rock, outdoors, in 35*C temperatures, in plastic bins for just under four months before knowing that the cycle had been completed and I then set-up the tank. It can be done in a shorter period of time but there is a specific process for that and I didn't want any ugly tank stage once I place the rock in my tank so I went the slow and steady route.
-Activated carbon will be one thing that actually eliminates water coloration and odor. I am certain your chemistry is way off as well.
-You haven't indicated what type of lighting and what color temperature or spectrum you are running for lighting.
-Do you have a sump?
-What is your flow rate and what type of pump do you run?
-Do you have a protein skimmer installed and if so what type.
-NEVER EVER run antibiotics in your display tank unless you want to guarantee to kill everything. Your biological filtration will be destroyed and everything else after that.
-Don't bother with an iodine dip as it will not matter unless your system is healthy and running properly. It decidedly is not.
I cannot assert strongly enough that you NEED to read the Stickies that I linked to in my post #15 and a whole lot more researching is necessary..

Tests are in, its bad but not that bad > https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/test-results-are-in-and-its-not-looking-good-any-advice.633923/

I use a hydrometer to measure the SG, and these are known to have low readings so I'm not comfortable raising the SG much more. As for reading, I've read most of the articles that I was suggested to read but a lot of the advice I get is contradictory.

Either way, here are my results. They aren't really that bad but they aren't good either.

PH 8.4
Amonia 0.75ppm
Nitrate 40ppm

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

I should note the PH level is what has me most concerned. The Amonia level is high but considering the age of the tank, I beleive that will fix itself.

 

[P-Dub]

What test kits are you using? What information that you have read in the "Stickies" is 'contradictory'?
Your ammonia level is toxic. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php It should be undetectable before you place marine organisms in your tank.
Your pH is slightly elevated but fine. Better to be a tad high.
-What are your Calcium and Alkalinity levels?
-Activated carbon will be one thing that actually eliminates water coloration and odor. I am certain your chemistry is way off as well.
-You haven't indicated what type of lighting and what color temperature or spectrum you are running for lighting.
-Do you have a sump?
-What is your flow rate and what type of pump do you run?
-Do you have a protein skimmer installed and if so what type?

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

What test kits are you using? What information that you have read in the "Stickies" is 'contradictory'?

API Freshwater master test kit

Your ammonia level is toxic. It should be undetectable before you place marine organisms in your tank.
Your pH is slightly elevated but fine. Better to be a tad high.
-What are your Calcium and Alkalinity levels?

I have no idea, I don't have tests for Calcium or Alkalinity

-Activated carbon will be one thing that actually eliminates water coloration and odor. I am certain your chemistry is way off as well.

I was using charcoal. I can't think of any way to add an activated carbon filter to this system.

-You haven't indicated what type of lighting and what color temperature or spectrum you are running for lighting.

Just standard florescent lighting 2X15W tubes

-Do you have a sump?

No

-What is your flow rate and what type of pump do you run?

I have no idea, I believe its about 10-15W and it is a bit too big for the tank from what I recall.

-Do you have a protein skimmer installed and if so what type?

No, just the filter


Frankly you are just frustrating me to the point where I think I should just fill the tank with gasoline, set it on fire, and call it a fail!

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

API Freshwater master test kit


I have no idea, I don't have tests for Calcium or Alkalinity




I was using charcoal. I can't think of any way to add an activated carbon filter to this system.



Just standard florescent lighting 2X15W tubes



No



I have no idea, I believe its about 10-15W and it is a bit too big for the tank from what I recall.



No, just the filter


Frankly you are just frustrating me to the point where I think I should just fill the tank with gasoline, set it on fire, and call it a fail!

I should also note that I've blown my budget on this tank. I've already spent hundreds of dollars on it and its getting nowhere. It will be 6 months at least before I can renovate the house and the floor can't hold a sump, it can barely hold the 40 gallon tank. Throwing hundreds of more dollars at a dying tank with very little livestock is NOT in my plans. If this doesn't survive, so be it. This is the ONLY salt water tank that has lasted this long in the town that I live, as far as I know, and I'm right near the ocean. There are no supplies here and it takes nearly a month to get supplies delivered. The fact that it has lasted this long is a miracle.

 

[Ralph Ritoch]

Last but not least, there is no replacing this tank. The fish store has no more salt water fish or coral and if it can't survive 6 months without a protein skimmer and sump than its doomed! I was actually considering switching to led lighting but since you insist that this tank is going to die there is no reason to buy one!

 

[ScottR]

API Freshwater master test kit


I have no idea, I don't have tests for Calcium or Alkalinity




I was using charcoal. I can't think of any way to add an activated carbon filter to this system.



Just standard florescent lighting 2X15W tubes



No



I have no idea, I believe its about 10-15W and it is a bit too big for the tank from what I recall.



No, just the filter


Frankly you are just frustrating me to the point where I think I should just fill the tank with gasoline, set it on fire, and call it a fail!

If you’re using plain old fluorescent tubes, those are not going to get you anywhere in a reef tank. If they’re from your freshwater setup from before, you’ll have to ditch them and get lighting meant for a reef tank since you’re keeping corals.