Torn between two methods

[USMA36]

i have recently been doing a ton of research on the Triton method. I was turned on to it after watching the BRS 160 video. It sounds awesome especially the part about limited water changes, and as far as I can tell yields positive results (at least in the short term) I don’t so much mind carrying buckets, but adding water during a water change seems to really stresses out both the fish and the corals. So I was just about ready to pull the trigger and do the icp testing and pick up the core 7 kit. Now today I watch the Aqua Box MACNA presentation that aired on YouTube filmed by BRS. Their take is almost the exact opposite of Triton. Rely mostly on water changes, filter socks, super clean sand bed, chemical filtration such as gfo and carbon, and no refugium. Whereas Triton relies on no water changes, no filter socks, a loaded refugium, and lots of dosing. What’s the right way to go? How do I decide what’s right for my fairly new 6 month old 120 (total volume) mixed reef system? It’s a big fork in the road and I’d rather not reverse course once I choose a path.

 

[Xclusive Reef]

I am kinda in the same boat as you between triton and aquaforest. I don't mind doing the water changes. I just want best for tank somit will look and grow at it's best. I think I am going with aquaforest as I have seen some of people's tanks that I trust and it looks good. Triton is just a name for something that people been doing for many years. I have a reefer I know that does calcium reactor and does not do water changes. I suggest honestly look at cost vs what you need. Cause at the end of the day it all work the same. Do research, there are flows with any system, triton is not perfect either.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

There are lots of different ways to keep a reef, and none are, apparently, "best".

I'll just add that water changes need not be stressful at all. Many of us change water slowly and automatically, several or many times per day. I changed 1% daily over a bunch of 15 minute periods each day. With that type of water change, you need not even match anything in the new salt water to the tank and there's no stress.

 

[Xclusive Reef]

There are lots of different ways to keep a reef, and none are, apparently, "best".

I'll just add that water changes need not be stressful at all. Many of us change water slowly and automatically, several or many times per day. I changed 1% daily over a bunch of 15 minute periods each day. With that type of water change, you need not even match anything in the new salt water to the tank and there's no stress.

nice i wish i had that option but live in a apartment and just don't have the room

 

[d2mini]

I do the same as Randy. Very small water changes using a GHL Doser 2.1. It changes something like 57ml 150x per day for a total of 2.5g or approx 2% per day.
You just need the room to store a container of saltwater.

I've done Triton and it's ok, you just have to be careful with it. My fuge got all out of balance and wreaked havoc on my display.
I'm back to a standard Berlin sump with refugium, and two part temporarily while I put together the equipment to run a calcium reactor.

 

[tsav87]

Many successful reefs were ran and are still run before Triton ever hit the scene.

I will say this, Triton wants to sell you goods and services, Aqua Box's approx doesn't require their company at all.

 

[tsav87]

Call and talk to Jack at Brightwell Aquatics, he will set you straight.

 

[Xclusive Reef]

Call and talk to Jack at Brightwell Aquatics, he will set you straight.

And what exactly will joe say? Curious

 

[tsav87]

Triton has no way to test for organics that will build up in the system.

They have 1 machine and with all the tests coming in daily, there is no way they have time to calibrate the machine after every test.

A bunch of other solid reasons. Like I said, call Jack and he will explain.

I spoke with him in length at MACNA this year.

 

[tsav87]

And no, you don't have to buy anything from brightwell to have a successful reef.

 

[Xclusive Reef]

There are lots of different ways to keep a reef, and none are, apparently, "best".

I'll just add that water changes need not be stressful at all. Many of us change water slowly and automatically, several or many times per day. I changed 1% daily over a bunch of 15 minute periods each day. With that type of water change, you need not even match anything in the new salt water to the tank and there's no stress.

Randy I am new to all this. can you explain the water change thing as to no water changes? cause if someone is dosing 2/3 part, amino acids and whatever else doesn't all that get washed away with constant water changes? i thought the whole point was to get the elements the tank needs, stability and leave it..

 

[d2mini]

Triton has no way to test for organics that will build up in the system.

They have 1 machine and with all the tests coming in daily, there is no way they have time to calibrate the machine after every test.

A bunch of other solid reasons. Like I said, call Jack and he will explain.

I spoke with him in length at MACNA this year.

So he was explaining to you all the reasons not to use a competitor's products?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Triton is focusing on monitoring and controlling inorganic elements. Their concern with water change is if (as if often the case), the new salt water does not match your target level in the tank, each water change may raise or lower the levels of any particular element, and require more effort to get it back "under control".

I'm not sure that such tight control and monitoring is useful/desirable (relative to the trade offs of not doing water changes and/or spending the same amount of money on other aspects of aquarium husbandry), but over time as more folks use that method, we may get better info on its utility.

 

[d2mini]

Randy I am new to all this. can you explain the water change thing as to no water changes? cause if someone is dosing 2/3 part, amino acids and whatever else doesn't all that get washed away with constant water changes? i thought the whole point was to get the elements the tank needs, stability and leave it..

No more than if you were doing one large water change.
The biggest reason for water changes isn't to get rid of organics, but to replace trace elements. Doing this in one fell swoop weekly vs lots of tiny amounts daily doesn't make any difference

The difference with Triton (instead of water changes) is they've studied the data from countless number of tanks and came up with an average of how much of each element is used on a daily basis. With just water changes, it's like playing Pin The Tail on The Donkey as far accuracy of trace element replenishment.
For most tanks, their 4 bottles will keep you really close to NSW levels across the board, with just small adjustments needed occasionally.
And the large refugium helps export organics.

 

[tsav87]

So he was explaining to you all the reasons not to use a competitor's products?

As did Triton reps at MACNA.

Jack had a better argument with actual data.

 

[keddre]

I say it is up to you and what you will be able to keep up with long term. While I follow neither one, I found a method that works for me and that I can keep up with (minus when I make dumb mistakes)

 

[ATI North America]

For those of you contemplating a new program for your tank, we at ATI North America just brought over the ATI Essentials, Labs and Elements trio. It is similar to other options, however we test for Alkalinity and a number of other things (non ICP tests) that are not covered by the competition. We also include a prepaid shipping label with the Labs test.

Our Essentials line is only 3 products
Our ICP machine was physically modified to be more suitable for Saltwater
Our ICP machine is operated by a PHD
Every 3rd ICP test is a known industry standard used to validate the calibration of the machine. If it is out of tolerance it is fully calibrated.
Every ICP test is reviewed and hand notated by Dr Ben Funk
Adjustments to your dosing quantity is done based on your alkalinity. If it goes up dose less, if it goes down dose more. Test daily at the same time per day until equilibrium is met.

Let me know if there are any questions about our system I can address, if not I simply bow out of your discussion so as not to create disruption.

Cheers

 

[beaslbob]

glad to see these debates.

For years and years I have been advocating against water changes for maintaining aquariums. Sure they were one time emergency type things but as routine maintenance no.

What happens is the aquarium ends up to a point where the amount of build up between changes is removed by the water change. So if you replace 1/10 the water the aquarium builds up to 10 times the change between water changes. 1/20 20 times, 1/5 5 times, 1/100 100 times and so on.

the really really important thing is to get the rate of change a slow as possible hopefully 0. So that the aquarium is just maintaining itself and water changes are not relevant.

With nitrates, co2, ammonia, potassium, plant life (macro) algaes do that nicely.

Getting calcium, alk, mag is fairly well known. (or is that Farley?)

Hopefully all the small amounts of stuff are replaced with feeding.

But one thing is sure, water changes will delay but not prevent build ups of changes of anything.

my .02

 

[Fringe09]

For those of you contemplating a new program for your tank, we at ATI North America just brought over the ATI Essentials, Labs and Elements trio. It is similar to other options, however we test for Alkalinity and a number of other things (non ICP tests) that are not covered by the competition. We also include a prepaid shipping label with the Labs test.

Our Essentials line is only 3 products
Our ICP machine was physically modified to be more suitable for Saltwater
Our ICP machine is operated by a PHD
Every 3rd ICP test is a known industry standard used to validate the calibration of the machine. If it is out of tolerance it is fully calibrated.
Every ICP test is reviewed and hand notated by Dr Ben Funk
Adjustments to your dosing quantity is done based on your alkalinity. If it goes up dose less, if it goes down dose more. Test daily at the same time per day until equilibrium is met.

Let me know if there are any questions about our system I can address, if not I simply bow out of your discussion so as not to create disruption.

Cheers

Thank you for chiming in! Your product is simpler to understand and follow.

What are you thoughts of the requirements of a refugium?

 

[tsav87]

glad to see these debates.

For years and years I have been advocating against water changes for maintaining aquariums. Sure they were one time emergency type things but as routine maintenance no.

What happens is the aquarium ends up to a point where the amount of build up between changes is removed by the water change. So if you replace 1/10 the water the aquarium builds up to 10 times the change between water changes. 1/20 20 times, 1/5 5 times, 1/100 100 times and so on.

the really really important thing is to get the rate of change a slow as possible hopefully 0. So that the aquarium is just maintaining itself and water changes are not relevant.

With nitrates, co2, ammonia, potassium, plant life (macro) algaes do that nicely.

Getting calcium, alk, mag is fairly well known. (or is that Farley?)

Hopefully all the small amounts of stuff are replaced with feeding.

But one thing is sure, water changes will delay but not prevent build ups of changes of anything.

my .02

For those of you contemplating a new program for your tank, we at ATI North America just brought over the ATI Essentials, Labs and Elements trio. It is similar to other options, however we test for Alkalinity and a number of other things (non ICP tests) that are not covered by the competition. We also include a prepaid shipping label with the Labs test.

Our Essentials line is only 3 products
Our ICP machine was physically modified to be more suitable for Saltwater
Our ICP machine is operated by a PHD
Every 3rd ICP test is a known industry standard used to validate the calibration of the machine. If it is out of tolerance it is fully calibrated.
Every ICP test is reviewed and hand notated by Dr Ben Funk
Adjustments to your dosing quantity is done based on your alkalinity. If it goes up dose less, if it goes down dose more. Test daily at the same time per day until equilibrium is met.

Let me know if there are any questions about our system I can address, if not I simply bow out of your discussion so as not to create disruption.

Cheers

To both of you. What about ORGANIC buildups?

Wouldn't you end up with a soup of organic compounds after some time?